Arioch, I now have a request: a quick'n'dirty panel of Beryl telling Alex that plans have been changed - instead of taking him to Seren to speak with more military commanders, they're sending him to Barsam to learn the wonders of traditional tribal grass-skirt dances. Just because.cacambo43 wrote:I just keep freaking out that Arioch is going to die before Alex gets to Seren!
WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Moderator: Outsider Moderators
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
@ jerchio: brother your vox is on too loud that's why it's hurts
@ Cacambo: aroids has discussed the possibility of releasing the story IF he could finish the comic is whole ( all 7 chapters iirc) so I wouldn't t worry beside we could always cyberize Aroich if need be
@ at winters: your welcome
@ Arioch: ah the good old design problems, and the Barnum image & face to hand and repeat x10
Good to cya back Arioch
@ Cacambo: aroids has discussed the possibility of releasing the story IF he could finish the comic is whole ( all 7 chapters iirc) so I wouldn't t worry beside we could always cyberize Aroich if need be
@ at winters: your welcome
@ Arioch: ah the good old design problems, and the Barnum image & face to hand and repeat x10
Good to cya back Arioch
Last edited by NOMAD on Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am a wander, going from place to place without a home I am a NOMAD
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Just out of curiosity Arioch, as your last WIP update got me thinking (dangerous I know...), what references are you looking to, if at all with your interior shuttle design?
I was thinking maybe stuff like the flexible layout inside the C-130, or are you simply sitting down and just thinking, "If I was designing a shuttle space for max utility, what would I have?" ?
I was thinking maybe stuff like the flexible layout inside the C-130, or are you simply sitting down and just thinking, "If I was designing a shuttle space for max utility, what would I have?" ?
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
I do want the feel of a configurable military cargo transport, and so am looking to the details of modern transports like the C-17 (though not too many... military transports can look really shabby on the inside, with lots of exposed insulation and wiring and tubing), but in terms of layout I'm mostly just trying to come up with something that makes sense. A space transport design has to account for airlocks and microgravity and other issues that a modern aircraft doesn't.Smithy wrote:Just out of curiosity Arioch, as your last WIP update got me thinking (dangerous I know...), what references are you looking to, if at all with your interior shuttle design? I was thinking maybe stuff like the flexible layout inside the C-130, or are you simply sitting down and just thinking, "If I was designing a shuttle space for max utility, what would I have?" ?
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Heh, skirt dancing. And Barsams at that.
On the seat placement, it looks to me there's still place for them on the port side of the cabin, since appearantly the airlock won't be used by (at least) departure. Or perhaps four on the centre-line of the cabin wedged between the airlocks.
Not that they're necessary in this case, too few passengers.
On the seat placement, it looks to me there's still place for them on the port side of the cabin, since appearantly the airlock won't be used by (at least) departure. Or perhaps four on the centre-line of the cabin wedged between the airlocks.
Not that they're necessary in this case, too few passengers.
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Hi here my two cent worth , since I work with aircrafts of a similar nature.
To show the multipurpose nature of the highland, you could keep the multifunction "rail" ( ie roller on one side while flip them over to have tie downs) system that is featured in c-17 & other similar vessels. Those system could be broaden to serve in microgravity by having a similar system on the walls and ceiling, to tie down cargo on the ceiling ( hence the ag fields could be turned off to aid in moving the cargo). Now as for the looks the Space Shuttle has good reference for the look,as the payload specilist bay( under pilots) has all the materials behinds various cupboards and other areas ( tie downs,straps etc) to prevent items from floating and maximumize space . The same look could be found in the passenger & cargo areas as the highland is a VIP area, while ; showing the cargo area in use ( assuming, some smaller artifacts from the Bell are being transported as well). The seat could be all foldable into the walls or removed to to be install the cargo bay roof.
The airlock area could be used as a materials moving area / decontamination area for alien encounters . As well a second wide airlock could be placed in fornt of the passenger area, in case their was a breach in one on the air locks. Another solution would be to have the air locks partically telescope out of the hull to make a small airlock space outside the hull. That would save on internal space, and the tradition from 45 to flat could be a gental ramp with a second set of airtight doors.
