Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[Arioch]

Just a general tech question. If I remember right, you said that the artificial gravity in the ships in Outsider is something that is discovered as part of the development of the jump drive. Is there any way to adjust the artificial gravity for parts of a ship, or is it basically uniform throughout the ship?

Yes, it's possible to have different artificial gravity in different parts of the ship.

[inxsi]

Just a general tech question. If I remember right, you said that the artificial gravity in the ships in Outsider is something that is discovered as part of the development of the jump drive. Is there any way to adjust the artificial gravity for parts of a ship, or is it basically uniform throughout the ship?

Yes, it's possible to have different artificial gravity in different parts of the ship.

Interesting - sorry, should have asked the follow up questions but was not expecting that as the answer

How quickly could it be adjusted? Can the gravity be oriented differently than the floor being down?

[Arioch]

Just a general tech question. If I remember right, you said that the artificial gravity in the ships in Outsider is something that is discovered as part of the development of the jump drive. Is there any way to adjust the artificial gravity for parts of a ship, or is it basically uniform throughout the ship?

Yes, it's possible to have different artificial gravity in different parts of the ship.

Interesting - sorry, should have asked the follow up questions but was not expecting that as the answer

How quickly could it be adjusted? Can the gravity be oriented differently than the floor being down?

That would probably depend on how a particular system was designed. Theoretically it could be nearly instantaneous and able to redirect to any direction, but presumably there would trade-offs for making a system that's highly and quickly variable. I think most military systems wouldn't need that much variability; probably the most they need is to change the settings in the hangar to allow for normal-G work and zero-G flight operations, but that wouldn't require very rapid change.

[spacewhale]

I imagine rapidly changing from Zero G to G would be more dangerous than not. Something something falling Minmei from Do you remember Love.

[Krulle]

Having quickly adjustable artificial gravity, and working it locally, is a wonderful weapon against boarders.

Just increase the gravity in rooms where only the boarders are, and you gain quite an advantage.

But then boarding is only done for very high importance targets, I presume.

[SVlad]

The artificial gravity generators should be adjustable as fast, as main engines with theirs 30 g acceleration.

Or do they use different system as inertial compensators?

[Werra]

An artificial gravity difference that is noticeable enough to affect physical movement seems like a bad thing to have in a running space ship.

Say you've got a pipe pumping a liquid through three rooms. Wouldn't it mess with the flow rate if the middle room had a higher gravity?

[Arioch]

The artificial gravity generators should be adjustable as fast, as main engines with theirs 30 g acceleration.

Or do they use different system as inertial compensators?

My thought is that they are part of the same system, and that it doesn't ramp up and down as acceleration changes, but rather counteracts acceleration up to its capacity.

An artificial gravity difference that is noticeable enough to affect physical movement seems like a bad thing to have in a running space ship.

Say you've got a pipe pumping a liquid through three rooms. Wouldn't it mess with the flow rate if the middle room had a higher gravity?

Unless the gravity was really extreme, I don't think it would much affect the pressure in a pipe, since pipes on board a starship would need to operate across a wide spectrum of gravities.

[Mk_C]

Wouldn't it mess with the flow rate if the middle room had a higher gravity?

The same way acceleration would. If the artificial gravity counteracts the effects of acceleration with sufficient precision, then there is no issue with it. If it doesn't then the artificial gravity is not your only problem.

My thought is that they are part of the same system, and that it doesn't ramp up and down as acceleration changes, but rather counteracts acceleration up to its capacity.

Isn't that literally the same thing described in different ways?

[Arioch]

My thought is that they are part of the same system, and that it doesn't ramp up and down as acceleration changes, but rather counteracts acceleration up to its capacity.

Isn't that literally the same thing described in different ways?

One requires the inertial dampers to be constantly tuned to changing acceleration, the other doesn't.

[Dahak]

Amplifiers do not require power. They can be thought of as functioning like a lens... is the shape and material that does the job, rather than using power to boost the effect.

So rather like

Samms did so, and there snapped around his wrist a platinum-iridium bracelet carrying, wrist-watch-wise, a lenticular something at which the Tellurian stared in stupefied amazement. It seemed to be composed of thousands-millions-of tiny gems, each of which emitted pulsatingly all the colors of the spectrum; it was throwing out- broadcasting -a turbulent flood of writhing, polychromatic light.

