Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[CatColonist]

I noticed on the Caste Titles page that lowest rank for Nedatan caretakers is Detair Mogin which is an O4 rank. Is the Detair caste like the Torrai where they start out as a different caste before becoming Detair? If so, what castes do they usually come from and how do they become Detair? Do Detair ever get promoted out of the caste and become Torrai?

You've said that Torrai on the administrative track never take command positions. Do Torrai on the command track ever transfer to the administrative track? I could see an older captain wanting to take a quieter planetside job. If so, would these Torrai be able to transfer back to the command track if there was a need for commanders?

[Arioch]

I noticed on the Caste Titles page that lowest rank for Nedatan caretakers is Detair Mogin which is an O4 rank. Is the Detair caste like the Torrai where they start out as a different caste before becoming Detair? If so, what castes do they usually come from and how do they become Detair? Do Detair ever get promoted out of the caste and become Torrai?

Yes, they're a bit like the Torrai in that sense. Detair are usually elderly Loroi warriors and may come from any caste, though they are most often Soroin or one of the support castes. Sometimes it is a sort of "promotion" for a warrior who has spent her life in the raising and education of female warriors, but sometimes she is a veteran from other areas of expertise who has had a spiritual calling of sorts. In this sense it is like a monastic order, and joining is like a form of retirement or shutting oneself away from the tribulations and politics of war and warrior culture. Many are near the end of their natural lifespans, and so may be over 300 years old. The selection process is steeped in tradition and ritual, and it's not very straightforward who is chosen. In one sense it's a prestigious reward for a life of service, but in others it is accepting a life of humility -- they are essentially handmaidens to the males, and they give up most of the trappings of warrior status (ex.: they cut their hair short like a civilian). Elderly warriors go to the Detair to spend their remaining years in service... and to be around lots of hot young males. (Detair are normally sterile, either naturally or otherwise.)

Detair are not usually called back into active duty... but there are the inevitable kung fu legends of aging warrior nuns from fallen clans who wander the land exacting vengeance upon their enemies.

You've said that Torrai on the administrative track never take command positions. Do Torrai on the command track ever transfer to the administrative track? I could see an older captain wanting to take a quieter planetside job. If so, would these Torrai be able to transfer back to the command track if there was a need for commanders?

There are plenty of "desk jobs" in the military, including the Torrai, and there's no restriction on who can take those jobs. Especially when it comes to important administrative jobs like magistrates, councilors and governors, these are frequently former "line" officers with command experience, and there's nothing preventing them from later returning to combat commands. The Sorimi track is something different: these are high-ranking clerks, essentially. The Sorimi is a fast-track into the Torrai for a (usually) younger warrior, but with a huge asterisk on her forehead; it's essentially a consolation prize for a warrior from a powerful and influential family but who hasn't got the aptitudes or temperament to make anything of herself in active military. There's no law preventing a Sorimi-track Torrai from being assigned to a combat position, and I suppose it's possible that a Sorimi might have a late bloom and suddenly discover that she's actually an amazing leader... but it's just not done under normal circumstances. It would be kind of like taking an entertainer who was awarded an honorary degree from a university and assigning him to a research team... the other members of the team would not be amused.

[Snoofman]

I noticed on the Caste Titles page that lowest rank for Nedatan caretakers is Detair Mogin which is an O4 rank. Is the Detair caste like the Torrai where they start out as a different caste before becoming Detair? If so, what castes do they usually come from and how do they become Detair? Do Detair ever get promoted out of the caste and become Torrai?

Yes, they're a bit like the Torrai in that sense. Detair are usually elderly Loroi warriors and may come from any caste, though they are most often Soroin or one of the support castes. Sometimes it is a sort of "promotion" for a warrior who has spent her life in the raising and education of female warriors, but sometimes she is a veteran from other areas of expertise who has had a spiritual calling of sorts. In this sense it is like a monastic order, and joining is like a form of retirement or shutting oneself away from the tribulations and politics of war and warrior culture. Many are near the end of their natural lifespans, and so may be over 300 years old. The selection process is steeped in tradition and ritual, and it's not very straightforward who is chosen. In one sense it's a prestigious reward for a life of service, but in others it is accepting a life of humility -- they are essentially handmaidens to the males, and they give up most of the trappings of warrior status (ex.: they cut their hair short like a civilian). Elderly warriors go to the Detair to spend their remaining years in service... and to be around lots of hot young males. (Detair are normally sterile, either naturally or otherwise.)

