The Current State of Human Technology

[Atomic]

Such is the internet... everything can happen.

Cough.

I do still think the weaponized version of particle beams might be viable at our stage of development. It'd be roughly three centuries after the first discovery of them by humans.

Missiles are of course in game, we aren't sure of how much will the payload be when compared to theirs.

I do also think that at this stage, the entire planetary earth's communications would behave like a gestalt entity, even if we don't advance much in terms of new technologies, of information and data, although the chances of it misfiring and being idle would be high enough (we waste much too much time in the net!). Other colonies could have their own emergent networks,at different stages of success.

Maybe we're also making a bid to make Quantum Entanglement feasible...

Wethere they're able to pierce ships designed to be much more nasty, it's a good question...

[Paragon]

Haha, true. I don't know how to feel about a gestalt A.I./comms/whaterver thing though. I get the sinking feeling that EarthCom would be a bit of a dick. Or completely insane.

Yeah, probably that last one.

[Mjolnir]

I do still think the weaponized version of particle beams might be viable at our stage of development. It'd be roughly three centuries after the first discovery of them by humans.

For space weapons, possibly more weaponizable in the near term than lasers, at least for targets designed with some protection against such weapons. Some simple refractory/ablative armor will help a great deal against lasers just powerful enough to do physical/thermal damage, but even if you stop a particle beam from boring a hole into your satellite, the blast of high energy particles and secondary x-rays will be quite difficult to protect electronics against. A soft kill by radiation (or directly dumping charge into part of a satellite) also has benefits in controlling orbital debris and potentially taking out a target without it being known that you did it.

I do also think that at this stage, the entire planetary earth's communications would behave like a gestalt entity, even if we don't advance much in terms of new technologies, of information and data, although the chances of it misfiring and being idle would be high enough (we waste much too much time in the net!). Other colonies could have their own emergent networks,at different stages of success.

Why assume emergent behavior will take the form of an intelligence, or that there would necessarily be any sort of large scale, persistent, organized behaviors that would qualify as an "entity"? Aside from the limited complexity and flexibility as a substrate for such an entity, any large scale emergent behaviors will probably be damped out intentionally to keep them from interfering with normal operation of the networks, or be brief events quickly wiped out by normal network activity, or by parts of the network going down due to the abnormal activity.

Maybe we're also making a bid to make Quantum Entanglement feasible...

Not sure what you're talking about here. Production of entangled particles is commonplace, so just "entanglement" is entirely feasible. Quantum computing is specialized for particular types of problems, quantum cryptography systems are already working. If you mean using entangled particles alone for communications...that's pure sci-fi, entanglement can't be used to transmit classical information. Measurements of both particles will be consistent when compared, but there's no way to influence the state of one particle in an entangled pair using the other particle.

[Paragon]

Remember Mjolnir, the purpose of this thread is to speculate on human tech in Outsider. It doesn't necessarily have to be possible with science, tech, etc. that we know about today. It just has to sound plausible and follow consistent rules, right? Unless Arioch has a math proof for FTL travel he hasn't told us about?

[Solemn]

Maybe we're also making a bid to make Quantum Entanglement feasible...

I take it you're talking about the whole sci-fi instant communications regardless of distance thing.

I don't believe functional quantum entanglement based instantaneous communications technology can be reconciled with the story as it exists.

If humanity was anywhere near the prototype phase of an instantaneous communications device, I'd think that the mission would have been put off until such a device could be put on the scout ships, or at least on the Prahbu. And then the political and military decisions would be made on Earth. And also the Bellarmine would have used the entanglement communicator thingy to tell Earth that they'd found aliens. So basically the whole story wouldn't happen.

If however humanity was not near a physical prototype but had found the principles to be sound and was making steps in that direction, then I'd think that this conversation would go a bit differently. That Alex would come from a perspective that takes the basic premise of quantum entanglement communications for granted, and would probably assume Loroi quantum-related technology to be better than humanity's, what with the whole sprawling space empire and all.

The whole reason for the story is that the important decisions that will decide humanity's future have to be made on the spot for the story's duration. I don't think that can be reconciled with existing instantaneous communications, I don't think the mission makes sense if instantaneous communications are in the immediate future for humanity, and I don't think humans should manage to make more advanced interstellar communications than everyone who has actually had to run a tightly-controlled sprawling space empire. I mean, we might be smarter or faster than them or something, but they'd have had a lot more time to try, and much more pressing need. So it'd kinda make the aliens look like they're dumber than us.

