Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thread

[Keklas Rekobah]

230 cm tall Barsam: "Want to play tackle football?"
90 cm tall Neridi: "No, not really."

230 cm tall Barsam: "How sad. We really needed someone to be the football."

[gaerzi]

I think that even between similar humanoid species, the physical differences would just be too great to allow for fair competitive sports.

Depends on the sport.

Things like golf or skeet shooting could be opened to interspecies competitions without too much unfair advantages.

I think it refers to the distance from point of enemy contact, similar to "zero hour" for the start time of a plan.

Or "ground zero" for the point of impact of a massive enough bomb (originally coined for survey of nuclear tests).

[Bamax]

Since Umiak value friendship but also have a culture that emphasizes humility to the extent that it is hinted at being 'baked in' (genetically engineered), I imagine that at least among Umiak, they are highly dependent on social pressure, since being independent of the group means something is literally wrong with you since humility is likely both culturally and genetically engineered into them.

I honestly hope Umiak do not have every aspect of their lives micromanaged like the high control group I was raised up in that many call a cult because it has culty traits (can't do this or that, no friends outside the group, do not talk to those that leave the group or you will face negative social pressure consequences etc)

But when humilty is emphasized excessively personal rights and wants often are neglected for the seeming 'greater good' of whatever the authority wants for right or wrong.

[Hālian]

What is the life expectancy of an average umiak in peacetime?

[Arioch]

What is the life expectancy of an average umiak in peacetime?

Around 60-80 years for an individual that was hatched normally and did not undergo accelerated maturation.

[Quickdraw101]

So is it safe to assume that anything not on the website regarding the Nissek Hegemony, is spoiler territory? Because I'm trying to figure out what their military looks like, at least compared to the Loroi.

[Arioch]

So is it safe to assume that anything not on the website regarding the Nissek Hegemony, is spoiler territory? Because I'm trying to figure out what their military looks like, at least compared to the Loroi.

The Nissek are not very well-defined, as they're not directly involved in the conflict. It's safe to assume that all the major powers have roughly similar levels of technology, since they've been interacting for quite some time now.

SpoilerShow

We see an ambassador, but not any of their military hardware.

[Bamax]

During the Seren occupation did the umiak use a lot of alien mercenaries as soldiers?

I just think it would be an easy option since many aliens are better adapted to 1g than Umiak.


And Cyborg Umiak seem rare so unless the Umiak were relying on thousands of cyborg umiak or client race soldiers or robots I do not see how they ever managed to hold Seren without nuking it silly for any length of time.

[Arioch]

During the Seren occupation did the umiak use a lot of alien mercenaries as soldiers?

No.

And Cyborg Umiak seem rare so unless the Umiak were relying on thousands of cyborg umiak or client race soldiers or robots I do not see how they ever managed to hold Seren without nuking it silly for any length of time.

Umiak hardtroops aren't "rare." They're the minority of the crew aboard a typical warship, just as U.S. Marines are the minority aboard a Navy aircraft carrier, but in an infantry unit there's no shortage of them.

Not all Umiak soldiers are cyborgs; some are just genetically modified to better operate in heavy gravity. Armored cyborg death machines aren't the right fit for every infantry role, but there's no shortage of either type. Keeping in mind that the Umiak manufacture their population, and their manufacturing capabilities are... substantial.

[Bamax]

During the Seren occupation did the umiak use a lot of alien mercenaries as soldiers?

No.

And Cyborg Umiak seem rare so unless the Umiak were relying on thousands of cyborg umiak or client race soldiers or robots I do not see how they ever managed to hold Seren without nuking it silly for any length of time.

Umiak hardtroops aren't "rare." They're the minority of the crew aboard a typical warship, just as U.S. Marines are the minority aboard a Navy aircraft carrier, but in an infantry unit there's no shortage of them.

Not all Umiak soldiers are cyborgs; some are just genetically modified to better operate in heavy gravity. Armored cyborg death machines aren't the right fit for every infantry role, but there's no shortage of either type. Keeping in mind that the Umiak manufacture their population, and their manufacturing capabilities are... substantial.

