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Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread 
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Werra wrote:
The second salvo also only came when Alex made that comm call to the Lieutenant(?). Could be a coincidence, but to me it all strongly indicates that their assailants desperately wanted to remain hidden from the combatants.


Its more likely the assailants were just hitting the biggest pieces again.

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Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:22 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
GeoModder wrote:
Werra wrote:
The second salvo also only came when Alex made that comm call to the Lieutenant(?). Could be a coincidence, but to me it all strongly indicates that their assailants desperately wanted to remain hidden from the combatants.


Its more likely the assailants were just hitting the biggest pieces again.


Could it be that the assailants were the Historians?


Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:18 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
hi hi

Murph wrote:
Could it be that the assailants were the Historians?
It's a popular theory, and there's certainly no concrete evidence to suggest they didn't. There's really not a whole lot of evidence one way or another, but the Historians do seem pretty paranoid, and it's hard not to feel likewise in return.

The big unanswered question usually boils down to: "Why?"


Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:02 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
It seems to be a ship that wants to remain hidden from both sides. One more Umiak ship wouldn't make a difference to the Loroi and the Umiak wouldn't much care about a Loroi affiliated one either.

Personally I believe a yet unknown species send out that ship.

Spoiler: show
Mostly because I predict the Bellarmines data to be key in the investigation and the Historian to be the one digging it out of there.
We'll see in the 40s.


Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:14 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Well a hidden Umiak ship would be motivated to prevent a strange ship hailing the Loroi and tipping their hand and letting the Loroi knowing they were there, even if they were planning on showing themselves soon, never tip you hand too soon.


Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:19 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
icekatze wrote:
hi hi

Murph wrote:
Could it be that the assailants were the Historians?
It's a popular theory, and there's certainly no concrete evidence to suggest they didn't. There's really not a whole lot of evidence one way or another, but the Historians do seem pretty paranoid, and it's hard not to feel likewise in return.

The big unanswered question usually boils down to: "Why?"

They're on the side of the Loroi, and the Loroi are losing. I'm gonna assume the Historians are well aware of that fact.
Perhaps they offered the Umiak a deal: Leave historian space alone, and we'll supply you with the technology and tactical data you need to end this war decisively.


Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:16 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Thing is, the Umiak have already proven they won't leave Historian space alone. The Historians haven't even reconquered all of their former territory yet on the Umiak since their invasion back in 2139 CE. And that was 20 years ago.

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Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:51 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
GeoModder wrote:
Thing is, the Umiak have already proven they won't leave Historian space alone. The Historians haven't even reconquered all of their former territory yet on the Umiak since their invasion back in 2139 CE. And that was 20 years ago.

That invasion could be considered part of the larger Umiak invasion of Loroi territory. If the Historians sell out what is effectively all of Loroi space, that would give the Umiak all they need in terms of new worlds for new materiel, possibly enough for them to agree to leave Historian space alone for the immediate future, which would give the historians enough time to enact other plans. (To employ their superior technology and so forth)


Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:45 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
If the Historians were planning on selling out the Loroi anyway, why going with an alliance with the Union then? And why the technology transfer, ensuring the Union fleet can hold its own against the Umiak onslaught that much better?

No, to me this betrayal theory sounds too farfetched.

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Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:50 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
GeoModder wrote:
If the Historians were planning on selling out the Loroi anyway, why going with an alliance with the Union then? And why the technology transfer, ensuring the Union fleet can hold its own against the Umiak onslaught that much better?

No, to me this betrayal theory sounds too farfetched.

The immediate alliance most likely came because they'd just been invaded and needed backup immediately. Possibly they expected the Loroi to be more effective allies. Perhaps the Loroi comparatively lackluster performance in implementing new technology only became apparent as the Historians tried to help them upgrade their fleet.


Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:06 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
hi hi

Maybe the Historians always planned to betray the Loroi and are just trying to buy time until they finish building their doomsday superweapon? It's hard to know what they're really thinking, they're pretty mysterious.


Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:48 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Another option is that the Historians aren't as strong as they would like everybody to believe. Maybe they don't have the manpower for an actual war, for example. It's not certain that they are traitors.


Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:02 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
hi hi

The Historians certainly have a technological edge over the other powers, this is pretty clear insider information. But they also readily ceded territory when the Umiak invaded. Whether they would like people to believe it or not, or if they actually have strength or not, they're not really presenting themselves as strong.

They might not be traitors, but it's still hard to trust someone you know nothing about.


Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:56 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
icekatze wrote:
hi hi

The Historians certainly have a technological edge over the other powers, this is pretty clear insider information. But they also readily ceded territory when the Umiak invaded. Whether they would like people to believe it or not, or if they actually have strength or not, they're not really presenting themselves as strong.

They might not be traitors, but it's still hard to trust someone you know nothing about.


Tech edge doesn't always win if the tactics, the qualifications of the powers to be, or military might can work.

Just using a video game example, just about every race has an tech edge over Space Orks and Tyranids in Warhammer 40,000, but no one has been ale to wipe them out.

