Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[Arioch]

I was thinking more of a scenario where no war ever erupts, or any that does doesn't last very long, and thus their reputation isn't shattered after 25 years of nonstop war. The Loroi are a warrior species and greatly proud of their military and culture. I don't imagine they'd hold great respect for a civilization, especially not a newly discovered one. They probably respect the Barsam and other Union species, but they've known them for centuries, and have provided technology to the Loroi. A new civilization or force appearing from the wild blue yonder, with a myriad of species, one with demonstrably more advanced technology, would put them on edge, would they not? Especially considering how the Loroi regarded the Umiak from the beginning, I can't help but think they'd be even more xenophobic or paranoid.

Especially if they caught a glimpse of what they could do if angered. A civilization like that, with all the above information, seeking free trade and cultural exchange with the Union, would likely be taken badly, wouldn't it? Especially if they wanted the Union to join under the pretext of peaceful cooperation for the galaxy?

Maybe I've read them wrongly, but to me the Loroi come off as extremely paranoid of any neighbors, are highly xenophobic, and view themselves as the peak of civilization and culture, and look down on aliens. Being presented with the above scenario sounds like it'd invoke a very negative reaction from them, including their allies. Meeting another civilization who dwarfs them, but claims to want peace, would make them extremely suspicious, wouldn't it?

Prior to the current war, the regimes of Eighth Dawn and Greywind were quite confident in Loroi power; the Loroi met a lot of new civilizations during this period, and they tried to set up trade relations wherever possible (including with the Historians and Umiak, both of whom were at least equal in technological advancement). The Loroi are culturally insular (mostly because of telepathy), but they are pragmatic... they have benefitted substantially in terms of technological advance and material prosperity through interactions with other nations. Isolationist Loroi may be rightly concerned about the discovery of more advanced and powerful empires, but hostility toward someone who can clearly beat you is not beneficial... especially if you can learn new technological secrets from them. It's the Umiak who are paranoid, not particularly the Loroi.

The Historians are a perfect example of a very advanced civilization with secretive and highly suspicious motives... it's hard to imagine that the Loroi would react worse to a hypothetical galactic federation than they have to the Historians.

It's all about context; who this civilization is, where they are and under what circumstances they are met, and what they ask or offer. Just from a practical geographic point of view, it doesn't make much sense for a distant federation to ask the Loroi to join, since they will probably have little or no access to this distant territory. it would be kind of like an emissary of the European Union arriving in Bolivia and asking them to join... they share no borders or even access to the same oceans.

SpoilerShow

The "Project Forward" sequel is about contact with the civilizations up-arm from the Local Bubble, in which geopolitical hijinx ensue.

[Quickdraw101]

I was thinking more of a scenario where no war ever erupts, or any that does doesn't last very long, and thus their reputation isn't shattered after 25 years of nonstop war. The Loroi are a warrior species and greatly proud of their military and culture. I don't imagine they'd hold great respect for a civilization, especially not a newly discovered one. They probably respect the Barsam and other Union species, but they've known them for centuries, and have provided technology to the Loroi. A new civilization or force appearing from the wild blue yonder, with a myriad of species, one with demonstrably more advanced technology, would put them on edge, would they not? Especially considering how the Loroi regarded the Umiak from the beginning, I can't help but think they'd be even more xenophobic or paranoid.

Especially if they caught a glimpse of what they could do if angered. A civilization like that, with all the above information, seeking free trade and cultural exchange with the Union, would likely be taken badly, wouldn't it? Especially if they wanted the Union to join under the pretext of peaceful cooperation for the galaxy?

Maybe I've read them wrongly, but to me the Loroi come off as extremely paranoid of any neighbors, are highly xenophobic, and view themselves as the peak of civilization and culture, and look down on aliens. Being presented with the above scenario sounds like it'd invoke a very negative reaction from them, including their allies. Meeting another civilization who dwarfs them, but claims to want peace, would make them extremely suspicious, wouldn't it?

Prior to the current war, the regimes of Eighth Dawn and Greywind were quite confident in Loroi power; the Loroi met a lot of new civilizations during this period, and they tried to set up trade relations wherever possible (including with the Historians and Umiak, both of whom were at least equal in technological advancement). The Loroi are culturally insular (mostly because of telepathy), but they are pragmatic... they have benefitted substantially in terms of technological advance and material prosperity through interactions with other nations. Isolationist Loroi may be rightly concerned about the discovery of more advanced and powerful empires, but hostility toward someone who can clearly beat you is not beneficial... especially if you can learn new technological secrets from them. It's the Umiak who are paranoid, not particularly the Loroi.

The Historians are a perfect example of a very advanced civilization with secretive and highly suspicious motives... it's hard to imagine that the Loroi would react worse to a hypothetical galactic federation than they have to the Historians.