Detair are not usually called back into active duty... but there are the inevitable kung fu legends of aging warrior nuns from fallen clans who wander the land exacting vengeance upon their enemies.

You've said that Torrai on the administrative track never take command positions. Do Torrai on the command track ever transfer to the administrative track? I could see an older captain wanting to take a quieter planetside job. If so, would these Torrai be able to transfer back to the command track if there was a need for commanders?

There are plenty of "desk jobs" in the military, including the Torrai, and there's no restriction on who can take those jobs. Especially when it comes to important administrative jobs like magistrates, councilors and governors, these are frequently former "line" officers with command experience, and there's nothing preventing them from later returning to combat commands. The Sorimi track is something different: these are high-ranking clerks, essentially. The Sorimi is a fast-track into the Torrai for a (usually) younger warrior, but with a huge asterisk on her forehead; it's essentially a consolation prize for a warrior from a powerful and influential family but who hasn't got the aptitudes or temperament to make anything of herself in active military. There's no law preventing a Sorimi-track Torrai from being assigned to a combat position, and I suppose it's possible that a Sorimi might have a late bloom and suddenly discover that she's actually an amazing leader... but it's just not done under normal circumstances. It would be kind of like taking an entertainer who was awarded an honorary degree from a university and assigning him to a research team... the other members of the team would not be amused.

If I recall correctly, Emperor Greywind was not liked by many Torrais because they felt she did not earn her position, among other things. Since Greywind herself comes from an influential family, did she get the privilege of climbing the ranks through the Sorimi track?

[Arioch]

If I recall correctly, Emperor Greywind was not liked by many Torrais because they felt she did not earn her position, among other things. Since Greywind herself comes from an influential family, did she get the privilege of climbing the ranks through the Sorimi track?

No, Greywind came in as a senior Mizol. The top Mizol are Torrai -- as is the case for all the highest ranking members of each of the castes -- so no one begrudged her Torrai rank. She faced opposition as Azerain partly because she hadn't been a conventional field commander as all the previous holders of the office had been, partly because she had been Mizol specifically (there being some distrust of Mizol in general), and partly because it was well known that she planned to shake up the ante-bellum order with "radical" reforms (which is why she was elected... but not everyone was happy about that).

[CatColonist]

If I recall correctly, Emperor Greywind was not liked by many Torrais because they felt she did not earn her position, among other things. Since Greywind herself comes from an influential family, did she get the privilege of climbing the ranks through the Sorimi track?

No, Greywind came in as a senior Mizol. The top Mizol are Torrai -- as is the case for all the highest ranking members of each of the castes -- so no one begrudged her Torrai rank. She faced opposition as Azerain partly because she hadn't been a conventional field commander as all the previous holders of the office had been, partly because she had been Mizol specifically (there being some distrust of Mizol in general), and partly because it was well known that she planned to shake up the ante-bellum order with "radical" reforms (which is why she was elected... but not everyone was happy about that).

So what rank do support caste Torrai usually start out as? Would they go straight from their top caste rank to something like Torrai Sadait or Torrai Manneil? Or are there specific ranks for the support castes to be promoted to that aren't on the insider?

Also, how do Soroin and Tenoin usually enter administrative Torrai positions if most don't go through the Sorimi tack? Do they start out as field commanders and then transfer to desk jobs? Do they get promoted to higher admin positions in their original caste and then jump over the Sorimi position when they become Torrai?

[Arioch]

So what rank do support caste Torrai usually start out as? Would they go straight from their top caste rank to something like Torrai Sadait or Torrai Manneil? Or are there specific ranks for the support castes to be promoted to that aren't on the insider?

The titles listed in the Insider page are mostly concentrated among shipboard and fleet command titles, the ones you're likely to see standing around in the actual comic. There will be a huge number of other titles, too many to list or even figure out, especially since the warrior class also covers many government and civil positions that we consider civilian.

Each caste will have its own internal caste hierarchy, even if it doesn't have any kind of field operations command (even the Listel have a field research operations command). This is usually based around the various academies. An officer enters the caste hierarchy either through being a senior officer in an operational command (if there is one), or by rising as a member of academy faculty.

