Sex Questions

[Bamax]

1. If Loroi males are rare, that means that multiple, probably hundreds to thousands of Loroi are basically... brothers and sisters by blood relation. Now... many are aware of the Alabama situation (here is an example... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=89NScLi19d4 because Lett is from Alabama) and realize that inbreeding can have negative effects. The Loroi seem to do this on a massive scale though.

2. STIs I am sure are well regulated like the males, and every thing is done to ensure all Loroi are clean before they procreate. Still, I reckon it probably still happens? Does it?

3. Does anyone know the cause of real STDs in humans? I know having multiple partners increases the risk... but I simply wonder about the actual first cause. Perhaps having multiple partners is not something the human body handles well and 'protests' by developing an STD from the immune system response? Definitely the human body is not designed to handle some of the more gross sexual practices which people often do preparation for ahead of time to make safer.

As a virgin I assume that perhaps sexual practices the body is not designed for are one possible source of STDs, as well as the body simply freaking out over one sexual partner too many.

I could be wrong, but I presume for all intents and purposes, the human body prefers monagamy, even though the human mind can wildly differ.

The Loroi though... if I had to guess, seem well equipped for either polyamory or monogamy.

In real life I would be corncerned if I had multiple female lovers, since how would I know if one of them received an STD from another guy besides me?

At least if you have monogamy it's far easier to keep track of that.

For all the obvious things men like about harems, there are serious drawbacks as well.

[Arioch]

1. If Loroi males are rare, that means that multiple, probably hundreds to thousands of Loroi are basically... brothers and sisters by blood relation. Now... many are aware of the Alabama situation (here is an example... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=89NScLi19d4 because Lett is from Alabama) and realize that inbreeding can have negative effects. The Loroi seem to do this on a massive scale though.

It's not really a problem for the Loroi, because mating encounters don't happen by random; instead, they are carefully planned by the relevant authorities, who are have very clear records about who is related to whom. It would have been more of an issue in pre-modern times, but I don't think it would have presented a serious problem. Inbreeding is not ideal, but a limited amount is usually not catastrophic for an entire population.

2. STIs I am sure are well regulated like the males, and every thing is done to ensure all Loroi are clean before they procreate. Still, I reckon it probably still happens? Does it?

Loroi medical technology is quite advanced, and it should go without saying that females usually have to pass thorough medical exams before they are allowed contact with males, but infections can never be completely eliminated.

3. Does anyone know the cause of real STDs in humans? I know having multiple partners increases the risk... but I simply wonder about the actual first cause. Perhaps having multiple partners is not something the human body handles well and 'protests' by developing an STD from the immune system response? Definitely the human body is not designed to handle some of the more gross sexual practices which people often do preparation for ahead of time to make safer.

Sexual transmission is just another vector for the spread of disease organisms; there's otherwise nothing special about it. It's an attack by a foreign organism, not some kind of evolutionary development in humans. It's no different from catching a cold or developing an infection from a wound.

[Bamax]

1. If Loroi males are rare, that means that multiple, probably hundreds to thousands of Loroi are basically... brothers and sisters by blood relation. Now... many are aware of the Alabama situation (here is an example... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=89NScLi19d4 because Lett is from Alabama) and realize that inbreeding can have negative effects. The Loroi seem to do this on a massive scale though.

It's not really a problem for the Loroi, because mating encounters don't happen by random; instead, they are carefully planned by the relevant authorities, who are have very clear records about who is related to whom. It would have been more of an issue in pre-modern times, but I don't think it would have presented a serious problem. Inbreeding is not ideal, but a limited amount is usually not catastrophic for an entire population.

2. STIs I am sure are well regulated like the males, and every thing is done to ensure all Loroi are clean before they procreate. Still, I reckon it probably still happens? Does it?

Loroi medical technology is quite advanced, and it should go without saying that females usually have to pass thorough medical exams before they are allowed contact with males, but infections can never be completely eliminated.

3. Does anyone know the cause of real STDs in humans? I know having multiple partners increases the risk... but I simply wonder about the actual first cause. Perhaps having multiple partners is not something the human body handles well and 'protests' by developing an STD from the immune system response? Definitely the human body is not designed to handle some of the more gross sexual practices which people often do preparation for ahead of time to make safer.