Except made of something other than pure thought.

[Snoofman]

How do loroi wash or bathe on starships? Keeping water from damaging a ship's functioning components would be one hell of a challenge.

[Dan Wyatt]

How do loroi wash or bathe on starships? Keeping water from damaging a ship's functioning components would be one hell of a challenge.

Already discussed
Personal washrooms>Japanese style wash basins>Bathing pool

[Arioch]

Just have airlock-style entry barriers to the washroom to keep the water from flooding elsewhere.

[Bamax]

Hopefully this has not already been answered but I wanted to know just a few questions,as I am familar with KSP (Kerbal Space Program).


1. I know the story as is could not happen otherwise, so is that why Loroi pilot their own space war vessels? It is an easy thing to automate robo-combat vessels that could reduce war casualties and screen Loroi command vessels from attack. It seems a rather logical course to reduce death. It would seem a better tactic than loosing as many crews to combatas they have.

2. I presume Loroi use super efficient fusion drives for space propulsion.

The implicatiions of this are huge, since unless they are shunting that waste heat into another location or dimension that means their vessels can generate and survive hotter than the sun temperatures required for artificial fusion. That is why IRL fusion is so hard, you can generate it with lower sun-like temperatures with gravity to compress mass via fusion, so maybe that's how since they do have gravity generators? Containment via magnetic fields has proven slilppery IRL as plasma leaks out and cools and kills the fusion process.

3. Why don't the Loroi use antimatter bombs to wipe out enemy fleets?

I know AM is expensive to make, but if you have even a few hundred kilograms of it you can wipe out EVERYTHING within a few hundred kilometers from radiative heat alone by some calculations I have seen online.

Check out post here about a thousand kilogram AM bomb blast radius:

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/in ... nt-3817415

500 kilometers! In space from Earth is 200 kilometers!

Obviously you could get by with less than a thousand kilograms of AM and still wipe out much of a Umiak fleet since they seem to LOVE tight formations.

Realistically tight formations that are unshielded only help if they are using themselvesas sacrificial shields for whatever is coming behind them.


4. The Loroi-Umiak war seems to have been bordering on attrition, at least until the story began.

Realistically though the Loroi do not seem to stand much of a chance unless their allies have sufficient resources to counter Umiak logistics.

Logistics tend to win wars more than tactics or strategy. And that is exactly what the Umiak have a plethora of.

This is almost like Japan vs the USA in WW2. They were going to lose no matter what unless they could end the war quickly.

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/in ... nt-3901317

[Arioch]

1. I know the story as is could not happen otherwise, so is that why Loroi pilot their own space war vessels? It is an easy thing to automate robo-combat vessels that could reduce war casualties and screen Loroi command vessels from attack. It seems a rather logical course to reduce death. It would seem a better tactic than loosing as many crews to combatas they have.

As you say, if starships could be effectively automated, the story could not take place.

There are two main problems with automated fleets. The first is that drones work fine until something goes wrong, and then the unit is usually a loss. Automated systems have very limited ability to repair or even troubleshoot themselves. And a starship is too expensive to be expendable.

The second is a questions of command and decision making. Since there is no FTL communication other than the starships themselves, automated fleets cannot be operated remotely from another star system. Putting the fate of your species in the hands of AI is problematic. Even if you have control vessels in the same system, you are still at risk of the enemy somehow blocking or even usurping control of automated units... especially for the Umiak, since one of their opponents in particular is very good at hacking automated systems.

For small craft that are more expendable, I think automation makes more sense, and I imagine that Loroi fighters are capable of operating without a pilot. But I think that manned craft will almost always outperform unmanned craft, so the Loroi will use pilots as long as they have them available. Neither the Loroi nor Umiak place the same value on individual lives as our current culture does.

2. I presume Loroi use super efficient fusion drives for space propulsion.

No, they use a fuel which converts matter directly to energy, similar to a matter-antimatter annihilation.

3. Why don't the Loroi use antimatter bombs to wipe out enemy fleets?

They do use antimatter bombs (or equivalent), but in space there is no medium to form a shockwave, and the heat and light from an explosion falls off rapidly with distance. The 500 km quoted in the thread you referenced was for a bomb going off in atmosphere, not in space. Realistic starship formations in this milieu would be many hundreds of kilometers apart from each other. They are depicted as closer for the sake of the comic. I had originally intended to depict them more realistically, in which there is only ever one ship in a panel, but I've found that doing that doesn't get the point across to the reader that there are many ships involved in the combat.