It's all about context; who this civilization is, where they are and under what circumstances they are met, and what they ask or offer. Just from a practical geographic point of view, it doesn't make much sense for a distant federation to ask the Loroi to join, since they will probably have little or no access to this distant territory. it would be kind of like an emissary of the European Union arriving in Bolivia and asking them to join... they share no borders or even access to the same oceans.

SpoilerShow

The "Project Forward" sequel is about contact with the civilizations up-arm from the Local Bubble, in which geopolitical hijinx ensue.

Well without getting into specifics of who said faction is, basically my idea was someone or someones come across the Loroi and Umiak in their surveys of the galaxy, seeking out to bring peace to the galaxy, and bring everyone up to the same standards. One because they morally feel obligated to end the suffering of sentients, and second being there's far greater threats out there, and they want the whole galaxy united. They take a look at both sides history, and happen upon just what was happening, are utterly horrified, and intervene from that point forward. After a show of military force, aimed more at one side than the other, take a guess who, they sit down, and talk shop. In my fantastical scenario, said faction(s) are willing to trade technology, as to allow everyone to achive the same standards, they are just sick of seeing people kill each other across the galaxy.

TLDR: They are sick of seeing the galaxy torn asunder by war, seek to unite everyone, and are willing to trade tech if they believe they can trust them with it.

[gaerzi]

it would be kind of like an emissary of the European Union arriving in Bolivia and asking them to join... they share no borders or even access to the same oceans.

Bolivia has access to the same oceans as EU member countries Austria, Czechia, Slovakia, and Hungary. Also, while they have no common borders with each other, both Bolivia and the European Union have a border with Brazil.

[Arioch]

it would be kind of like an emissary of the European Union arriving in Bolivia and asking them to join... they share no borders or even access to the same oceans.

Bolivia has access to the same oceans as EU member countries Austria, Czechia, Slovakia, and Hungary. Also, while they have no common borders with each other, both Bolivia and the European Union have a border with Brazil.

Bolivia is landlocked.

Well without getting into specifics of who said faction is, basically my idea was someone or someones come across the Loroi and Umiak in their surveys of the galaxy, seeking out to bring peace to the galaxy, and bring everyone up to the same standards. One because they morally feel obligated to end the suffering of sentients, and second being there's far greater threats out there, and they want the whole galaxy united. They take a look at both sides history, and happen upon just what was happening, are utterly horrified, and intervene from that point forward. After a show of military force, aimed more at one side than the other, take a guess who, they sit down, and talk shop. In my fantastical scenario, said faction(s) are willing to trade technology, as to allow everyone to achive the same standards, they are just sick of seeing people kill each other across the galaxy.

TLDR: They are sick of seeing the galaxy torn asunder by war, seek to unite everyone, and are willing to trade tech if they believe they can trust them with it.

The way hyperspace travel works in Outsider complicates further exploration of the galaxy, or the arrival of distant civilizations. The Union doesn't have access to the routes up arm or down arm; they are blocked by Umiak and Nissek territory, respectively. The reverse is true for any emissaries of distant empires; if they are coming from up-arm, they'd have to get through Umiak space first, which the Umiak are not likely to permit willingly. And because of the lack of FTL comms, these emissaries have no way of knowing what the political situation is, or even that the Loroi exist.

[gaerzi]

Bolivia is landlocked.

Hence the joke about having access to the same oceans as Austria et al. (They all have access to zero oceans.)

[GeoModder]

Bolivia is landlocked.

Hence the joke about having access to the same oceans as Austria et al. (They all have access to zero oceans.)

Not to mention the French territory bordering Brazil you implied doesn't have sufficient port facilities.

[Quickdraw101]

it would be kind of like an emissary of the European Union arriving in Bolivia and asking them to join... they share no borders or even access to the same oceans.

Bolivia has access to the same oceans as EU member countries Austria, Czechia, Slovakia, and Hungary. Also, while they have no common borders with each other, both Bolivia and the European Union have a border with Brazil.

Bolivia is landlocked.

Well without getting into specifics of who said faction is, basically my idea was someone or someones come across the Loroi and Umiak in their surveys of the galaxy, seeking out to bring peace to the galaxy, and bring everyone up to the same standards. One because they morally feel obligated to end the suffering of sentients, and second being there's far greater threats out there, and they want the whole galaxy united. They take a look at both sides history, and happen upon just what was happening, are utterly horrified, and intervene from that point forward. After a show of military force, aimed more at one side than the other, take a guess who, they sit down, and talk shop. In my fantastical scenario, said faction(s) are willing to trade technology, as to allow everyone to achive the same standards, they are just sick of seeing people kill each other across the galaxy.

TLDR: They are sick of seeing the galaxy torn asunder by war, seek to unite everyone, and are willing to trade tech if they believe they can trust them with it.

