Page 107 Discussion

[Arioch]

When I was a kid in the 70's we were taught the metric system in school and were told that the US was going to convert. But that didn't happen, because people want to continue driving miles and filling with gallons of gasoline, and thinking of the height and weight of people in terms of feet, inches and pounds... because that's what they're used to, and there's nothing wrong with that. The advantages offered by the metric system are irrelevant to 95% of the people. The ability to more easily convert units has no appeal whatsoever to an ordinary person who is trying to buy milk. Almost all labeling and packaging gives measurements in both systems, so if you want to use metric... knock yourself out.

If you're in the field of science or engineering and you can actually benefit from SI units, chances are you're already using them. Only a few hardware engineering and fabrication disciplines insist on still using Imperial units. That's not a problem as long as everyone is clear on their conversions -- the infamous Mars Orbiter screw up had less to do with the unit systems and more to do with NASA's incompetent bureaucracy.

I make a point of using SI units the comic, but I still think in miles and gallons and pounds rather than in kilometers and liters and kilograms in everyday life.

[Krulle]

The USA has switched at least unofficially.

Actually, I believe that the switch was official (back in the 50s, 60s, something like that). The unofficial switch was the one that didn't happen.

Metrication (or metrification) is the process of introducing the International System of Units (or SI), commonly known as the metric system, to replace the traditional or customary units of measurement of a country or region. Although all U.S. customary units have been redefined in terms of SI units, the United States does not commonly mandate the use of SI. This, according to the CIA Factbook, makes the United States one of only three countries as of 2015, with Myanmar (Burma) and Liberia, that have not adopted the metric system as their official system of weights and measures.

[emphasis added by me]

I also found a website giving a brief explanation of the US customary units. As I don't know them and don't use them, I found it an interesting read.

[Sweforce]

Imagine Alex holding this rant for Beryl regarding measurements: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7x-RGfd0Yk

[JQBogus]

When did the UK fully adopt the metric system? AFAIK, they started metrification in 1965, but still haven't really completed it, since one still buys beer in the pub by the pint.

The UK didn't adopt a rational (decimal) currency until 1971. The US has had one since 1792.

So... we'll let you be behind us by 199 years in adopting decimal currency, you can let us be behind you by 199 years in adopting the metric system. We'll get around to it in 2164. Still 4 years to go in Outsider.

[RedDwarfIV]

Supposedly the British still use miles. Real-world units and engineering-units don't intrinsically need to be the same thing, particularly since Real-world units are primarily colloquial in use, not precise. The Fahrenheit scale is similar: Celsius has a more sensible footing from a technical perspective (Kelvin honestly beats it, but still), but the Fahrenheit scale matches better to human comfort, thus more sensible for the 7-day forecast.

"Turn left in 0.5 miles, then in 200 yards at the roundabout take the third exit."
- An example of a British sat-nav talking.

Petrol pumps definitely count in litres. Mostly we use Celsius (certainly TV weather reports do)... except when it's hot, and Fahrenheit allows people to give a ridiculously high number to make their point.

[fredgiblet]

Why do you use stone for weight?

[icekatze]

hi hi

How do we know the Loroi don't have their own local measurements as well? Maybe Deinar, Taben, and Perrein all have their own local units of measurement?

[Arioch]

How do we know the Loroi don't have their own local measurements as well? Maybe Deinar, Taben, and Perrein all have their own local units of measurement?

They do, and some of them are plenty archaic. Beryl would not find the Imperial system to be unusual.

[Suederwind]

Switching to metric doesn't mean that those older units just go out of use and vanish.
People here in Germany still buy a Pfund (pound) of bread/sugar/etc... , farmers still sell a Zentner (roughly a hundreadweight) of potatos if you want that much and a lot of people still convert prices in Mark to get a better feeling if its a fair deal (me included). You don't lern them in school, you lern and use them in everyday use.

Thats why I can see Alex thinking about how many miles he is away from home or guessing Beryls height in feet, etc...

