Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[Keklas Rekobah]

Although physical principles would be the same, I wonder about their implementation.

Q1: Would an electrical engineer from Earth (TL-8) have too much difficulty with Loroi technology to recognize components without extensive training?

Q2: Would the EE at least be able to make a distinction between a light dimmer and a thermostat?

Q3: Are most Loroi devices purely monolithic -- single blocks of silicon semiconductor material with external contact points -- or are they built up from more discrete components?

[Cthulhu]

Q1: Would an electrical engineer from Earth (TL-8) have too much difficulty with Loroi technology to recognize components without extensive training?

A Loroi Gallen Lopeiladi (Chief Artificer) Ardent Effort arrives on Earth to assess the Human capabilities to aid the war effort. Which are quite dismal, but the pink-skins could at least assemble some simple batteries. Even a trained miros can do that, right?

Gallen: (shows a blueprint) "You shall produce 2048 shipstone batteries a month."
Humans: (not understanding anything) "Uhm, how do we make those?"
Gallen: (thinking, Damn barbarians) "Just fill a beryllium crystal casing with metallic hydrogen and stuff a monopol magnet inside, what's there to know."
Humans:
Gallen: "You have two gas giants, so mine the stuff, and beryllium is found everywhere!"
Humans:
Gallen: Whatever, morale relief duty it is. Bring me eight of your best specimens!

P.S. Whoever gets the utterly obscure reference, will get a bonus!

[Quickdraw101]

Alright, that clears up most of what I was wondering. Although something tells me that the surprise Orgus contact with Humanity had the Terran Navy scrambling ships towards the unknown contacts at the time. I assume any hypothetical contact with Humanity or someone else they couldn't detect, suddenly popping into electronic sensor range, might piss the Loroi off, and make them assume enemy attackers inbound. Or possibly some drone.

[Arioch]

I doubt that an engineer would be able to determine the function of an electronic component from another country, much less an alien culture, unless he could take it apart or closely observe it in use. The encapsulation and labeling will be completely unfamiliar.

I think Loroi devices will be modular where it makes sense for the device in question. We have computers on a chip, but we still make individual resistors and the like. Though I think as technology progresses, there will be fewer and fewer cases in which you can just solder on a resistor and make a broken integrated device work. Assuming that we're talking about devices at the scale of an individual's gear.

[Arioch]

Alright, that clears up most of what I was wondering. Although something tells me that the surprise Orgus contact with Humanity had the Terran Navy scrambling ships towards the unknown contacts at the time. I assume any hypothetical contact with Humanity or someone else they couldn't detect, suddenly popping into electronic sensor range, might piss the Loroi off, and make them assume enemy attackers inbound. Or possibly some drone.

The response would depend on the circumstances, the context, and who was making decisions at the location of the incident. There's no standard procedure for what happens when your strategic plans get thrown out the window.

[Keklas Rekobah]

@ARIOCH: This will probably trigger a spoiler alert, but would a Loroi Soroin Paset "Shoe Girl" be treated with greater respect by the other officers than a Terran Soroin Paset communications specialist?

I have been thinking about the ramifications of Wolf329's "Perrein Citadel" fanfic.

[Cthulhu]

@ARIOCH: This will probably trigger a spoiler alert, but would a Loroi Soroin Paset "Shoe Girl" be treated with greater respect by the other officers than a Terran Soroin Paset communications specialist?

I have been thinking about the ramifications of Wolf329's "Perrein Citadel" fanfic.

I doubt that the Loroi would try and incorporate any aliens into their ranks. They are insular, distrustful of outsiders, and convinced of their superiority. Most importantly, their communications are based on telepathy, so a "mute" will be a curiosity at best, but probably more of a liability. Cooperating with alien ships is likely the only compromise the Loroi are willing to make. Of course, the Golim are an exception, but they count as equipment.

[Keklas Rekobah]

Most importantly, their communications are based on telepathy, so a "mute" will be a curiosity at best, but probably more of a liability.

Antimony's position on the bridge of the Tempest indicates an officer is in charge of maintaining radio communications with the rest of the fleet, and with ships crewed by non-telepathic allies.

[opinion=mine]

IF* humans would ever be incorporated into a starship crew, or (more likely) into the crew of a rear-echelon post, he or she would likely be given a position that is: (1) not likely to compromise the ship/station or the mission, (2) not have any real authority within the chains of command, (3) not likely to require sanzai capability, and (4) be in full view of as many Loroi as possible so as to ensure the human's compliance with every spoken order.

[/opinion]

(*And a mighty big "IF" at that.)