Or completely insane.

Insane is such a loaded word.

[Atomic]

Yes, I'm not talking about the real one (which so far, is much better for encryption and computing than transmission, anyway). But I can see that Loroi technological-based communications might not be as advanced as their Umiak counterparts, for example. They do have their own psi abilities, and it is a common mechanism that the need makes the tool.

Note that I said to make a bid for, not actually achieve it. And I never mentioned they'd be past the drawing blueprints stage, anyway. In fact with the arrival of the Orgus the project might've been stopped altogether before reaching the prototype phase.

As for the gestalt entity, i think I should explain more. The gestalt entity is not the "network" per se, but rather the load of human brains voicing their opinions at the speed of light with eachother. In short, it's the will of the bulk of humanity being upgraded by an existing network. Think about memes, but on a larger and more sophisticated scale. I don't think you can stop that by ...purging network parts, once it sets in.

And yes, it'll be insane. Somewhat. It'll be worth to see the emissary of the Historians clash with the INTERNET.

[junk]

Yes, I'm not talking about the real one (which so far, is much better for encryption and computing than transmission, anyway). But I can see that Loroi technological-based communications might not be as advanced as their Umiak counterparts, for example. They do have their own psi abilities, and it is a common mechanism that the need makes the tool.

Note that I said to make a bid for, not actually achieve it. And I never mentioned they'd be past the drawing blueprints stage, anyway. In fact with the arrival of the Orgus the project might've been stopped altogether before reaching the prototype phase.

As for the gestalt entity, i think I should explain more. The gestalt entity is not the "network" per se, but rather the load of human brains voicing their opinions at the speed of light with eachother. In short, it's the will of the bulk of humanity being upgraded by an existing network. Think about memes, but on a larger and more sophisticated scale. I don't think you can stop that by ...purging network parts, once it sets in.

And yes, it'll be insane. Somewhat. It'll be worth to see the emissary of the Historians clash with the INTERNET.

So essentially the borg?
Keep in mind that the internet is essentially just information it has no purpose no direction apart from what we give them. If you have no ability to use the information yourself (as opopsed to just index, propagate and array) you have no option to create emergent behavioural patterns. While some emergent behaviour might emerge - specific genetic indexing capabities based on user needs, a specific subset of preemptive actions will probably not emerge.

[bunnyboy]

But I can see that Loroi technological-based communications might not be as advanced

[Karst45]

But I can see that Loroi technological-based communications might not be as advanced

Lawl!

Many of the anim i seen have anachronism like that. Giant robot in medieval era, antigrav "ship" in a steam powered world.

[Trantor]

Many of the anim i seen have anachronism like that. Giant robot in medieval era, antigrav "ship" in a steam powered world.

*sniff* ...that reminds me of sadly gone Alpha Shade...

[Count Casimir]

Many of the anim i seen have anachronism like that. Giant robot in medieval era, antigrav "ship" in a steam powered world.

*sniff* ...that reminds me of sadly gone Alpha Shade...

The site's still up! Don't lose hope!

[Paragon]

But I can see that Loroi technological-based communications might not be as advanced

It's really, really wrong that I know what that's from.

Edit: it's classified in some places as softcore porn just so I'm clear. The creator of Tenchi Muyo said, "I want to make a show where the main characters' primary activities are old style comedy gags and fucking." And then he made that series.

[NOMAD]

maybe, whats the series, never seen it ?

[Arioch]

maybe, whats the series, never seen it ?

Spaceship Agga Ruter.

[bunnyboy]

It's really, really wrong that I know what that's from.

There is nothing wrong on that. It is interesting world/universe having the most beautiful spaceships ever and ancient mysteries with artifact technology. Characters are adorable and well thought persons and they learn and evolve when story goes.
But I understand, if someone would upset from it, the -ahem- fanservice isn't innocent.

[TrashMan]

I for one predict that ranges in space combat will not be millions of kilometers.

Siffusion/diffraction and various other requirements and problem will probably keep it within half a light-second (for anything except missiles). At least that's my prediction.

