Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thread

[Arioch]

Looking over the Umiak ships again, and I noticed something I find unusual. The weapons guide section talks about the Umiak using their Morat type of blasters similar to the Loroi/Delrias verrsions....but none of the Umiak ships listed are armed with blasters. Only Plasma Focuses.

Umiak don't really have ship classes, only general types that are customized by local engineers according to their specific needs and available supply (notice the entries are labeled "Typical Weaponry"). Morat weapons are not "standard" loadout for Umiak vessels, but the Umiak will use whatever is available. It's not uncommon to see Umiak vessels on the Tinza front (which is opposite Morat territory) armed with Morat-made equipment.

[boldilocks]

It's strange that such a species can also function at such a high productive capacity. Usually it's standardization that allows for mass production.

[Werra]

I guess the Umiak have a lot of starship engineers that can take a blueprint and alter it to make it work with whatever parts are on hand. Though it seems that a lot of their ships should have the kinds of birthing issues that new hardware is plaqued with.

[dragoongfa]

Standardization of equipment is what allows for mass production but ship building is far more than just building standardized ship models in a production line. Theoretically speaking if one ordered 100 destroyers of the same class from 4 different shipyards of equal capacity then the shipyards should be able to each produce 25 ships at the same time; however things are far more complicated than that. There exist a plethora of reasons as to why some shipyards would be able to complete their production runs far faster or far slower than their competitors. Personnel experience, material throughput, internal organization, adherence to safety protocols; you name it and it will probably affect the production runs of each independent shipyard. Not to mention the quality of each ship built despite the fact that they should be 'identical'.

What the Umiak seem to have done is to do away with overall standardization throughout the fleet in favor of localized rapid manufacturing. They probably split their various shipbuilding potential into several localized constructors (we are talking clusters of star systems whose purpose in meant to build ships) and ordered ships from all of them saying : 'We want as many ships you can make, of these classes, with performance characteristics that fall within these parameters. We don't care how you do it but we want them by this amount of time.'

Each constructor would then begin to design and produce their lots with all means at their disposal. Ship quality and quantity would vary greatly depending on the constructor; with certain constructors being able only to produce certain small classes of ships due to the industrial capacity afforded to them.

This sounds chaotic but it is faster than simply having each constructor adhere to rigid standardization. Add the fact that the Umiak don't care about repairing or upgrading ships then each constructor simply cares about pumping as many ships out as possible without care about after factory improvements. Any and all improvements are for subsequent production runs and since central command accepts any and all ships produced (provided that they are within certain loose parameters) then it allows constructors that would otherwise be considered 'sub-standard' to produce ships that the navy is all to happy to spend in attrition attacks.

[Werra]

Sounds like a sensible system. Except that starships are complicated and need to handle tremendous energies. Nobody would expect any aircraft manufacturer to design fighters quickly and individually for every charge. I think there needs to be a few ship layouts and skeletons, which are standardized and form the design core of every Umiak starship. Even then design flaws could easily happen and prove fatal.

[dragoongfa]

Sounds like a sensible system. Except that starships are complicated and need to handle tremendous energies. Nobody would expect any aircraft manufacturer to design fighters quickly and individually for every charge. I think there needs to be a few ship layouts and skeletons, which are standardized and form the design core of every Umiak starship. Even then design flaws could easily happen and prove fatal.

If we take the war as a WW2 analogue and the various constructors as aircraft manufacturing companies then I the end result would be like this:

Low tier companies would design and build biplanes; obsolete warmachines but still useful for a variety of roles and 'light' duties. See the Gloster Gladiator, Fairey Swordfish and other less known biplanes of the war. Early in the war they still could pull their weight. Later they were heavily outclassed but still useful in order to 'plug holes' and give the enemy something unimportant to shoot at. The Soviets used biplanes as night bombers, the 'Night Witches' regiment becoming renowned for their effectiveness and the tactic was useful even in the Korean war. There would probably be plenty of biplanes flying around as each new company founded/built in the war would have to start with something simple in order to build localized experience before eventually switching to more complex planes. Provided one doesn't care about loses and considers all planes as expendable then these cheap war machines would be welcome.

Mid tier companies would design and build the equivalent of Hurricanes, BF-109, P-36 Hawks and etc. Rugged warmachines that are good in holding the 'line' and killing the enemy. Becoming obsolete in later generations but newer production runs would each improve on them. These would carry the brunt of the war fighting; provided that their production runs are simple enough then these kind of planes would be the majority of the production.