4. The Loroi-Umiak war seems to have been bordering on attrition, at least until the story began.

Realistically though the Loroi do not seem to stand much of a chance unless their allies have sufficient resources to counter Umiak logistics.

Logistics tend to win wars more than tactics or strategy. And that is exactly what the Umiak have a plethora of.

Up to this point in the war, the Loroi have been able to counter the Umiak fleet's superior production capacity by using their Farseers to predict when and where Umiak attacks are coming, and concentrate their forces to inflict disproportionate losses. While the Umiak who can't see the Loroi coming must keep a very large defensive reserve along any part of the border than the Loroi might attack.

[Bamax]

1. I know the story as is could not happen otherwise, so is that why Loroi pilot their own space war vessels? It is an easy thing to automate robo-combat vessels that could reduce war casualties and screen Loroi command vessels from attack. It seems a rather logical course to reduce death. It would seem a better tactic than loosing as many crews to combatas they have.

As you say, if starships could be effectively automated, the story could not take place.

There are two main problems with automated fleets. The first is that drones work fine until something goes wrong, and then the unit is usually a loss. Automated systems have very limited ability to repair or even troubleshoot themselves. And a starship is too expensive to be expendable.

The second is a questions of command and decision making. Since there is no FTL communication other than the starships themselves, automated fleets cannot be operated remotely from another star system. Putting the fate of your species in the hands of AI is problematic. Even if you have control vessels in the same system, you are still at risk of the enemy somehow blocking or even usurping control of automated units... especially for the Umiak, since one of their opponents in particular is very good at hacking automated systems.

2. I presume Loroi use super efficient fusion drives for space propulsion.

No, they use a fuel which converts matter directly to energy, similar to a matter-antimatter annihilation.

3. Why don't the Loroi use antimatter bombs to wipe out enemy fleets?

They do use antimatter bombs (or equivalent), but in space there is no medium to form a shockwave, and the heat and light from an explosion falls off rapidly with distance. The 500 km quoted in the thread you referenced was for a bomb going off in atmosphere, not in space. Realistic starship formations in this milieu would be many hundreds of kilometers apart from each other. They are depicted as closer for the sake of the comic. I had originally intended to depict them more realistically, in which there is only ever one ship in a panel, but I've found that doing that doesn't get the point across to the reader that there are many ships involved in the combat.

4. The Loroi-Umiak war seems to have been bordering on attrition, at least until the story began.

Realistically though the Loroi do not seem to stand much of a chance unless their allies have sufficient resources to counter Umiak logistics.

Logistics tend to win wars more than tactics or strategy. And that is exactly what the Umiak have a plethora of.

Up to this point in the war, the Loroi have been able to counter the Umiak fleet's superior production capacity by using their Farseers to predict when and where Umiak attacks are coming, and concentrate their forces to inflict disproportionate losses. While the Umiak who can't see the Loroi coming must keep a very large defensive reserve along any part of the border than the Loroi might attack.

Hmmm....even so, they could still use manned command vessels and use a bunch of robocraft to screen them.

Less drama for the story that way though I know.

The hacking I grant you though. Umiak seem sneaky enough. I tend to think IRL Earth military would handle most scenarious better if given equivalent scifi tech.


If the Loroi rely on tech that yields AM energy yields then they could also make the equivalent of AM particle beams shot at relativistic near lightspeed velocities.

Such beams could blow Umiak to shreds at lightsecond ranges.

Yes I know particle beams IRL spread out over distance like laser beams and and can be deflected with magnetic fields.

Even so, magnetically neutral partucle beams can be made IRLtoo,and given that Loroi can make plasma beams hold with scifi carrier waves, this should or could be something they are working on if not already have.

AM particle beams would be just like hittilng targets with AM warheads, just quickly and efficiently at far distances.

They could even make bomb pumped particle beam missiles that fire on multiple targets at once using AM power beams.

Real life has a precedent, but the Loroi version would be better.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Excalibur

I can only presume the Loroi rely more on tactics and strategy than overwhelming tech superiority....which is what they should focus on.