[LegioCI]

If humanity was anywhere near the prototype phase of an instantaneous communications device, I'd think that the mission would have been put off until such a device could be put on the scout ships, or at least on the Prahbu. And then the political and military decisions would be made on Earth. And also the Bellarmine would have used the entanglement communicator thingy to tell Earth that they'd found aliens. So basically the whole story wouldn't happen.

Not necessarily. If a workable QEC prototype were close to completion, the TCA might send the Scout Corps out anyway, deeming the immediacy of figuring out who and what's out there and making contact could trump the usefulness of waiting until you have a new bit of technology that would make the mission a bit easier. They might have also viewed the available technology as "good enough to get the job done" with QEC's being planned for the next major refit. And there are reasons that other races might not have bothered with this, the Loroi because they already have psychic communications that may or may not be FTL and the Umiak because they

Also, what would be the information density from a QEC? Because I was thinking that, at least for a defensive resource, a constellation of QEC-equiped satellites could be a significant advantage, by showing us where enemy ships are right now instead of where they were a couple of seconds ago. An Umiak strike force might move into a Terran system only to find themselves being picked apart by extremely accurate railgun fire from ships outside the range of even Long-range Lasers. (Gotta remember that railguns don't lose their ability to ruin someone's day with distance like lasers do, and they don't stop being a threat until they hit something. Their only "effective range" is our ability to accurately aim them. God I love kinetic weaponry.)

[Mjolnir]

Also, what would be the information density from a QEC?

For real systems, zero. If you insist on using a misunderstanding of quantum mechanics as the basis of your communications technology, you can have it be whatever you want.

Why this fixation on using an incorrect description of entanglement for communications? Saying "it's fictional" doesn't justify it, you can come up with any random thing as an explanation or avoid explaining it at all, and never have any problems with contradicting known physics. Why must it be quantum entanglement? Apart from spreading and reinforcing a misconception of how the physics works, it relies on an effect that readers who understand the physics know doesn't exist.

Because I was thinking that, at least for a defensive resource, a constellation of QEC-equiped satellites could be a significant advantage, by showing us where enemy ships are right now instead of where they were a couple of seconds ago. An Umiak strike force might move into a Terran system only to find themselves being picked apart by extremely accurate railgun fire from ships outside the range of even Long-range Lasers. (Gotta remember that railguns don't lose their ability to ruin someone's day with distance like lasers do, and they don't stop being a threat until they hit something. Their only "effective range" is our ability to accurately aim them. God I love kinetic weaponry.)

A FTL sensor network only eliminates lightspeed lag. For mass driver fire, the travel time of the projectile is far greater than the lightspeed lag. Lasers and plasma/particle weapons are limited in range largely by lightspeed lag and their range could be roughly doubled by a FTL sensor network, mass drivers are limited by the velocity of the projectile and would not get any particular benefit.

Also note that a mass driver firing is not going to be difficult to spot, there'll be a strong EM signal broadcast ahead of the projectile warning any ships in its path. The potential targets can then do a quick radar/lidar/thermal search of possible intercept trajectories to spot the projectile, and take evasive actions as needed. Even at extreme range, there would be very little warning for incoming energy weapon fire, but kinetic projectiles can easily be evaded if they're not actively seeking the target (which requires acceleration of the same order as the target and a decent delta-v budget, making it a fairly large kinetic missile instead of a mass driver projectile).

[Karst45]

Many of the anim i seen have anachronism like that. Giant robot in medieval era, antigrav "ship" in a steam powered world.

*sniff* ...that reminds me of sadly gone Alpha Shade...

The site's still up! Don't lose hope!

as an "expert" in webcomic of all style, This look bad, no update in a year and no new since then. Unless there a forum and the autor is still active on it, my guess is he just abandonned the project, maybe in a decade from here he will stumble again on his site and say "hey that used to be fun to do" and will do a restard but his art will have changed so much that he will fell like restarting from scratch with a new story.

So dont get false hope on that, and still running site dont mean it actually going to restart soon. He had long Hiatus periode but never a whole year long.

Ill take a look at that Spaceship Agga Ruter... no i swear it not related to the fanservice some people mentionne.... it for the spaceship... yeah... STOP JUGDING ME!!!!

[Arioch]

Ill take a look at that Spaceship Agga Ruter... no i swear it not related to the fanservice some people mentionne.... it for the spaceship... yeah... STOP JUGDING ME!!!!

It's Masaki Kajishima (of Tenchi Muyo!)... there is no need for justification.