Not sure helps or makes things worst.
To show the multipurpose nature of the highland, you could keep the multifunction "rail" ( ie roller on one side while flip them over to have tie downs) system that is featured in c-17 & other similar vessels. Those system could be broaden to serve in microgravity by having a similar system on the walls and ceiling, to tie down cargo on the ceiling ( hence the ag fields could be turned off to aid in moving the cargo). Now as for the looks the Space Shuttle has good reference for the look,as the payload specilist bay( under pilots) has all the materials behinds various cupboards and other areas ( tie downs,straps etc) to prevent items from floating and maximumize space . The same look could be found in the passenger & cargo areas as the highland is a VIP area, while ; showing the cargo area in use ( assuming, some smaller artifacts from the Bell are being transported as well). The seat could be all foldable into the walls or removed to to be install the cargo bay roof.
The airlock area could be used as a materials moving area / decontamination area for alien encounters . As well a second wide airlock could be placed in fornt of the passenger area, in case their was a breach in one on the air locks. Another solution would be to have the air locks partically telescope out of the hull to make a small airlock space outside the hull. That would save on internal space, and the tradition from 45 to flat could be a gental ramp with a second set of airtight doors.
Not sure helps or makes things worst.
I am a wander, going from place to place without a home I am a NOMAD
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
The seats are configurable, so there's no need to cram them in -- only six passengers on this flight anyway -- but the airlocks would be permanent and not easily configured. So I'm enlarging the side airlocks and having the inner and outer doors offset, so there's room for both steps down from the awkward outer door, and still room to stand inside the vertical inner door. The large double cargo doors don't have an airlock; they're for utility when loading and unloading large objects, and it's hard to imagine having airlocks large enough to handle such things. The causeway or hangar will need to be pressurized to use the cargo doors (or the whole cabin depressurized). Probably have some kind of temporary safety seal on the inside of the cargo doors so the passengers don't get nervous sitting next to them.
So the three airlock doors form a kind of vestibule, and the empty space is filled in with structural forms and "stuff."
So the three airlock doors form a kind of vestibule, and the empty space is filled in with structural forms and "stuff."
- Random Person
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:42 am
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
What kind of aesthetic are you going for? Same as the Loroi capital ships or something a bit more cramped? What duration is it meant for (orbital, inter-planetary, or inter-stellar)?
The Space Shuttle may be a good place to look for this sort of stuff, being a real-life craft with a similar role.
If it's meant for long duration missions you may want to turn the area between the airlocks into a crew cabin rather than a vestibule. Another option would be to replace airlock 1 with the crew cabin. The cockpit seems rather large, but it makes some sense considering Loroi preferences.
For space-filling stuff, I would put lockers everywhere.
I feel that it doesn't need as many airlocks as it has, there isn't really any need for symmetry. Deleting one of the side airlocks would free a good bit of space, as well as easing maintenance requirements. The placement of the airlocks towards the middle (still fairly forward, but well behind the nose) means that there isn't going to be a need for an airlock on each side due to "jigsaw puzzle" packing of craft into berths. If you look at planes with side doors, they tend to be only on one side.
Is there a large rear cargo door? The area isn't taken up by engines, there seems to be room for one, if the cargo bay goes that far back. It would allow larger cargo to be carried by the shuttle. You could also put a large cargo door on the top, if a rear door is impossible. That would allow loading and unloading via crane.
Something I noticed while writing this is that the walkway doesn't line up with the airlocks on page 102. It lines up with that dohicky on top which lines up to the space between the doors.
The Space Shuttle may be a good place to look for this sort of stuff, being a real-life craft with a similar role.
If it's meant for long duration missions you may want to turn the area between the airlocks into a crew cabin rather than a vestibule. Another option would be to replace airlock 1 with the crew cabin. The cockpit seems rather large, but it makes some sense considering Loroi preferences.
For space-filling stuff, I would put lockers everywhere.