Sexual transmission is just another vector for the spread of disease organisms; there's otherwise nothing special about it. It's an attack by a foreign organism, not some kind of evolutionary development in humans. It's no different from catching a cold or developing an infection from a wound.

Hmmm... then I presume I am at least partially correct if nothing else. Doing stuff the body was not designed to handle is a way to introduce foreign organisms of disease, and having a lot of partners increases this risk.

Yet I like how streamlined sex is for the Loroi as well as their apparent somewhat lower desire for it (nymphomanic Loroi males being the hypersexual exception), almost makes me wish I was a Loroi. But the fact that males are essentially required more or less to be population breeders I would not like as a male, since the human cultural side of me would prefer monogamy.

I may no longer consider myself religious, but having some ethical bounds in life I do agree with even if I think much of religion is manmade fantasies and speculation no one should base their life upon.

[Bamax]

Second question... as a male, and all males know this, sex and or masturbation makes one actually feel kind of tired after.

I remember reading somewhere where it said that it actually lowers a man's testoterone levels if done regularly.

Speaking for myself, when free of masturbation my mind feels less foggy and I even have greater energy levels (expecially with rapid burts of energy... as in sprints and dashes).

Is this the same for Loroi? Or do they need a day or two to recover from their breeding sessions lol?

[Arioch]

Hmmm... then I presume I am at least partially correct if nothing else. Doing stuff the body was not designed to handle is a way to introduce foreign organisms of disease, and having a lot of partners increases this risk.

Transfer of fluids, whether it's sex or comingling of blood or consuming infected tissue or touching your eyes or nose after contact with an infected surface, is just the easiest way for microorganisms to infect a target. Transmission methods that require airborne spores or something else indirect are much easier to defend against. Sexual intercourse is not "stuff the body was not designed to handle," it's just inherently more dangerous by its very nature. Organisms have been reproducing sexually for billions of years -- it's not a recent development.

Second question...

Sex requires stamina like any physical activity, with the additional drain of the hormones and relevant fluids involved, so this is a finite resource. However, organisms that are adapted to do so can make very frequently. I've read that elephant males mate up to ten times per day during the appropriate season, and if you've ever seen a rutting male elephant... well, I feel exhausted and dehydrated just looking at them.

Loroi males are accustomed to frequent sexual activity and do not normally suffer any particular ill effects from it.

[Bamax]

Hmmm... then I presume I am at least partially correct if nothing else. Doing stuff the body was not designed to handle is a way to introduce foreign organisms of disease, and having a lot of partners increases this risk.

Transfer of fluids, whether it's sex or comingling of blood or consuming infected tissue or touching your eyes or nose after contact with an infected surface, is just the easiest way for microorganisms to infect a target. Transmission methods that require airborne spores or something else indirect are much easier to defend against. Sexual intercourse is not "stuff the body was not designed to handle," it's just inherently more dangerous by its very nature. Organisms have been reproducing sexually for billions of years -- it's not a recent development.

Second question...

Sex requires stamina like any physical activity, with the additional drain of the hormones and relevant fluids involved, so this is a finite resource. However, organisms that are adapted to do so can make very frequently. I've read that elephant males mate up to ten times per day during the appropriate season, and if you've ever seen a rutting male elephant... well, I feel exhausted and dehydrated just looking at them.

Loroi males are accustomed to frequent sexual activity and do not normally suffer any particular ill effects from it.

I know the body is designed for sex... I meant specifically the practice of putting stuff where it is not supposed to go but I fear I am rapidly approaching NSFW territory. It's safe to say that due to it's inherent unsanitary nature... risk of disease doing it like that is higher than just using the organs as nature intended us to.

[Bamax]

Also thanks Arioch for telling about how stamina and hormones and fluid are so interconnected. Gives me more reason to stay free from masturbation... especially as a non-religious person.

My reason to stay free is simple.

Don't give myself... my power, away for free. I get virtually nothing back if I do but feeling tired and far less creative and clear minded.