The way hyperspace travel works in Outsider complicates further exploration of the galaxy, or the arrival of distant civilizations. The Union doesn't have access to the routes up arm or down arm; they are blocked by Umiak and Nissek territory, respectively. The reverse is true for any emissaries of distant empires; if they are coming from up-arm, they'd have to get through Umiak space first, which the Umiak are not likely to permit willingly. And because of the lack of FTL comms, these emissaries have no way of knowing what the political situation is, or even that the Loroi exist.

Fair enough I suppose, I'm just trying to get a feel to how the Loroi and Umiak might react, respectively, to a new force stepping onto the mat, with goals that might very well be contradictory to those of their own government policies and military agendas. To which the answer I've gotten is basically "It depends on a lot of factors". Again, this is me brainstorming potential ideas for something down the line, nothing too concrete as of now.

[Demarquis]

I guess that would depend on what the external threat was, and how immanent. Nothing unites like a common enemy.

[Quickdraw101]

On that note, I remember how Jim once said on the discord that most Loroi women wouldn't mind having their vanity flattered in regards to positive comments on their looks. Since eventually Humans and Loroi will engage in more larger scale contact with each other, some will also inevitably work together. Would a Soroin, Tenoin, or just Warriors in general, doing any type of physical labor be offended if a group of Human men offered to do all that work for them? Like, back on Earth any man seeing a woman doing heavy lifting will be seen in a negative light, with men rushing to help.

I forsee something like this inevitably occurring because Human men are as large or larger than most Loroi are(Still waiting to see a 6'+ Loroi), and whose protective instincts will kick in by seeing a woman doing hard labor. To that note, would they take offense at the prospect of being pampered? Such as having men bringing them anything they wanted at any hour, while they can sit back and do their hair and nails all day?

[Tamri]

SpoilerShow

On that note, I remember how Jim once said on the discord that most Loroi women wouldn't mind having their vanity flattered in regards to positive comments on their looks. Since eventually Humans and Loroi will engage in more larger scale contact with each other, some will also inevitably work together. Would a Soroin, Tenoin, or just Warriors in general, doing any type of physical labor be offended if a group of Human men offered to do all that work for them? Like, back on Earth any man seeing a woman doing heavy lifting will be seen in a negative light, with men rushing to help.

I forsee something like this inevitably occurring because Human men are as large or larger than most Loroi are(Still waiting to see a 6'+ Loroi), and whose protective instincts will kick in by seeing a woman doing hard labor. To that note, would they take offense at the prospect of being pampered? Such as having men bringing them anything they wanted at any hour, while they can sit back and do their hair and nails all day?

For a better understanding, just invert the gender roles. In Loroi society, women = men of humans, both in terms of social burden and cultural content. In addition, the Loroi culture is much less positive about individual hedonism than the vast majority of Earth cultures.

So, although I admit that Loroi will definitely have thoughts like "if I were a sultan", in practice it is much more likely that there will be a clash of gender stereotypes on the basis of "the weaker sex shouldn`t work hard", and I expect a much stronger reaction just from the side of the loroi - humans have actually become accustomed to equality for almost a century, in another hundred and fifty years these processes will go even further, while the loroi is hardly at the beginning of this path.

[gaerzi]

Not to mention the French territory bordering Brazil you implied doesn't have sufficient port facilities.

It's sufficient to offload Ariane rockets! What more do you want?

Like, back on Earth any man seeing a woman doing heavy lifting will be seen in a negative light, with men rushing to help.

Not really, no. Obvious example.

[GeoModder]

Not to mention the French territory bordering Brazil you implied doesn't have sufficient port facilities.

It's sufficient to offload Ariane rockets! What more do you want?

A couple rockets a year doesn't begin to equal the port capacity needed to ship for a whole country!

[Arioch]

Would a Soroin, Tenoin, or just Warriors in general, doing any type of physical labor be offended if a group of Human men offered to do all that work for them? Like, back on Earth any man seeing a woman doing heavy lifting will be seen in a negative light, with men rushing to help.

I forsee something like this inevitably occurring because Human men are as large or larger than most Loroi are(Still waiting to see a 6'+ Loroi), and whose protective instincts will kick in by seeing a woman doing hard labor. To that note, would they take offense at the prospect of being pampered? Such as having men bringing them anything they wanted at any hour, while they can sit back and do their hair and nails all day?

I don't think that enjoying having one's vanity flattered is an exclusively feminine trait.

If chivalry isn't already dead now, it almost certainly will be by 2160. I'll offer to help anyone who appears to struggling with some kind of physical task, regardless of gender. If I see women doing a physical task which appears to be their job, I think it would be extremely condescending to offer to help her.