[Krulle]

Yes, but the German pound has changed its meaning to mean half a kilogram [1], and the "Zentner" is even worse, as the Germans mostly understand 100 pound (100x500g = 50kg), whereas in Switzerland and Austria the "Zentner" is the (metric)"Zentner" (100x1kg = 100kg), so to differentiate, the Germans use the "Doppelzentner" for 100kg [2].
[Wikipedia: [1], [2]]

People will still use old units, as they are used to it. The meaning might change slightly to adapt to round numbers in the new system....

BTW: I stopped converting from EUR to DM already some 5 months in. Beforehand I did a lot of converting from DM to EUR, or from HFL (Dutch guilder) to EUR, to be able to compare prices (on purpose to EUR, I could have converted directly DM<->Hfl). I am so happy with our common currency, although i am unhappy about certain elements of the implementation.

[hack]

i've been told that everyone has a Doppelzentner somewhere in this world...

[Suederwind]

The meaning was changed by the German Zollverein in 1833, to unify the various different types of measurements of the german states. The same with the Zentner. Its just very interesting that those units are still in use today and coming back to the Loroi: Are those archaic measurements still in common use today?

[discord]

well, in sweden we do have 'mil' not to be confused with the 'mile' even if both are measures of distance, we kept it simply because it was close enough to 10km so we just shrugged and said 'lets redefine it as 10km' and everyone was happy.
also tons of other when it comes to cooking...but i blame those disgusting imperial swines for that.

[Absalom]

Why do you use stone for weight?

Why do people try to use kilograms for weight despite the appropriate unit being newtons? If you buy a kg of helium, you're going to ask the seller why it's so light.

[dragoongfa]

Why do you use stone for weight?

Why do people try to use kilograms for weight despite the appropriate unit being newtons? If you buy a kg of helium, you're going to ask the seller why it's so light.

To be more accurate one would ask the seller why it is so heavy since helium can only be sold in tanks that are worth far more than it

[icekatze]

hi hi

I suggest everyone start using Smoots as the new standard unit of measuring distance. (Disclaimer, I don't actually suggest that.)

[Krulle]

Why do you use stone for weight?

Why do people try to use kilograms for weight despite the appropriate unit being newtons? If you buy a kg of helium, you're going to ask the seller why it's so light.

huh?
kg is a unit of mass (not weight).
N (Newton) is a unit of force applied.


Oh, you meant kg-force. Yes, there Newton would be proper... But people don't want to weigh approximately 10 times more...

[Absalom]

Why do you use stone for weight?

Why do people try to use kilograms for weight despite the appropriate unit being newtons? If you buy a kg of helium, you're going to ask the seller why it's so light.

huh?
kg is a unit of mass (not weight).
N (Newton) is a unit of force applied.


Oh, you meant kg-force. Yes, there Newton would be proper... But people don't want to weigh approximately 10 times more...

The point is that people treat kg as a measure of weight, when it isn't: a kg of helium and a kg of lead have radically different weights. Newtons, in contrast, are a measure of force, ergo of weight. kg-force easily leads to misunderstandings in the hands of the non-technical, and thus is non-desirable, regardless of how much it "reduces" the weight of the SI committee-member's dates for this weekend.

[AndrejaKo]

Just a dumb question: Why would 1 kg of helium and 1 kg of lead have different weights, with same gravity? In both cases, it should be around 9.81 N, give or take for the local gravity constant.

Also, in Europe at least, we've had a unit of force called kilopond which was defined as 1 kp = 9.80665 N, that is standardized weight of one kilogram. It doesn't seem to be in common use any more, but it can still be seen sometimes on for example old elevators or such.

[Absalom]

Just a dumb question: Why would 1 kg of helium and 1 kg of lead have different weights, with same gravity? In both cases, it should be around 9.81 N, give or take for the local gravity constant.

Density. For any normal conditions, the density of lead is going to be reasonably stable. Helium is a gas under "room conditions", so it'll have variable density, but the density will be much lower than lead regardless: about 1/100th at it's boiling point, while at 1 atmosphere. You can get the same weight in a vacuum, but space suits are rarely used on the surface of the Earth, so...