At least if I had a girlfriend/wife I could get something of value back in return. Ideally that would be pure companionship and being an ally who would support me in my endeavors. Something that giving in will never do... it fact it does the opposite.

[Snoofman]

Also thanks Arioch for telling about how stamina and hormones and fluid are so interconnected. Gives me more reason to stay free from masturbation... especially as a non-religious person.

My reason to stay free is simple.

Don't give myself... my power, away for free. I get virtually nothing back if I do but feeling tired and far less creative and clear minded.

At least if I had a girlfriend/wife I could get something of value back in return. Ideally that would be pure companionship and being an ally who would support me in my endeavors. Something that giving in will never do... it fact it does the opposite.

That’s not how I feel about it. There are people who might do it too frequently. But stroking the blade is considered pretty healthy. Some doctors would argue that it’s good to replace old seed with new seed to ensure that a man passes on healthy genes.

[Bamax]

Also thanks Arioch for telling about how stamina and hormones and fluid are so interconnected. Gives me more reason to stay free from masturbation... especially as a non-religious person.

My reason to stay free is simple.

Don't give myself... my power, away for free. I get virtually nothing back if I do but feeling tired and far less creative and clear minded.

At least if I had a girlfriend/wife I could get something of value back in return. Ideally that would be pure companionship and being an ally who would support me in my endeavors. Something that giving in will never do... it fact it does the opposite.

That’s not how I feel about it. There are people who might do it too frequently. But stroking the blade is considered pretty healthy. Some doctors would argue that it’s good to replace old seed with new seed to ensure that a man passes on healthy genes.

Stroking the blade? Talking that Loroi talk... I like it lol.

You may be right. Still, I tend to think guys who actually are not virgins and also have women in their life have less reason to resort to masturbation because... hello? They already have the real thing! Why bother with fake? At least that's my thinking especially if I had a woman (never dated either, grew up as JW but now exJW so very, very, high controlling and culty environment).

I reckon the Loroi in your story would be pissed if one of their sex slave human males was too dehydrated and exhausted from doing that so that he could not perform adequately for them. They would likely chide him with, "Fool! Be patient and save your hot blade for us! That's why you're here shred it!"

[SaintofM]

This might go in a different thread, but what about sexual orientation and Identity? I am sure this could work in a way to get out some "frustration" among certain groups (Ancient Greeks, Arab, and Samurai practiced same sex relations amongst its people, espesialy amongst the warriors). I also know various groups in various times had what could be considered a third gender or have a gender identity that dosn't match what they were dubed thanks to their fun bits for maybe as long as humans could have such a concepts (may not even have started with the known lone surviving species of humans, us).

How would the space elves view this, and maybe some of the other races. I figure there are some that would be left out like the Asexual reproducing bugs, and I believe the space preachers are Hermaphroditic by nature so such things maybe completely alien to them.

[Arioch]

This might go in a different thread, but what about sexual orientation and Identity? I am sure this could work in a way to get out some "frustration" among certain groups (Ancient Greeks, Arab, and Samurai practiced same sex relations amongst its people, espesialy amongst the warriors). I also know various groups in various times had what could be considered a third gender or have a gender identity that dosn't match what they were dubed thanks to their fun bits for maybe as long as humans could have such a concepts (may not even have started with the known lone surviving species of humans, us).

How would the space elves view this, and maybe some of the other races. I figure there are some that would be left out like the Asexual reproducing bugs, and I believe the space preachers are Hermaphroditic by nature so such things maybe completely alien to them.

Human preoccupation with sex and sexuality is partly a function of the fact that we mate for life, and use regular sex between mates to reinforce their intimate social bond, to the point where it has become a psychological need (whereas most Earth animals, including mammals, only mate during certain breeding periods, and for the purpose of reproduction and not pleasure or intimacy). Perhaps as a result of this preoccupation, humans often have a tendency to view almost everything through the lens of sex and gender, whether or not this is really appropriate to the subject.

Loroi don't pair bond, and most females do not have sex on a regular basis, so sex is not something that is used as a social glue. Loroi females don't have a need for regular physical intimacy the way humans do (they use telepathic intimacy with friends instead), so sexuality for them is not how they define themselves. Different subcultures and individuals will have different views on behaviors like homosexuality and masturbation, but for the most part it's just not as big a deal for them as it is in sex-obsessed Western human culture.