Super weapons....instead of comptent commanders will defeat the Umiak regardless of the numbers.


Even AM bombs are still viable and can destroy stuff at ranges beyond nuke damage in space.

Powerful enough nukes in space can still do some light ablative damage at a kilometer. AM or the Loroi equivalent if powerful enough I reckon could at least wipe out three kilometers or somewhat less with sheer thermal radiation.


Which would be a good counter to all those missiles the Umiak love to spam.

Basically if think if given competent human command of their tech or even someone who developed tech with my suggestions, the Loroi would start winning.

Maybe the automated fleets is a bad idea against the Umiak,but superweapons I suggested I do not think are.


EDIT: I think it clever how you made the Loroi propulsion system. A fuel that converts into energy mixed with chemical propellant at AM level energy transfer levels? That's really potent stuff! They still use some kind of reactor...likely one made of unobtanium elements since uranium does not do nearly as good and neither is it AM nor fusion.

It shows you know things about real spaceflight since such an explaination at least on the surface makes plenty of sense. Obviously you do not have to defend fiction as it is a story. The less known sometimes about fictional tech the better unless it is being used in a really odd way.that calls attention to it.

Obviously if Loroi used pure mass to energy annihilation engines they would have photon rockets....and I reckon you know how destructive those are to anything in their wake behind them. And it is obvious they do not as they obviously mix reactors with propellant and burn it.

Given what I know of AM annihilation and the release of gamma rays, I wonder if Loroi reactors release such as well?

Since I can only presume they are using propellant heated by reactors that slowly ablate themselves into energy?

Like nuclear on steroids. Though it would also be cool if the reactor was actually chemical or particle unobtanium mixed with the propellant in discrete quantites and shot out the back.

That is more or less what Zubrin's NSWR is!

https://space.so/video/en/scott-manley/ ... r-imagined


If gamma radiation is part of exhaust, SSTO' starships are out due to radiation unless safer but less efficient drive shuttles are used. By the same token, the 'AM' Loroi vessels would need to be boosted by lesse efficient rocket boosters into space, wheret they could flip over and engage their 'AM' drives to make orbit.


Or perhaps they release most all their energy exhaust into visible light while heating the propellant? Would explain the long glowing exhaust plumes.

Yet with energy levels that high I would think it safer for an SSTO to lift off with chemical rockets and only engage the superiori ones when well enough away.

Loroi 'AM' drives burn hot enough plumes to turn ground into lava. You do not want lava pools every time you take off or land.

[boldilocks]

Powerful enough nukes in space can still do some light ablative damage at a kilometer. AM or the Loroi equivalent if powerful enough I reckon could at least wipe out three kilometers or somewhat less with sheer thermal radiation.

That sounds like a lot of nukes will be needed to cover a standard battlefront.

[Bamax]

Powerful enough nukes in space can still do some light ablative damage at a kilometer. AM or the Loroi equivalent if powerful enough I reckon could at least wipe out three kilometers or somewhat less with sheer thermal radiation.

That sounds like a lot of nukes will be needed to cover a standard battlefront.

It's best used for countering the missile spam the Umiak use.

Each Loroi vessel so equipped would be better protected than they are currently. The longer any engagement lasts the more casulties Umiak will take IF their missiles prove ineffective. Missiles are the only long range effective weapon they seem to use against Loroi.

An even better Loroi option would be bomb pumped laser missiles that blow up while firing multiple X-ray beams at once eliminating multiple missiles all at once.

Missiles are not hard to counter, it is only their high speed and numbers that make them a threat.

So the best counter is a method that takes out the wind from the Umiak's greatest weapon....missile spam.

If it can be countered effectively then Umiak are doomed since Loroi have farther beam range than Umiak vessels and can simply snipe them from afar without hindrance.

[boldilocks]

Powerful enough nukes in space can still do some light ablative damage at a kilometer. AM or the Loroi equivalent if powerful enough I reckon could at least wipe out three kilometers or somewhat less with sheer thermal radiation.

That sounds like a lot of nukes will be needed to cover a standard battlefront.

It's best used for countering the missile spam the Umiak use.

I get that, but my understanding is that the Umiak missile spam spans tens if not hundreds or thousands of kilometers. A 3 km diameter range anti-missile mine doesn't sound very effective.
I assume the loroi are already using anti-missile systems.