Caste hierarchy Torrai titles are different for each caste, but in general they look something like this:
O-5 - O-6 Division Director / Assistant Dean
O-7 Academy Dean
O-8 Commandant of Cadets
O-9 Academy Superintendent
O-9 Caste Deputy Chief of Staff
O-10 Caste Chief of Staff

The Mizol aren't really a support caste as they have two operational commands (the intelligence agency and the diplomatic corps). Greywind came through the intelligence side.

Also, how do Soroin and Tenoin usually enter administrative Torrai positions if most don't go through the Sorimi tack? Do they start out as field commanders and then transfer to desk jobs? Do they get promoted to higher admin positions in their original caste and then jump over the Sorimi position when they become Torrai?

Officers move around between shipboard and planetside positions frequently, especially in peacetime, as there's really not all that much difference between being a section manager on a starship and a section manager in a ground base. In wartime there is less movement, as shipboard personnel tend to get locked in place, due to losses and lack of experienced replacements.

In general, an officer becomes eligible for Torrai induction when she is promoted to an execute officer or unit command rank, whether this is a field unit such as a ship or an administrative unit. The Sorimi is an exception to this, as she is an aide; she may have other clerks reporting to her, but she does not command a unit. Even a Torrai XO outranks a Sorimi, whether that is a field rank or an administrative rank.

There will be an example of a Sorimi character (Opal) later in the story.

[Tamren]

How do Loroi transfer fuel between their starships? If things like gunboat tethers exist could you stretch a hose between two starships or is everything done with containers through the hangar bay like we see with Black Razor in chapter 2?

[Arioch]

How do Loroi transfer fuel between their starships? If things like gunboat tethers exist could you stretch a hose between two starships or is everything done with containers through the hangar bay like we see with Black Razor in chapter 2?

It can be done both ways. Using transfer lines is presumably faster, but requires the ship to approach very close to the cargo vessel and stay in formation with it. When that is not desirable (or possible), or when the cargo is bulky and can't be transferred this way, cargo can be carried by shuttle instead. Since a cargo ship can generally only set up transfer lines with one ship at a time, when time is short they will probably also have shuttles carrying supplies to other ships.

[D-503]

Since a cargo ship can generally only set up transfer lines with one ship at a time

Why not two - one on the port side, one backbord?
Or even four, including top and bottom, too?

Even with four, a minimum of agility is still attained; also emergency separation.

[Arioch]

Since a cargo ship can generally only set up transfer lines with one ship at a time

Why not two - one on the port side, one backbord?
Or even four, including top and bottom, too?

Even with four, a minimum of agility is still attained; also emergency separation.

That would depend on how the tanker is designed, but it might be unwise to stack up multiple ships during a relatively hazardous procedure. Taimat has to be kept supercooled during the transfer process or it may explode, and I can imagine a variety of opportunities for mishaps.

[Demarquis]

Since a cargo ship can generally only set up transfer lines with one ship at a time

Why not two - one on the port side, one backbord?
Or even four, including top and bottom, too?

Even with four, a minimum of agility is still attained; also emergency separation.

Heh, don't forget front and back, and the four diagonals, for a total of eight. But now you have to take all the problems Arioch mentioned and multiply them by seven.

[avatar576]

Since a cargo ship can generally only set up transfer lines with one ship at a time

Why not two - one on the port side, one backbord?
Or even four, including top and bottom, too?

Even with four, a minimum of agility is still attained; also emergency separation.

You'd very, very rapidly reach a point of diminishing returns. The more transfer points you have, the more complicated your transfer systems become. As a famous Starfleet engineer once said, "The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain." More moving parts means more things that can break. So you need redundancy and safety mechanisms for each moving part that can break. Because you don't want things to break down when dealing with really explodey stuff like fuel and munitions.
That's all going to take up more space on board and it's also going to require a larger crew to operate, maintain and repair those systems. And a larger crew means more space is needed for them -- e.g., crew quarters, life support, supplies. Adding complexity to a system often tends to mean exponential increases in space requirements rather than linear. Which means exponentially less space for the fuel and cargo. That means your tankers and freighters have simply become mobile pumping stations/supply distribution depots and you need to build more ships to carry all the stuff that your distributor ships would then distribute.
So, to compensate for that, you bring along a very simple tanker or freighter with just one transfer point...Which is what you started with.

[D-503]

More moving parts means more things that can break. So you need redundancy and safety mechanisms for each moving part that can break.