Loroi gender roles, on the other hand, are very rigidly defined and not really open to interpretation. Most Loroi can find lifestyles that suit their interests within the confines of the social roles that are proscribed by their gender... but if they can't, that's kind of too bad for them. The Loroi have a warrior culture that is fairly conservative and authoritarian, as you might expect. In general, group welfare is prioritized above individual welfare.

There are also two very distinct social roles for females: warriors and workers. I suppose it could be argued that these groups might actually represent two different genders, but I think that's just twisting the definitions of words in a way that's not especially useful. I don't think that everything about one's identity or social role has to be defined in terms of sex or sexuality.

The Barsam are hermaphroditic, but they don't have physical intercourse at all, nor any need for different gender roles. They have family-like social groups that are organized around child-rearing, but once an individual has given birth, there is no difference in roles between the different family members.

The Neridi are an example of a species that does have regular, prolific sex, and they do use it for social bonding. They're also hermaphroditic, but they transition between male and female functionality at different stages during their lives. They also have two different states of being males that have both different social roles and some associated physiological changes, so there's a better argument to be made that these are two different genders.

[SaintofM]

The Neridi are an example of a species that does have regular, prolific sex, and they do use it for social bonding. They're also hermaphroditic, but they transition between male and female functionality at different stages during their lives. They also have two different states of being males that have both different social roles and some associated physiological changes, so there's a better argument to be made that these are two different genders.

I believe its called Sequential hermaphroditism. I do not think any mammals or birds do this, but some fish, invertebrates, and amphibians do depending on the stimulus. Clown Fish start as male, and a lone female has a harem of males. When she dies the biggest of them becomes the next female. The Asian sheepshead wrasse (or Kabudai) start as female and when they get to a certain age become male and fight to be in charge of the breding ground.

I think some animals might do it when they lack a number of a certain gender and so change to even the odds of adding to the next generation (I know in fiction that is how D&D kobolds do it).

[Arioch]

Yes, I was surprised to learn how different reptiles and fish are from mammals when it comes to sex determination -- many don't use X and Y chromosomes.

I found this to be a very interesting presentation both on sex determination mechanisms, and unusual gender roles in animals.

[Moon Moth]

The Neridi are an example of a species that does have regular, prolific sex, and they do use it for social bonding. They're also hermaphroditic, but they transition between male and female functionality at different stages during their lives. They also have two different states of being males that have both different social roles and some associated physiological changes, so there's a better argument to be made that these are two different genders.

Now I'm curious, and this is all totally trivial, but can non-Neridi tell the difference? What's the Neridi traffic controller in 119, 124, and 137? Having read Bujold's Vorkosigan series, I'm primed to wonder whether the earrings serve an identification and signalling function? Or maybe they're just decoration or rank or something else.

(I'm fascinated by the Neridi because in some ways they sound like the most human - even the most modern-American - of the Loroi Union's species. They even apparently have a compatible sense of humor! And yet we haven't really met one yet.)

[Arioch]

Now I'm curious, and this is all totally trivial, but can non-Neridi tell the difference? What's the Neridi traffic controller in 119, 124, and 137? Having read Bujold's Vorkosigan series, I'm primed to wonder whether the earrings serve an identification and signalling function? Or maybe they're just decoration or rank or something else.

The ear adornments on Leido System Control are cultural signals rather than gender-based ones. They identify him as a member of the "trader" subculture on Derro. Most of the Neridi that we will see in the comic are males of the second type, who are mature "helper" males who rarely mate but do a lot of the most important tasks in Neridi society. If you see a Neridi doing something dangerous that's also useful, that's probably a second-type male.

The Neridi are hermaphrodites and so all have the sexual apparatus to act as both male and female in terms of intercourse... any Neridi can have sex with any other Neridi (and they do). Being in a state of male or female determines the kinds of gametes (sex cells) that he or she can produce, and so gender is a biological state rather than just a psychological state, but physically there is very little outward change between genders, so it's very difficult for non-Neridi to tell the difference. Neridi can easily tell due to shifting pheromones (they have superior sense of smell) but also due to characteristic shifts in personality. There are also titles in Neridi extended names that indicate gender.