High tier companies would design and build the equivalent of Spitfires, P-51 Mustangs, Fw-190 and etc. High tier warmachines that are to be hoarded for important operations. Their more expensive and more specialized production needs would mean that relatively few companies would be able to produce them but their higher quality means that they are worth the wait and fewer numbers. The 'Gatecrusher divisions' in the comic are probably made up of these kind of warmachines.

Top tier companies would design and build the state of the art planes. Jet planes and developing cutting edge technology which would then be defused to other companies in order to improve their own production runs.

Provided that one considers each warmachine as expendable and personnel casualties as inconsequential then the design flaws we would consider fatal would then be considered as acceptable risks.

[Arioch]

There are different levels of standardization. Things like ammunition, missiles and torpedoes, and small craft need to be standardized, as it's not practical to make custom ammunition for each different vessel (though the Umiak have a huge number of different standards that would drive a non-Umiak logistician nuts). Components like engines and drives and weapons and computer cores also need to be built to some kind of standard, so that ships can take standard fuel and supplies, and replace damaged or worn out parts (though here again, the Umiak idea of "standard" is a bit out there). These are all things that we expect to be built in planetside factories on mostly-automated assembly lines, so some uniformity is to be expected.

But assembling these components in an orbital shipyard is a process that doesn't necessarily benefit from uniformity. Starships aren't built on an assembly line. Using uniform classes reduces design time, but the Umiak have no shortage of engineering talent, as you might expect of a race whose very language requires one to do fairly complicated math in its head. I imagine that an Umiak vessel's construction starts with the core components on a basic framework, with a particular type template in mind, and then the hull sort of "grows" out from there. The construction team usually includes some of the senior officers who will crew the ship, and several of the engineers who designed and built it will stay aboard afterward as part of the ship's engineering staff. The advantage of doing it this way is that each ship can be customized to what the command crew wants, what components are available (production doesn't need to stop when there is a bottleneck shortage of certain components), and even what space in the shipyard is available. I imagine two teams constructing two ships in a shared berth, in a race to build out faster and farther than the other, with the slower team having to design around the shrinking available space. A team will have an allotment of resources for their ship, but of course they will be scrounging to get more.

Once in commission, the supply of replacement parts will be limited (as the Umiak prefer to use available resources to build new ships), and so ships in the field must be prepared to scrounge for parts, which will often mean cannibalizing damaged vessels, so it's very useful to have engineers on board that know how to design and build a ship from scratch. It also provides significant pressure for the crew to keep their ship in top operating condition, lest they be marked as sub-optimal and cannibalized by the rest of the fleet.

It's kind of nuts, but that's the Umiak.

[gaerzi]

developing cutting edge technology which would then be defused to other companies

Diffusing: spreading, scattering
Defusing: calming, rendering inert

[dragoongfa]

developing cutting edge technology which would then be defused to other companies

Diffusing: spreading, scattering
Defusing: calming, rendering inert

Nice catch and I will not edit it so you can keep the bragging rights

[wrwallaceii]

OK... this will seem wierd or even sick but, what do umiak/bugs/shells taste like? I am imagining them to be similar to crustaceans that live in earth's oceans or exoskeleton surface bugs that are regular diets with some of earth cultures. If in the aftermath of battle could humans or Loroi survive during a food shortage until able to resupply. Lobster and crab ar really very similar large sea borne bugs... I don't wish to offend but humans have eaten dead humans in order to surive. just saying.

[StarCruiser]

Once starvation comes into the picture - anything (and everything) is possible...

[Arioch]

viewtopic.php?p=35856#p35856

[wrwallaceii]

well tbere goes that fan fiction episode idea.

[Mk_C]

well tbere goes that fan fiction episode idea.

"Stringy and acrid" does not equal "inedible" - it only means "gourmet taste", and we already have Tempo enjoying stuff that Talon and Spiral find straight up toxic. Don't let your dreams be dreams - sentientivorous feasting on the flesh of pseudoarthropod foes is a noice if a touch barbaric display and deserves to be portrayed in all of it's glory.

[Arioch]

well tbere goes that fan fiction episode idea.

"Stringy and acrid" does not equal "inedible" - it only means "gourmet taste", and we already have Tempo enjoying stuff that Talon and Spiral find straight up toxic. Don't let your dreams be dreams - sentientivorous feasting on the flesh of pseudoarthropod foes is a noice if a touch barbaric display and deserves to be portrayed in all of it's glory.

He didn't ask if they were inedible, he asked what they tasted like.

If you're willing to eat your own dead, you're willing to eat anything. The Nissek are the only group here that engages in this sort of practice, and they haven't had the opportunity.

