Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
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Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
Sometimes through mistakes and blunders, some organizations, whether commercial, politcal, or religious, end up essentialky creating enemies of people who either are critical of their failures or victims of them.
In the process antiagonists are developed with the sole goal of dissassembiling the said organization.
So.... do the Loroi deserve the Umiak as enemies? Have they done enough to deserve them as such?
Certainly the Umiak think so.
Sometimes... no matter how good an organization tries to be or even is... through their blunders and harm done to others they end up as it were 'earning' the wrath of those who later become their enemies.
If it's a spoiler do not abswer arioch. I respect that.
In the process antiagonists are developed with the sole goal of dissassembiling the said organization.
So.... do the Loroi deserve the Umiak as enemies? Have they done enough to deserve them as such?
Certainly the Umiak think so.
Sometimes... no matter how good an organization tries to be or even is... through their blunders and harm done to others they end up as it were 'earning' the wrath of those who later become their enemies.
If it's a spoiler do not abswer arioch. I respect that.
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Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
I don't think anything the Loroi did or didn't do make them the opponents of the Umiak. They're just in their way, and pretty clearly the Umiak were Imperialistic to start with, just as, more or less, the Loroi were.
It's a routine clash of Empires, not ideologies. Both deserve the other because it's largely inevitable that one Empire will encounter another, and clash with it.
It's a routine clash of Empires, not ideologies. Both deserve the other because it's largely inevitable that one Empire will encounter another, and clash with it.
- spacewhale
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Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
If there are aliens that can basically infiltrate and hack ships, how do we know the war wasn't started on false pretenses? i.e. Interference with sensors, fire control systems, to spark off a greater conflict and eliminate a good portion of both sides. Provide help here and there to the fighting sides so they better dispose of one another.
Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
Seems to be so... gives a greater possibility for making peace even though both sides have become genocidal.harlequin2262 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:34 amI don't think anything the Loroi did or didn't do make them the opponents of the Umiak. They're just in their way, and pretty clearly the Umiak were Imperialistic to start with, just as, more or less, the Loroi were.
It's a routine clash of Empires, not ideologies. Both deserve the other because it's largely inevitable that one Empire will encounter another, and clash with it.
This I know, a war of ideology ends in a bloodbath... that is honestly the most lethal kind of war I know of.... since the only way to kill an idea is to literally squash all who have it.
Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
"'Deserve's' got nothin' to do with it." - William Munny
- spacewhale
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- Keklas Rekobah
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Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
To me, "Deserve" implies some form of willful retribution or judgement by a higher authority, much like Pharoah's Egypt "deserved" the 10 plagues (esp. #8: "A Plague of Locusts").
“Qua is the sine qua non of sine qua non qua sine qua non.” -- Attributed to many
Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
Nope... I hate to skirt the line of stuff that should not be talked about.... but I had in my mind specifically religious organizations which withold information from law enforcement that would convict sex offenders within their own organization.Keklas Rekobah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:52 pmTo me, "Deserve" implies some form of willful retribution or judgement by a higher authority, much like Pharoah's Egypt "deserved" the 10 plagues (esp. #8: "A Plague of Locusts").
No 'higher authority' involved exacting the retribution other than the victims, the courts, and law enforcement.
Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
See, if the Loroi would just do the work assigned to them like all the other reasonable species the Umiak have befriended, there would never have had to be any war at all.
Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
The Umiak are at least tactically a deserving enemy... at least if viewing matters through the vaunted view of a B5 Shadow that viewed survival of the fittest through war as the ultimate ongoing goal in life for all civilizations.
The war certainly has forced the Loroi to adjust and improve at war and kicking alien butt in general.
Amusingly there are a number of enemies from other franchises that the Loroi would not deserve at all... at least from a storytelling perspective.
1. The Goauld. Because if SG1 can bring them down the Loroi would stomp all over them sooner or later. Not necessarily through ship to ship battles but sheer infiltration and taking over Goauld ships and using them against each other. Which is laughably easy too.
2. The Borg. Because either the Loroi have no chance or they would stomp after severe losses. Pretty predictable outcomes.
3. Other Star Trek Villain races: Unlike the Borg they send more than one ship, which frankly won't end well for the Loroi since they would be severly outclassed.
It's one thing to gank a borh cube. Quite another to deal with a star fleet from star trek.
The war certainly has forced the Loroi to adjust and improve at war and kicking alien butt in general.
Amusingly there are a number of enemies from other franchises that the Loroi would not deserve at all... at least from a storytelling perspective.
1. The Goauld. Because if SG1 can bring them down the Loroi would stomp all over them sooner or later. Not necessarily through ship to ship battles but sheer infiltration and taking over Goauld ships and using them against each other. Which is laughably easy too.