Aaaand a smart way to do this is redundancy by at least another refuelling point.
Because if one refuelling point is out of service, you´ll have a second one.
Even our aerial refuelling tankers have at least two points, the A330 MRTT up to three.

[Tamren]

The way I imagined it is that there would be different tiers of fuel tanker designed for increasingly risky operations.

- At the lowest end you have plain civilian tanker designs, slow and thin skinned.

- The next tier up is military fuel tankers, these would be faster and armed/armoured to some degree so that a single stray shot or torpedo doesn't blow them sky high for free. Since they can maintain pace with warships they can be used to make a fleet independent and not beholden to a slower baggage train, like what the umiak do with khalka divisions.

- The highest tier would be "combat capable" fuel tankers, only a few steps removed from a full warship with the speed, armour and firepower necessary to fight (though only as a last resort). These are what you would use to perform underway replenishment at or near the front lines and would likely carry special equipment to make that process as fast/safe as possible.

[Arioch]

Heh, don't forget front and back, and the four diagonals, for a total of eight. But now you have to take all the problems Arioch mentioned and multiply them by seven.

You can't do underway replenishment while flying in the engine plume of the ship in front of you.

[kiliu]

Just discovered this comic and it seems really interesting! One thing I'm wondering about is the possibility of male Loroi exercising a kind of soft power due to their importance to society. My little headcanon is that a male Loroi (especially a high-status one such as the Nedatan) could find himself in a position where lots of female Loroi "owe him a favor". Groups like the Nedatan might especially be able to leverage these favors, due to having more resources and therefore a better ability to contact past partners and call in these favors, as well as the fact that they're more likely to be matched with more important women. This could take the form of groups such as the Nedatan using this influence collectively in an almost Bene Gesseritish fashion, but also could just take the form of an individual using his connections for personal benefit.

[Arioch]

Just discovered this comic and it seems really interesting! One thing I'm wondering about is the possibility of male Loroi exercising a kind of soft power due to their importance to society. My little headcanon is that a male Loroi (especially a high-status one such as the Nedatan) could find himself in a position where lots of female Loroi "owe him a favor". Groups like the Nedatan might especially be able to leverage these favors, due to having more resources and therefore a better ability to contact past partners and call in these favors, as well as the fact that they're more likely to be matched with more important women. This could take the form of groups such as the Nedatan using this influence collectively in an almost Bene Gesseritish fashion, but also could just take the form of an individual using his connections for personal benefit.

I think that high status inevitably translates into some kind of influence. Even in the most restrictive human cultures (as regards gender roles), a pretty woman could still occasionally influence events by batting her eyelashes at the right male.

On the one hand, Loroi males are at a disadvantage in the domain of pure sexual influence, since Loroi males don't have permanent mates or much control over who they are mated with (making Bene Gesserit-style genetic manipulation rather difficult), but they make up for that in having fairly important professional roles in society. The Nedatan are the keepers of the heroic lore, and so have a certain amount of control over the narrative by which the Loroi define themselves. Males are counselors and therapists, with access to those in the very highest levels of power.

[Werra]

Heh, don't forget front and back, and the four diagonals, for a total of eight. But now you have to take all the problems Arioch mentioned and multiply them by seven.

You can't do underway replenishment while flying in the engine plume of the ship in front of you.

You can if you tether the ship you are refueling to another that pulls it from a far enough distance. If you run a fuel line from the ship you refuel to the one pulling it you can even relay fuel to yet another ship at the same time. Fly the whole construction in front of an Umiak ship and they will be scraping engineer brains from the ceilings for a week.

[GeoModder]

You can't do underway replenishment while flying in the engine plume of the ship in front of you.

You can if you tether the ship you are refueling to another that pulls it from a far enough distance. If you run a fuel line from the ship you refuel to the one pulling it you can even relay fuel to yet another ship at the same time. Fly the whole construction in front of an Umiak ship and they will be scraping engineer brains from the ceilings for a week.

That's quite the possible hazzard cascade you imagine there.
And while an engineer's brain might explode, a weapons officer would have a field day.

[Demarquis]

Heh, don't forget front and back, and the four diagonals, for a total of eight. But now you have to take all the problems Arioch mentioned and multiply them by seven.

You can't do underway replenishment while flying in the engine plume of the ship in front of you.

Why would they be accelerating?