(I'm fascinated by the Neridi because in some ways they sound like the most human - even the most modern-American - of the Loroi Union's species. They even apparently have a compatible sense of humor! And yet we haven't really met one yet.)

SpoilerShow

We'll meet some Neridi soon... most of the crew of Mozin's Prophet's Reason are Neridi rather than Barsam.

Here's the five-second overview:

Neridi are genderless until they reach puberty, at which point they either become male or female. Most become female. Young females are pampered and form the core of family groups. As they age, after each pregnancy a female has a chance to transition to male (of the second type). Most Neridi subcultures are matrilineal, but since the leader females frequently transition to males, that means there are constant shifts in leadership, and the successors tend to be very young and inexperienced. This is part of why despite being very cooperative and peaceful, Neridi politics are a mess (it was a Neridi succession dispute that precipitated the Loroi civil war of 1790-1795), and why there is a sort of shadow government of retired monarchs who are now male (sort of similar to the Japanese "insei" emperors of the Heian period).

Young males tend to be adventurous and nomadic, traveling and having numerous liaisons with females as far and wide as they can. They often assume roles that support this lifestyle, such as traveling entertainers, artists, and occasionally traders (though this is too serious a profession for many young males). Though they're outside the family group, young females find them irresistible, and so they father the majority of children. Eventually, if someone hasn't murder them, they tire out and transition to males of the second type.

Males of the second type represent the majority of the Neridi population, and they are either males or females who have transitioned past the optimal breeding period. Because they live a long time, most Neridi will spend most of their lives in this state. Second-type males are functionally male, but they very rarely breed, partially because their reproductive drives have atrophied, and partially because they are not usually desired by the females. Most useful functions of Neridi family and society are performed by the second-type males. But to be clear... they still have a lot of sex with both males and females that reinforces social bonds... it's just that this doesn't usually result in pregnancies.

A Neridi who undergoes a gender shift often also experiences dramatic shifts in personality, and so he or she may change interests or careers, or even change names.

[Moon Moth]

As they age, after each pregnancy a female has a chance to transition to male (of the second type).

Huh. There's no way back? Females are limited to the ones that become female after puberty, and there's a one-way transition to male-of-the-second-type after enough pregnancies? I guess that's no worse than what baseline humans do - more females to start with, but fewer with many children.

Most Neridi subcultures are matrilineal, but since the leader females frequently transition to males, that means there are constant shifts in leadership, and the successors tend to be very young and inexperienced. This is part of why despite being very cooperative and peaceful, Neridi politics are a mess (it was a Neridi succession dispute that precipitated the Loroi civil war of 1790-1795), and why there is a sort of shadow government of retired monarchs who are now male (sort of similar to the Japanese "insei" emperors of the Heian period).

It naively seems to me as though self-aware, competent Neridi leaders would refrain from sex or use some form of birth control? But maybe abstention would be socially impractical, and contraception would be physically impractical. Or maybe they're fatalistic about the process, and have worked out some philosophical rationalization for it. I can't wait to find out!

[Arioch]

As they age, after each pregnancy a female has a chance to transition to male (of the second type).

Huh. There's no way back? Females are limited to the ones that become female after puberty, and there's a one-way transition to male-of-the-second-type after enough pregnancies? I guess that's no worse than what baseline humans do - more females to start with, but fewer with many children.

In this setup as the population ages, the percentage of females decreases, and since Neridi are very long-lived, this means that in a mature population the majority of individuals are male. This causes the birth rate to tail off, and so unlike the Loroi, the Neridi can maintain stable population numbers without much in the way of external population controls.

I think it's possible for a male to transition back to female, certainly artificially, and perhaps it makes sense that it could happen naturally if a group of males find themselves without any females. However, I think there may be problems with fertility for a de-transitioning female, especially if she's older than a certain age, and there may be social taboos associated with this.