Well now the Umiak make a lot more sense trying to conquer the known galaxy.


Unlike other known races they modify their bodies on an industrial scale... which allows them to live and work in more varied environments than most other races.


Loroi can live anywhere so long they seal off a a safe habitat with a gravity generator, but Umiak can get by without even the gravity generator if their bodies are designed for it

[Demarquis]

There would have to be hard limits to how far the Umiak (or any other species) can modify their bodies, without outright starting from scratch.

Regardless of that, there should be "soft limits" to how quickly the Umiak (or any other species) can replace battlefield casualties. Someone has to provide the food, care, and other essentials during childhood. It's a little bit like the rocket equation--how many productive workers are required to support a single Umiak soldier? Given a ratio X/Y and a total population Z, and there is a limit to the casualty rate they can sustain.

And increasing total population may be challenging given the Loroi shooting as many of them as they can find.

[avatar576]

Regardless of that, there should be "soft limits" to how quickly the Umiak (or any other species) can replace battlefield casualties. Someone has to provide the food, care, and other essentials during childhood. It's a little bit like the rocket equation--how many productive workers are required to support a single Umiak soldier? Given a ratio X/Y and a total population Z, and there is a limit to the casualty rate they can sustain.

The Umiak are masters of mass production and economies of scale. Among us humans it's true that there are limits to, say, how many students a single teacher can manage, but the Umiak may have solutions that we would find morally or ethically questionable at best and outright illegal at worst.
Such solutions might include relegating under-performing students to menial tasks, or simply discarding them as "defective." And given that Umiak don't appear to reproduce naturally, it's probably fair to say they have highly advanced eugenics programs to filter out undesirable traits or genetic defects to minimize the need for specialized care.

They also don't seem to have supply lines as we know them. Our supply lines take the form of a continuous flow of food, supplies and materiel to sustain a prolonged presence at the front and insure a maximum survival rate of front-line troops. It works, but it's very expensive. The Umiak, by contrast, pack what they need for a one-way trip with the assault force. Once they depart, they are pretty much on their own. Damaged ships have to be repaired or jury-rigged on the spot, or else they'll be cannibalized for parts or scuttled. I'd hazard a guess that Umiak warriors who are injured to the point of being unable to perform their duties are not sent back from the front lines to recuperate. They would probably be euthanized.

They also tend to harvest natural resources with far more recklessness and disregard for environmental and societal consequences than other races. As well, they probably have significantly advanced capabilities in automation.

So while it would be inaccurate to say there are no limits to how quickly they can replace casualties, their limits are far, far higher than those of Humanity or the Loroi. It might take the work of ten or twenty people to keep a single Human or Loroi warrior in fighting shape in the field. For the Umiak, that ratio would be far lower. It could even be inverted. Unless the Loroi can match that kind of logistical efficiency, the Umiak won't reach the limits of their logistical or industrial capacity.

[Demarquis]

"The Umiak are masters of mass production and economies of scale."

Well, I'm sure they're good, but they can't beat the laws of physics. Movement requires energy, and organic movement requires energy in the form of nutrients and other substances. You can relegate someone to any task you like, but biology doesn't care, they have to eat. Feed someone less, provide less of other necessary resources, and they become less productive, whatever it is that you have relegated them to. If you assign a fraction of your population to make work, that fraction is then operating below capacity, and that will eventually play out as fewer resources available for the military. Killing them results in the same, except even worse.

The supply line thing resembles the operational approach of the Soviet Army, and to an extent the contemporary Russian one. It does allow for a degree of increased flexibility in deployment (at least at first), but in the end war is attrition, and attrition comes down to cost per kill (that is, how much an enemy death costs you). Whether you deploy your resources in mobile form accompanying the field units, or pass them along a logistics train, it's the same amount of resources in the end. How much does a Loroi battle death cost the Umiak? Is there any reason to assume that their costs are cheaper that what it costs the Loroi to kill an Umiak? And that field unit that just ran out of supplies? It's now useless, which is to say cheap to kill.