Large and powerfully built males will be confusing for Loroi females, because they will straddle the uncanny valley between what Loroi see as a recognizable male and what they see as alien. It's a little bit like how human men see female bodybuilders; some find them attractive, but for others they don't really even read as female. It will be mostly down to individual tastes.

[Demarquis]

Cannonically (cannicly? cannonally?) human males are a base breaker among the Loroi. We have seen the entire spectrum of reactions, from open attraction to open contempt, and everything in between (I think Tempo is intrigued, but not enough to distract her from her mission).

[Bamax]

Would a Soroin, Tenoin, or just Warriors in general, doing any type of physical labor be offended if a group of Human men offered to do all that work for them? Like, back on Earth any man seeing a woman doing heavy lifting will be seen in a negative light, with men rushing to help.

I forsee something like this inevitably occurring because Human men are as large or larger than most Loroi are(Still waiting to see a 6'+ Loroi), and whose protective instincts will kick in by seeing a woman doing hard labor. To that note, would they take offense at the prospect of being pampered? Such as having men bringing them anything they wanted at any hour, while they can sit back and do their hair and nails all day?

I don't think that enjoying having one's vanity flattered is an exclusively feminine trait.

If chivalry isn't already dead now, it almost certainly will be by 2160. I'll offer to help anyone who appears to struggling with some kind of physical task, regardless of gender. If I see women doing a physical task which appears to be their job, I think it would be extremely condescending to offer to help her.

Large and powerfully built males will be confusing for Loroi females, because they will straddle the uncanny valley between what Loroi see as a recognizable male and what they see as alien. It's a little bit like how human men see female bodybuilders; some find them attractive, but for others they don't really even read as female. It will be mostly down to individual tastes.

Uh... ewww.... not quite.

Female bodybuilders I have seen tend to take on male physical characteristics... what I mean is that their breasts seem to shrink while their muscles become huge.

So unless there is something notable that is different between Loroi males and human males besides size and muscle, I am not sure that is a quite accurate comparison.

I am gathering that female loroi have more muscle and are larger than males, yet they still look feminine and not like muscle hulks.... nor are their boobs shrunk.

I guess Loroi ideals of a an attractive male is a boyish teen with awesome hair and nicely shaped ears.

She-hulk... at least in her more classic form.... still looks attractive to me.... because she retains the feminine shape and her breasts are not shrunken.

I am not sure if that occurs in real life because of female bodybuilders takinh steroids or testosterone... but I am also aware of a male in the locker room im HS who had breasts more or less... and I think it was from taking steroids.... and yes.... his man parts were shrunken.

I honestly think steroids makes men less men and women less women.

if anything it is when a female looks like a man is when I am not attracted.

Loroi won't have that problem since human males won't ever look female (apart from those who try to).

[gaerzi]

I guess Loroi ideals of a an attractive male is a boyish teen with awesome hair and nicely shaped ears.

Yeah, loroi males are very neotenic. When the loroi visit human worlds, people will have to keep them away from high schools.

[Krulle]

The question remains, why didn't they return? Hundreds of millennia have passed since the Fall.

Maybe they know what happened "here" and it had repercussions on their own area.
And they became non-expansive, maybe also due to lack of population (declining population, like in Western "wealthy" nations).

[Snoofman]

The question remains, why didn't they return? Hundreds of millennia have passed since the Fall.

Maybe they know what happened "here" and it had repercussions on their own area.
And they became non-expansive, maybe also due to lack of population (declining population, like in Western "wealthy" nations).

And, assuming the Soia and other precursor races did not go extinct, It could also be that the survivors of the fallen empires chose to be a tiny civilization, barely noticeable to others. And watch the advancement of other civilizations to gather data about how to better solve the problems that civilizations face. Their strength perhaps lies not in vast numbers like all the other current or former empires, but rather in the quality of a smaller but smarter civilization. The larger an empire gets, the more people it has to take care of, the harder it becomes to control the peoples and to sustain said empire. Whose already vast complexity becomes chaotically ever more too complex to control.

[gaerzi]

And watch the advancement of other civilizations to gather data about how to better solve the problems that civilizations face.

And perhaps choose to call themselves by this occupation of watching and recording data about other civilizations? Maybe something like "Chroniclers" perhaps?

[Keklas Rekobah]

And watch the advancement of other civilizations to gather data about how to better solve the problems that civilizations face.

And perhaps choose to call themselves by this occupation of watching and recording data about other civilizations?  Maybe something like "Chroniclers" perhaps?

I imagine some of the Soia intelligencia placing themselves in some kind of suspended animation under the care of a global A.I., which is also quietly observing and recording seeded species on other worlds while running a utopia for the remainder of the Soia populace, which has devolved into a singular passive and incurious leisure class that is largely indifferent to other species and civilizations.  This global A.I. also sends out smaller versions of itself for more remote interactions . . .