I feel that it doesn't need as many airlocks as it has, there isn't really any need for symmetry. Deleting one of the side airlocks would free a good bit of space, as well as easing maintenance requirements. The placement of the airlocks towards the middle (still fairly forward, but well behind the nose) means that there isn't going to be a need for an airlock on each side due to "jigsaw puzzle" packing of craft into berths. If you look at planes with side doors, they tend to be only on one side.
Is there a large rear cargo door? The area isn't taken up by engines, there seems to be room for one, if the cargo bay goes that far back. It would allow larger cargo to be carried by the shuttle. You could also put a large cargo door on the top, if a rear door is impossible. That would allow loading and unloading via crane.
Something I noticed while writing this is that the walkway doesn't line up with the airlocks on page 102. It lines up with that dohicky on top which lines up to the space between the doors.
Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? It's not my department. -Wernher von Braun
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
The size of the shuttle is already established, and there's a limit to how cramped things can get, because like a movie set, I have to fit cameras in there. As it is, some sections will have to built to be removable to better facilitate camera placement.Random Person wrote:What kind of aesthetic are you going for? Same as the Loroi capital ships or something a bit more cramped? What duration is it meant for (orbital, inter-planetary, or inter-stellar)?
The Highland doesn't have jump drives, so it is for in-system only missions. A maximum system transit of ~80 LM would take about 48 hours at maximum acceleration, so that would be the typical maximum mission duration. I think that most missions would be less than 24 hours.
Page 102 establishes that there are doors on both sides of the fuselage, so that ship has already sailed.Random Person wrote:I feel that it doesn't need as many airlocks as it has, there isn't really any need for symmetry. Deleting one of the side airlocks would free a good bit of space, as well as easing maintenance requirements. The placement of the airlocks towards the middle (still fairly forward, but well behind the nose) means that there isn't going to be a need for an airlock on each side due to "jigsaw puzzle" packing of craft into berths. If you look at planes with side doors, they tend to be only on one side.
The #1 airlock (with a hatch on the top) also serves to separate the cockpit from the cabin, so that the cabin doesn't necessarily need to be pressurized. If you were running a pure-cargo mission then you might want to open the large side doors to load and unload cargo (or open up the cabin to the rear-cargo area which I suspect would typically be unpressurized), and the main airlock allows you to do without depressurizing the cockpit. On some cargo-only missions, the crew would enter and exit from lock #1 and operate entirely within the cockpit area.
Yes, there is a large rear cargo area with large rear doors and a loading ramp typical of transport aircraft.Random Person wrote:Is there a large rear cargo door?
I noticed this last month and considered the idea of making the external doors asymmetrical and only having the airlock on the starboard side, but this doesn't really buy me anything in terms of space with the seating configuration that I want, and it doesn't explain why there would be both large and small doors on the port side. I think the layout I've illustrated above will serve adequately for what I need, and we'll just have to ignore the fact that the placement of the causeway isn't drawn quite right.Random Person wrote:Something I noticed while writing this is that the walkway doesn't line up with the airlocks on page 102. It lines up with that dohicky on top which lines up to the space between the doors.
- Random Person
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:42 am
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Okay. I couldn't actually find anything saying whether the shuttle had FTL capability without going on a forum dive. One thing you could add to the ship class stuff in the future is if the class is jump capable. A simple yes or no.Arioch wrote:The size of the shuttle is already established, and there's a limit to how cramped things can get, because like a movie set, I have to fit cameras in there. As it is, some sections will have to built to be removable to better facilitate camera placement.
The Highland doesn't have jump drives, so it is for in-system only missions. A maximum system transit of ~80 LM would take about 48 hours at maximum acceleration, so that would be the typical maximum mission duration. I think that most missions would be less than 24 hours.
Yeah, I'd rather you put effort into making a new page than editing an old page.Arioch wrote:Page 102 establishes that there are doors on both sides of the fuselage, so that ship has already sailed.