[Cthulhu]

Antimony's position on the bridge of the Tempest indicates an officer is in charge of maintaining radio communications with the rest of the fleet, and with ships crewed by non-telepathic allies.

But most on-bridge communications are conducted with telepathy. It is faster, has more bandwidth and is simply more efficient. Therefore, Loroi will use that whenever possible.

[opinion=mine]

IF* humans would ever be incorporated into a starship crew, or (more likely) into the crew of a rear-echelon post, he or she would likely be given a position that is: (1) not likely to compromise the ship/station or the mission, (2) not have any real authority within the chains of command, (3) not likely to require sanzai capability, and (4) be in full view of as many Loroi as possible so as to ensure the human's compliance with every spoken order.

[/opinion]

(*And a mighty big "IF" at that.)

This will leave very few positions open. Probably too few to make it worthwhile, considering all the logistical, command, crew cohesion and morale issues. And half of those possible positions are already occupied by the Golim. With how fast the Loroi are able to replenish personnel losses, the crucial bottleneck should be shipbuilding capacity, anyway.

[Keklas Rekobah]

I see the situation I mentioned arising partially from the fact that the entire TCA fleet is far smaller than a single Loroi battle group, and partially from the need to maintain a strong alliance with the Terrans.

Both situations could be addressed by either: (1) posting a few Terrans to non-crucial billets within the Loroi military-industrial complex, (2) building a lot of smaller ships specifically for Terran crews with just a few Loroi liaisons on board, or (3) committing mass genocide against the entire Terran species to keep them out of the way and to prevent them from siding with the Umiak.

Hypothetically speaking, which do you think would be more likely to occur?

[Arioch]

@ARIOCH: This will probably trigger a spoiler alert, but would a Loroi Soroin Paset "Shoe Girl" be treated with greater respect by the other officers than a Terran Soroin Paset communications specialist?

There's no such thing as a Terran Soroin Paset. Aliens can't hold Loroi caste titles; in the rare cases that aliens operate on Loroi vessels, they are given separate titles. For example, the Loroi are addressing Alex with a word that means "skipper" or "captain" in terms of one commanding a ship (most likely Topoin), but not with a specific Loroi caste title such as Torret or Mazeit.

Most importantly, their communications are based on telepathy, so a "mute" will be a curiosity at best, but probably more of a liability.

Antimony's position on the bridge of the Tempest indicates an officer is in charge of maintaining radio communications with the rest of the fleet, and with ships crewed by non-telepathic allies.

At one point I had positions for a Loroi Uhura and supporting staff, but then it occurred to me that having a communications officer at that tech level would be like still having human operators in elevators. In a datalinked battlegroup there would be WAY too much information traffic for one officer or even one staff to handle, so communications management is broken up by department and with heavy use of automation. The large video displays on the bridge can be controlled from a number of positions.

• The tactical analyst (7) and her staff have access to all sensor input, and that includes radio/etc. signals, but they are mostly occupied with the tactical picture and not communications.
• Inter-ship communications as relates to fleet movement are handled mostly autonomously, managed by Ops and her staff or directly by CON1 or CON2 (p.73).
• Inter-ship communications as relates to coordinated targeting is mostly autonomous, managed by the Fire Control staff (5, 6, 13, 15) (p.76).
• The intelligence office (9) handles other inter-ship communications, especially with non-Fleet units (p.86).
• The subsystems chief (10) and her staff handle issues related to the communications equipment itself.

[Cthulhu]

I see the situation I mentioned arising partially from the fact that the entire TCA fleet is far smaller than a single Loroi battle group, and partially from the need to maintain a strong alliance with the Terrans.

Both situations could be addressed by either: (1) posting a few Terrans to non-crucial billets within the Loroi military-industrial complex, (2) building a lot of smaller ships specifically for Terran crews with just a few Loroi liaisons on board, or (3) committing mass genocide against the entire Terran species to keep them out of the way and to prevent them from siding with the Umiak.

Hypothetically speaking, which do you think would be more likely to occur?

Neither, actually. The Union has a number of other species, after all, so there are enough precedents on how to integrate aliens and their space forces into the Empire. Without enslaving or obliterating them, of course. Long story short, the Loroi form the actual "navy", while the members retain some "coast guard" capabilities in their respective territories. Then, there are also the Agumo mercenaries that carry out various quasi-military tasks, like courier, picket, recon and spec-ops transport. But while the ships of different races may occasionally operate along each other, the crews generally don't mix.

I'd guess that aliens on board of Loroi combat vessels would be either liason officers, tech experts, diplomats or the enthralled Golim. But neither of those would actually belong to the crew.