2. The Borg. Because either the Loroi have no chance or they would stomp after severe losses. Pretty predictable outcomes.
3. Other Star Trek Villain races: Unlike the Borg they send more than one ship, which frankly won't end well for the Loroi since they would be severly outclassed.
It's one thing to gank a borh cube. Quite another to deal with a star fleet from star trek.
- Keklas Rekobah
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Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
"Plague of Locusts" was a reference to the Umiaks' bug-like anatomy. In a sense, they are like locusts, ravaging the ecologies of every world they subjugate.Bamax wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:17 pmNope... I hate to skirt the line of stuff that should not be talked about.... but I had in my mind specifically religious organizations which withold information from law enforcement that would convict sex offenders within their own organization. No 'higher authority' involved exacting the retribution other than the victims, the courts, and law enforcement.Keklas Rekobah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:52 pmTo me, "Deserve" implies some form of willful retribution or judgement by a higher authority, much like Pharoah's Egypt "deserved" the 10 plagues (esp. #8: "A Plague of Locusts").
“Qua is the sine qua non of sine qua non qua sine qua non.” -- Attributed to many
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Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
The Goa'uld primtas would likely find Loroi biochemistry incompatible with, if not deadly to their own.Bamax wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:19 amThe Umiak are at least tactically a deserving enemy... at least if viewing matters through the vaunted view of a B5 Shadow that viewed survival of the fittest through war as the ultimate ongoing goal in life for all civilizations. The war certainly has forced the Loroi to adjust and improve at war and kicking alien butt in general. Amusingly there are a number of enemies from other franchises that the Loroi would not deserve at all... at least from a storytelling perspective.
1. The Goauld. Because if SG1 can bring them down the Loroi would stomp all over them sooner or later. Not necessarily through ship to ship battles but sheer infiltration and taking over Goauld ships and using them against each other. Which is laughably easy too.
2. The Borg. Because either the Loroi have no chance or they would stomp after severe losses. Pretty predictable outcomes.
3. Other Star Trek Villain races: Unlike the Borg they send more than one ship, which frankly won't end well for the Loroi since they would be severely outclassed.
It's one thing to gank a Borg cube. Quite another to deal with a Star Fleet from Star Trek.
Borg nanites would have to adapt to Loroi biology, which should take no more than a few fatalities to accomplish.
Would warp drive fields act as interdiction zones for hyperspace jumps? We may never know.
“Qua is the sine qua non of sine qua non qua sine qua non.” -- Attributed to many
Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
The Umiak deserve the Borg.
The Loroi deserve the Eldar.
The Historians deserve the Culture.
The Empire from Starwars deserve the Umiak.
The Federation deserves the Loroi.
SG5 deserves the Cylons.
The Loroi deserve the Eldar.
The Historians deserve the Culture.
The Empire from Starwars deserve the Umiak.
The Federation deserves the Loroi.
SG5 deserves the Cylons.
Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
Borg vs the shells is unfair... even the Loroi would fair better. Beating them is not as simple as throwing fleets at them usually... since their shields adapt fast.
Unless they can kill it before it adapts.... and that is unlikely in a first encounter dince they will want to know what they are dealing with and typically borg are not easy to blow up anyway.
The Eldar vs the Loroi is.... kinda unfair for the Loroi... I only have a cursory knowledge of them but their whole universe is ridiculous anyway.
The cuture vs the historians would be.... not an encounter the Historians would want. I honestly think the Umiak would give the culture more trouble. Historians do not seem tp have big taste for war.
Yeah... I lose no sleep if the Umiak steamroll the Imperials.... they are both bad guys, but at least the Umiak are true aliens rsther than generic humans.. so I root for them.
Federation vs Loroi won't be for the Loroi at all unless we are talking very early era.
Star Trek tech is just ridiculous.
Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
I was thinking the Umiak and the Dominion deserve each other. Tech differences notwithstanding, what happens when the strategy of both sides is to just throw hordes upon hordes of mass-produced cannon fodder at each other?
Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
I was really thinking more in terms of karma anyway. Each race is threatened by another race that is most like them, except more so!
No one deserves the Instrumentality, except maybe the Lensmen.
No one deserves the Instrumentality, except maybe the Lensmen.
Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
As far as we know!harlequin2262 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:34 amI don't think anything the Loroi did or didn't do make them the opponents of the Umiak.
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Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
Nobody deserves to suffer an infestation of giant communist space termites. Not even a militaristic and somewhat imperialist society of combat hungry hyper feminists with a superiority complex.Jagged wrote: ↑Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:07 amAs far as we know!harlequin2262 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:34 amI don't think anything the Loroi did or didn't do make them the opponents of the Umiak.
Re: Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?
I think they are destined to be friends.
"And it turned out that the real treasure was the war we fought along the way!"
"And it turned out that the real treasure was the war we fought along the way!"