[MBehave]

How do the Umiak deal with the problems that arise from non standard construction...
Much of the design around modern warships and fighters is actually finding things that interfere with each other...
Electronics with too long wiring being disrupted by its own radar due to induction, warship slanting enough when under full power the forward section creates a radar shadow forward of the ship.
Despite humans understanding of engineering increasing and even computer simulations allowing problems to be found before physical prototypes complications and unforeseen problems are becoming more common and resulting in longer research and development times.

You can take all the same technology and equipment and attempt to make a new fighter Jet using all the same parts from a old and just modifying the airframe and placement and you will still run into many problems that were not foreseen.

How do the Umiak avoid situations like these when they build ships willy nilly, or do they just accept that there will be % of failed designs?

[Arioch]

Things like torpedoes and other ammunition will need to have some standards, but the Umiak will have more standards than they strictly need, because they're a little nuts (what might be a logistical nightmare for other species is an amusing exercise in micromanagement for the obsessive-compulsive Umiak). Umiak don't use fighters, but small vessels like gunboats that can be mass-produced on an assembly line will also have uniform types. You may notice in examples such as on page 71 that all the gunboats of this tender's clutch are of the same type.

And things like starship components and weapons will also need some kind of standard.

But I think things as large as a starship (and which doesn't have to worry about aerodynamics) that are assembled from standard components can be assembled in pretty much any way that satisfies the available resources and space, as long as it moves forward when you turn on the engines and the weapons have a clear field of fire. They have some archetypes, but they can't help customizing them. I expect the hulls are mostly made of some kind of composite material that's more or less 3D printed, so having each ship in a class being identical isn't a huge advantage for them. Maintenance is mostly done by the engineers who became part of the crew. If something breaks that can't be fixed, the ship will most likely get cannibalized for parts by the other ships in the squadron.

Electronics with too long wiring being disrupted by its own radar due to induction, warship slanting enough when under full power the forward section creates a radar shadow forward of the ship.

I think these are unlikely. All the electrical systems in a starship will have to be hardened against EMP from the ultra-high energy weapons in use; I don't think a simple radar pulse could frazzle them. A spacecraft is unlikely to "slant" under power; if the center of gravity was off from the drives, it would start to tumble. Regardless, sensors tend to be redundant and at numerous sites around the ship, as a hull of any shape will block the line of sight of at least some of the sensors from a 360 degree view.

[MBehave]

I gave examples of problems in modern systems caused by humans failing to realize a problem even exists or a hardware conflict that was not an issue except under very specific situations not a 1:1 comparison.
This is a problem that has increased as technology has increased in complexity and a single human is less and less able to grasp the entirety of a projects complexities creating blind spots.

Things like torpedoes and other ammunition will need to have some standards, but the Umiak will have more standards than they strictly need, because they're a little nuts (what might be a logistical nightmare for other species is an amusing exercise in micromanagement for the obsessive-compulsive Umiak). Umiak don't use fighters, but small vessels like gunboats that can be mass-produced on an assembly line will also have uniform types. You may notice in examples such as on page 71 that all the gunboats of this tender's clutch are of the same type.

And things like starship components and weapons will also need some kind of standard.

But I think things as large as a starship (and which doesn't have to worry about aerodynamics) that are assembled from standard components can be assembled in pretty much any way that satisfies the available resources and space, as long as it moves forward when you turn on the engines and the weapons have a clear field of fire. They have some archetypes, but they can't help customizing them. I expect the hulls are mostly made of some kind of composite material that's more or less 3D printed, so having each ship in a class being identical isn't a huge advantage for them. Maintenance is mostly done by the engineers who became part of the crew. If something breaks that can't be fixed, the ship will most likely get cannibalized for parts by the other ships in the squadron.

Electronics with too long wiring being disrupted by its own radar due to induction, warship slanting enough when under full power the forward section creates a radar shadow forward of the ship.

I think these are unlikely. All the electrical systems in a starship will have to be hardened against EMP from the ultra-high energy weapons in use; I don't think a simple radar pulse could frazzle them. A spacecraft is unlikely to "slant" under power; if the center of gravity was off from the drives, it would start to tumble. Regardless, sensors tend to be redundant and at numerous sites around the ship, as a hull of any shape will block the line of sight of at least some of the sensors from a 360 degree view.

[Sweforce]

Maybe the Umiak build ships out of Lego? Standardised components easy to slap together in such a way that the resulting ships look non standarised but the components are easily interchangable? Plug and play all the way! That would also come in handy when heavily damaged ships are stripped down for parts.

[SVlad]

Do Umiak molt when grows?