@Arioch: I don't know whether this belongs here or in the Umiak question thread, but how susceptible are the bugs regarding Loroi psi-powers? Pretty average, or are there any specific strengths or weaknesses? Tempo managed to take over one of them rather easily.

[Keklas Rekobah]

. . . it occurred to me that having a communications officer at that tech level would be like still having human operators in elevators. In a datalinked battlegroup there would be WAY too much information traffic for one officer or even one staff to handle, so communications management is broken up by department and with heavy use of automation. The large video displays on the bridge can be controlled from a number of positions.

I understand that most of the tactical bandwidth would be taken up by automated telemetry and video, just like in our real world, and that vox comms would be sporadic.  But whose job would it be to monitor the status of the comm gear and make adjustments or repairs as needed?  I assume the Gallen for that.  Would there be a specialized station or compartment for that, or would this function also be distributed among the bridge crew?

I am trying to understand the impact Loroi technology might have on a Terran engineer who specializes in "bleeding-edge" Terran technology during Alex's time -- something other than "Don't touch that!" every few minutes.

[Arioch]

I don't know whether this belongs here or in the Umiak question thread, but how susceptible are the bugs regarding Loroi psi-powers? Pretty average, or are there any specific strengths or weaknesses? Tempo managed to take over one of them rather easily.

About average. In RPG terms, I guess you could say that Umiak are high in Intelligence but low in Willpower... it's probably helpful in a Mind Control situation that Umiak individuals are accustomed to doing what they're told without question.

. . . it occurred to me that having a communications officer at that tech level would be like still having human operators in elevators. In a datalinked battlegroup there would be WAY too much information traffic for one officer or even one staff to handle, so communications management is broken up by department and with heavy use of automation. The large video displays on the bridge can be controlled from a number of positions.

I understand that most of the tactical bandwidth would be taken up by automated telemetry and video, just like in our real world, and that vox comms would be sporadic. But whose job would it be to monitor the status of the comm gear and make adjustments or repairs as needed? I assume the Gallen for that. Would there be a specialized station or compartment for that, or would this function also be distributed among the bridge crew?

The Subsystems officer (10) is responsible for monitoring the status of the ship's systems and coordinating with the engineers on maintenance and repair. The officer sitting here may be a junior Gallen, but that's kind of a waste of an engineer to have her butt in a seat on the bridge, so I think it's more often a Soroin. While it may be nice to have Scotty sitting in a chair on the bridge so the director doesn't have to cut away to Engineering every time he has a line, in the real world Chief Engineers stay down in Engineering.

(aside: in my research on how merchant ships operate, I have found that the Chief Engineer of a ship often has a rank that is equivalent to that of the Captain, and that he typically has more assistant engineers than the Captain has officers. So the Chief Engineer is kind of the king of his domain within the ship.)

I am trying to understand the impact Loroi technology might have on a Terran engineer who specializes in "bleeding-edge" Terran technology during Alex's time -- something other than "Don't touch that!" every few minutes.

If we're talking about Terran engineers reverse-engineering Loroi technology, then they can pull it apart and poke and prod it, and I think they'd have a pretty good chance of figuring out how it works. But if we're talking about a Terran engineer on a Loroi vessel, he or she would be pretty useless without a considerable amount of training. If this is an emergency situation, then a Terran engineer is more useful than a Loroi non-engineer, and hopefully there would be a Loroi nearby to explain what a device does and to answer questions... but if this is a case where the Terran engineer was assigned to the ship to assist the engineering staff, I don't think this would happen without some kind of preparatory training.

[Keklas Rekobah]

Awright!!  Now I am getting the gist of it.

So it would be kinda like an Eagle Scout with a Ham license trying to maintain the collider at CERN -- his intentions might be good, be he may end up ruining a lot of equipment and getting invited to go home.

[Krulle]

I am trying to understand the impact Loroi technology might have on a Terran engineer who specializes in "bleeding-edge" Terran technology during Alex's time -- something other than "Don't touch that!" every few minutes.

I am pretty sure that at StarTrek level, any engineer however well trained will have a big "Don't touch that" training before being assigned to a Starship.
That kind of stuff will only be serviceable by specialised machinery, and not by SwissKnife all-around hand-held tools...

I mean, working with a hand-held scalpel on machinery that's allegedly on nano-meter precision levels?

[Arioch]

Especially if you can't read the "DANGER: HIGH VOLTAGE" sign because you don't know Trade.

[Bamax]

I don't know whether this belongs here or in the Umiak question thread, but how susceptible are the bugs regarding Loroi psi-powers? Pretty average, or are there any specific strengths or weaknesses? Tempo managed to take over one of them rather easily.