Most Neridi subcultures are matrilineal, but since the leader females frequently transition to males, that means there are constant shifts in leadership, and the successors tend to be very young and inexperienced. This is part of why despite being very cooperative and peaceful, Neridi politics are a mess (it was a Neridi succession dispute that precipitated the Loroi civil war of 1790-1795), and why there is a sort of shadow government of retired monarchs who are now male (sort of similar to the Japanese "insei" emperors of the Heian period).

It naively seems to me as though self-aware, competent Neridi leaders would refrain from sex or use some form of birth control? But maybe abstention would be socially impractical, and contraception would be physically impractical. Or maybe they're fatalistic about the process, and have worked out some philosophical rationalization for it. I can't wait to find out!

That's a good point, though I think that refusing to have any children at all (and thus having no heir) would be a destabilizing factor, encouraging other claimants with more secure succession lines to make a play for the monarchy. But there are multiple factors affecting transition; an important one is that transition is less likely if there are no other females around. So I can imaging reverse-harem setups in which only males are allowed in the presence of the monarch. But I think most often the monarch is just a figurehead, since by definition she's a very young individual in a society of very long-lived individuals.

In the aforementioned Heian Japan insei system, the emperors would often retire at a relatively young age, so there could be as many as four or five "retired emperors" active at the same time, turning up palace intrigue to eleven.

[gigachad]

Well, since such interesting topics have gone, can you ask a couple of three?
First, I guess this question has been asked many times already, but in the eyes of Loroi, would human men be attractive? if so, for example, high growth and muscularity would be perceived as a positive trait or would it be outright disgusting?
second question: would the lack of telepathy greatly reduce the attractiveness in the eyes of the loroi?
third question: access to a huge number of human men would arouse interest among civilians?

[avatar576]

Well, since such interesting topics have gone, can you ask a couple of three?
First, I guess this question has been asked many times already, but in the eyes of Loroi, would human men be attractive? if so, for example, high growth and muscularity would be perceived as a positive trait or would it be outright disgusting?
second question: would the lack of telepathy greatly reduce the attractiveness in the eyes of the loroi?
third question: access to a huge number of human men would arouse interest among civilians?

This has been pretty well covered in other threads.

1.) As always, it depends on the individual, but for most Loroi, the average human male falls outside of the range of what they would consider attractive. You can see this in the Loroi characters we've met so far. Talon and Beryl have demonstrated some level of outright attraction towards him, but this may also be perceived as mere curiosity rather than genuine attraction. Spiral is friendly but not exactly "flirty." Most others keep a professional distance from him and have given no indication of physical attraction.

2. I suspect that it would. The fact that Loroi actively avoid physical contact with each other should tell you that it's not the physical intimacy that makes sex pleasurable for them. It's mostly the telepathic connection. Again, that's not to say that it wouldn't pique the curiosity of some individuals. But I think they would find the experience disappointing and unfulfilling.

3. See above. It wouldn't serve any purpose to them. Loroi-Human hybrids are impossible, so sex for procreation is out. And the lack of telepathic connection would make for an unsatisfying experience. And "access" is another problem. Civilians probably don't get the opportunity to do much traveling outside of their home system. And it's 200 light years to the nearest human male. That takes "sex tourism" to a whole new level that the average Loroi civilian can't and most likely isn't willing to bother with.

In short, human males have little to offer that the Loroi want or need.

[Arioch]

As was said, it's mainly down to individual tastes. For example, if the Loroi females were taller than human men and more masculine, I'm sure that there would still be human men who were attracted to that, even though it's outside the norm for what human males are supposed to be attracted to.

Similarly, the fact that humans have no telepathic signature and are incapable of impregnating a Loroi will be huge turn-offs to some, perhaps most Loroi females. But I imagine there will be some for whom a mute live pink sex doll is just what they're looking for.

I don't think warriors and workers will be too much different in this sense... the main drive for sex is to reproduce, and human males can't help out there. And if being able to reproduce was THAT important to a worker female, she probably wouldn't have dropped out of the warrior trials to begin with. Just having some kinky fun with a mute live pink sex doll might or might not appeal to a Loroi female depending on her tastes, probably without much regard to whether she's a warrior or worker. (Most warriors don't get a lot of sex time with males either.)