All choices have costs. Strip your planets of useful resources, and the manufacturing base becomes unsustainable in the long run. That's what Nazi Germany did, and the only way they were able to last as long as they did was to keep conquering new territories to strip. As soon as neighboring states began pushing them back, the end was inevitable. Perhaps the Umiak are still in the "acquiring new territories" stage, in which case the Loroi really need to look into sending some diplomatic missions into the Umiak rear. Perhaps Humanity could help with that.

In the end, all industrial species face the exact same limits, which are dictated by the ratio of total resources extracted to resources available as surplus (that is, not needed to continue to extract resources) over time. There is a hard limit to this.

[Bamax]

The Russian strategy has been historically to win by exhausting their opponents.

One thing Russia has is a lot of resources, more than it's opponents usually, which is why they win against weaker nations usually. They also have a lot of soldiers to throw at any war, which means although no damage is good, they can take far more of it than their foes can before they actually have to admit defeat.

Basically you do not want a long war with Russia, since those are exactly the types of wars they are good at winning.

The Umiak are the same, except the Loroi have a farseer advantage which recently the Umiak have found a way to counter.

[Demarquis]

When Napoleon invaded, logistics trains hadn't been invented yet, and Russia was on the defense, so a scorched Earth policy was rather effective. When Hitler invaded, his armies over-extended themselves out of supply, while Russia was retreating, and supply lines were relatively short (in essence, their units were retreating toward resupply. The Germans were advancing away from it). In both cases, the defense had better supply than the offense, which was therefore more easily exhausted. None of this was expected to work against NATO, because in that case it would be the Russians advancing away from re-supply, and NATO air superiority was expected to ensure that any supply chains they tried to set up wouldn't survive the advance ("Shoot and Scoot" tactics were expected to ensure that they ran out of advancing units quickly). The Russians knew this, and adopted the "send each Regiment out with it's own supplies and replace the unit" approach, which was an act of desperation, not brilliance. It's a *short term* operational approach, not a long term one. They were banking on winning quickly. We see how well this worked in Ukraine.

As for the Umiaks, it's hard to say for certain. They could still be in their expansionist phase, not yet having hit the wall of their unsustainable industrial practices. Or maybe there is an unlimited number of weaker populations in their rear they can exploit, though at some point the need to continually conquer new client states is going to significantly split their forces. But one thing I can say for certain--brutality doesn't give you any efficiency advantage. Quite the opposite.

[Bamax]

I presume Umiak only make sounds with their mandible clicks, which means they cannot exactly scream for help loudly.

Also... Do Umiak customarily cannibalize off Loroi or is it just weird ones who do that?

Or is that not protocol so they try to follow orotocol instead?

[Arioch]

I presume Umiak only make sounds with their mandible clicks, which means they cannot exactly scream for help loudly.

Umiak can make hissing and buzzing noises, which can be about as loud as a human making similar sounds, but they can't literally scream.

Also... Do Umiak customarily cannibalize off Loroi or is it just weird ones who do that?

When I have said that Umiak cannibalize things, I was referring to mechanical things, parts, etc., and that crew from a crippled starship will be taken into the crew of other ships in the squadron. I didn't mean that they are literally cannibals in terms of eating sentient beings.

[Bamax]

I presume Umiak only make sounds with their mandible clicks, which means they cannot exactly scream for help loudly.

Umiak can make hissing and buzzing noises, which can be about as loud as a human making similar sounds, but they can't literally scream.

Also... Do Umiak customarily cannibalize off Loroi or is it just weird ones who do that?

When I have said that Umiak cannibalize things, I was referring to mechanical things, parts, etc., and that crew from a crippled starship will be taken into the crew of other ships in the squadron. I didn't mean that they are literally cannibals in terms of eating sentient beings.

I know.... good to knoe they may look monsterous but still retain the civiliy of sentience.

Wild animals are known to be wild and unpredictable, sentients are very predictable.

[Demarquis]

Clickit1: "Where did you get that new artificial limb?"

Clickit2: "Remember that prisoner from a few weeks ago...?"

[Snoofman]

Is there political division among the Umiak? If so, what regions of Umiak territory have diverged from the dogma of the Hierarchy?