About average. In RPG terms, I guess you could say that Umiak are high in Intelligence but low in Willpower... it's probably helpful in a Mind Control situation that Umiak individuals are accustomed to doing what they're told without question.

. . . it occurred to me that having a communications officer at that tech level would be like still having human operators in elevators. In a datalinked battlegroup there would be WAY too much information traffic for one officer or even one staff to handle, so communications management is broken up by department and with heavy use of automation. The large video displays on the bridge can be controlled from a number of positions.

I understand that most of the tactical bandwidth would be taken up by automated telemetry and video, just like in our real world, and that vox comms would be sporadic. But whose job would it be to monitor the status of the comm gear and make adjustments or repairs as needed? I assume the Gallen for that. Would there be a specialized station or compartment for that, or would this function also be distributed among the bridge crew?

The Subsystems officer (10) is responsible for monitoring the status of the ship's systems and coordinating with the engineers on maintenance and repair. The officer sitting here may be a junior Gallen, but that's kind of a waste of an engineer to have her butt in a seat on the bridge, so I think it's more often a Soroin. While it may be nice to have Scotty sitting in a chair on the bridge so the director doesn't have to cut away to Engineering every time he has a line, in the real world Chief Engineers stay down in Engineering.

(aside: in my research on how merchant ships operate, I have found that the Chief Engineer of a ship often has a rank that is equivalent to that of the Captain, and that he typically has more assistant engineers than the Captain has officers. So the Chief Engineer is kind of the king of his domain within the ship.)

I am trying to understand the impact Loroi technology might have on a Terran engineer who specializes in "bleeding-edge" Terran technology during Alex's time -- something other than "Don't touch that!" every few minutes.

If we're talking about Terran engineers reverse-engineering Loroi technology, then they can pull it apart and poke and prod it, and I think they'd have a pretty good chance of figuring out how it works. But if we're talking about a Terran engineer on a Loroi vessel, he or she would be pretty useless without a considerable amount of training. If this is an emergency situation, then a Terran engineer is more useful than a Loroi non-engineer, and hopefully there would be a Loroi nearby to explain what a device does and to answer questions... but if this is a case where the Terran engineer was assigned to the ship to assist the engineering staff, I don't think this would happen without some kind of preparatory training.

So the umiak are accustomed to doing what they are told without question. Wow. Reminds me of the religion I was raised up with. Sure the morality was high, Yet the problem was that leaders admitted that things they once taught were true were not actually true so they would revise it over and over. At the same time claiming divine guidance for any changes made in teachings (even if they later turn out wrong as well lol and need to changed too, I have seen it happen).

Doing what one is told without question can definitely be dangerous. Generally speaking, I think if something does not add up, then there is good reason to question.

Loyalty i believe is based largely on trust, and to the extent such trust is actually earned, that decides just how much a human is willing to hand over their critical thinking skills and follow and do as told without question.

The Umiak still keep dying in droves against Stillstorm, so I can only presume that despite the basic desire for self-preservation, the Umiak must think that the only way to win is the way they have going at it. And with their new advantage they have more of a chance than ever. Arioch did mention that the Umiak were less creative, so I could totally see their command structure insisting that wiping out the Loroi is the ONLY way, even when other options are available to them. They seem not unlike religious zealots who see the world in black and white.... while I could be wrong.... I just think it is a possibility for them at least on an individual level for some for sure.

[Keklas Rekobah]

Especially if you can't read the "DANGER: HIGH VOLTAGE" sign because you don't know Trade.

From the Lexicon: "DANGER LARGE POWER"

"DALLETE DIRRED LOLAS" (L->R)

"SALOL DERRID ETELLAD" (L<-R)

(Can't post trade font)

[gaerzi]

IF* humans would ever be incorporated into a starship crew, or (more likely) into the crew of a rear-echelon post, he or she would likely be given a position that is: (1) not likely to compromise the ship/station or the mission, (2) not have any real authority within the chains of command, (3) not likely to require sanzai capability, and (4) be in full view of as many Loroi as possible so as to ensure the human's compliance with every spoken order.

The only roles I could see for a human on board a Loroi ship would be liaison officer or, potentially, special advisor (if for some reason the human has special insight that the Loroi lack, perhaps for tracing a path through Human space to attack the Umiak from an unexpected direction or something).

Can't be any bridge role, the lack of telepathic communication would be too much of a hindrance for Loroi command and control, especially in combat.

Can't be any engineering or maintenance role, because humans would not be familiar with Loroi tech and Loroi distrust would not allow such a perfect position for sabotage. Can't even be something like ship cook because what would human know of Loroi cuisine and also again distrust means they could fear poisoning.