Eldar are one of the most technologically advanced races in the game but are still a dying race.

Tau also have a better grasp of tech then the humans, but have vastly smaller numbers and territory.


Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:33 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Since these races are semi-based on the races in Masters of Orion, which race do the Historians represent again?


Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:25 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Here's my theory:

The Historians did shoot down the Bellarmine, but not because they had anything against the ship or Humanity as a whole. Instead, they have been attempting to prevent any instance of contact between Humanity and the warring powers of the area, by shooting down any ships that might reach the other side of the Empty Quarter. There is precedence for this; the Historians have gone out of their way to protect the Pol, which lie within their own borders. Perhaps this is their only means of protecting Humanity, as they lie well outside the Historians' own borders. But ships have been leaking through because of the demands war has placed on them.


Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:46 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
GeoModder wrote:
No, to me this betrayal theory sounds too farfetched.


The thing that makes me doubt it is the fact that the Pocket Historian asked permission to be installed, it could probably have proceeded without asking. It’s a detail that counts (for me at least).


Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:12 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Ithekro wrote:
Since these races are semi-based on the races in Masters of Orion, which race do the Historians represent again?

The Orions.

Technically advanced, and not interacting with races anymore (likely having left the galaxy), a few highly automated machines / constructs are running a defence of their world, also no expansionist drive. And very few attendands, more to make the other races feel comfortable than having a real use for biological bodies anymore.

Although the historians do seems to be more like librarians of the Soia knowledge.
Maybe they are just that, and as such very pacifist. IMO, this is also supported by them still collecting information, as "Historian vessels continue to crisscross the breadth of known space and beyond, but most of what they learn is kept to themselves".
And likely their tactic in case of losing the war, is to pack up everything and just leave.
Like they did when the Umiak invaded some systems.

They do not seem to be very planet-bound for their economy, nor for population.
They do seem to be region-bound, likely because they are defending and protecting something there, e.g. the Pol; but in case of defeat I think they'll just pack things up and are gone.

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Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:19 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Ithekro wrote:
Since these races are semi-based on the races in Masters of Orion, which race do the Historians represent again?


Four arms and advanced technology? The Psilons.


Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:36 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Zarya wrote:
GeoModder wrote:
No, to me this betrayal theory sounds too farfetched.


The thing that makes me doubt it is the fact that the Pocket Historian asked permission to be installed, it could probably have proceeded without asking. It’s a detail that counts (for me at least).

Then again, it didn't ask permission to go rooting through the Bellarmine data storages.


Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:12 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
I think it recognised thast asking permission builds trust, and that this would be a much better start than activating at a suprising time.
It already made clear it does not need permission, as it was able to put the necessary files on the datapad, while the datapad was OFF ("power-off intrusion").

Through the permission, Alex has been pre-warned that a pocket-Historian is installed, and could activate at times of urgency. This allows at urgent times to omit the "What are you? Where do you come from? Who are you?" and all the "w" questions which just distract from what needs to be done with urgency (except for the "Why do you want me to do ...").
It also provides Alex with a way to contact the pocket Historian without asking loudly for it to activate.
It also prevents suspicions because a hidden installation has been found at an awkward time. (part of the "trusssst me" measures)

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Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:07 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
There is a significant difference between reading data from a device and writing to it.

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Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:13 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
There is a significant difference between reading data from a device and writing to it.


Yah. If you're decapping chips and imaging them down to atoms to do the reverse engineering then you know what was on them but they won't be usable afterwards. (I'm pretty sure an electron microscope works on Flash memory and it will definitely work on RAM if you keep the power on while decapping the chip, so we can posit some alien microscopy that works on micro magnetic memories such as FRAM).

Finding out more about the providence of Alex's new tablet would be interesting. Did a Historian construct find it in the wreck and helpfully turn it over to the Loroi? Does the historian construct in the flowerpot have physical manipulators that the Loroi don't know about? Is the firmware that turns of the 22nd century WiFi buggy and exploitable? Did someone find a charger for it?

(Further note: you can also very delicately grind your way up from the 'bottom' of the silicon die to get close to the live transistor layers without breaking the chip. This technique has been used in attacking the encryption keys for smart card ICs.)


Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:16 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
It seems terribly isolating to me that the Loroi can't communicate readily with their 99.9% of all alien species, has there been no concentrated effort to make some sort of telepathic translator device for non telepaths to "hear" and "speak" with Loroi telepathically? If not, why not and how would the Loroi population and leadership react to such an endeavor?

Seems kind of odd that an entire galactic spanning empire wouldn't have thrown their economic, science and industrial sectors behind some kind of effort to accomplish this sort of thing. Healthy communication between friends is kind of important and the Loroi do have access to all the big scary guns.


Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:10 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Why would they? The Loroi can hear alien thoughts just fine and it's not like they evolved in an eco-system of telepaths. They've always been the only species with that ability. Humans don't expend serious effort to teach animals language either.


Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:42 pm
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