Ah, so there are seperate compartments. A fore one and an aft one with a big door/removable wall in between. I was under the impression it was one long room. That setup works, though if I were doing it from scratch I would combine the side and cockpit airlocks.Arioch wrote:The #1 airlock (with a hatch on the top) also serves to separate the cockpit from the cabin, so that the cabin doesn't necessarily need to be pressurized. If you were running a pure-cargo mission then you might want to open the large side doors to load and unload cargo (or open up the cabin to the rear-cargo area which I suspect would typically be unpressurized), and the main airlock allows you to do without depressurizing the cockpit. On some cargo-only missions, the crew would enter and exit from lock #1 and operate entirely within the cockpit area.
Well, an airtight door isn't nearly as complex as an airlock, so it isn't quite as much of a sacrifice to put them on both sides. The design isn't bad, just a tad inefficient. Considering that this is an expensive shuttle though, maybe this is part of the reason?Arioch wrote:I noticed this last month and considered the idea of making the external doors asymmetrical and only having the airlock on the starboard side, but this doesn't really buy me anything in terms of space with the seating configuration that I want, and it doesn't explain why there would be both large and small doors on the port side. I think the layout I've illustrated above will serve adequately for what I need, and we'll just have to ignore the fact that the placement of the causeway isn't drawn quite right.
Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? It's not my department. -Wernher von Braun
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
dont worry beryl, i dont get it etherArioch wrote:
funny the way she read it like an actress who is handed a new script
-
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:20 pm
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Should be seeing Talon soon! Looking forward to meeting a new character.
Plus, I think it might be time to adopt a new Loroi. Although, considering what happened last time, with Nova, it might not be such a good idea...
Plus, I think it might be time to adopt a new Loroi. Although, considering what happened last time, with Nova, it might not be such a good idea...
- Count Casimir
- Moderator
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:50 pm
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
I have to worry about the most beautiful captain in the universe now! It's torture, I tell you.CptWinters wrote:Should be seeing Talon soon! Looking forward to meeting a new character.
Plus, I think it might be time to adopt a new Loroi. Although, considering what happened last time, with Nova, it might not be such a good idea...
Ashrain is best rain.
-
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:20 pm
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
You're telling me, man.
It's good you're still around, Cas. Us lifers gotta keep the old ways alive.
It's good you're still around, Cas. Us lifers gotta keep the old ways alive.
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Hey Casimir, good to see a lot of "oldies" but goodies still around too.
@Arioch: good points, as simpler set up would make sense. and moving cargo in a pressurized cargo bay would be easier for the crew. but couldn't the gravity be turned off to help move large items ?
I'm also looking forward to seeing Talon and Spiral together, they haven't been seen together since page 41 (http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider041.html). and talon alone since page 79-80 (http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider079.html). IIRC: talon will have some lines during the trip ( pls no "Do you need coffee Captain" remarks).
@Arioch: good points, as simpler set up would make sense. and moving cargo in a pressurized cargo bay would be easier for the crew. but couldn't the gravity be turned off to help move large items ?
I'm also looking forward to seeing Talon and Spiral together, they haven't been seen together since page 41 (http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider041.html). and talon alone since page 79-80 (http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider079.html). IIRC: talon will have some lines during the trip ( pls no "Do you need coffee Captain" remarks).
I am a wander, going from place to place without a home I am a NOMAD
- Random Person
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:42 am
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
I started reading this when it was up to page 43 or 44, all those years ago. Gotta love that update rate, just short of a decade to get through the prologue and chapter 1.
Arioch, can you put it in your will to have your work for this posted since there's a decent chance you'll die before finishing it?
Arioch, can you put it in your will to have your work for this posted since there's a decent chance you'll die before finishing it?
Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? It's not my department. -Wernher von Braun
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Talon: You seem to be loosing focus Captain, may i offer you a good stimulant to keep you awake?NOMAD wrote:IIRC: talon will have some lines during the trip ( pls no "Do you need coffee Captain" remarks).
Alex: hmm sure?
*slap across the face*
Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
I expect that most hangar bays would have the artificial gravity at lower settings to make things easier to move around, but I don't think you'd want to turn it off altogether -- I think zero G makes objects harder rather than easier to move around. The shuttle itself has inertial dampers, but not artificial gravity.NOMAD wrote:and moving cargo in a pressurized cargo bay would be easier for the crew. but couldn't the gravity be turned off to help move large items ?