Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

[Mk_C]

My main argument is that interstellar politics and by extension conflict in such a setting are a 'marathon' instead of a 'sprint'.

Some strange marathon. Loroi have been running it since before humans figured out what electricity is, and then they just show up two blocks behind.

With the right policies, incentives and targeted taxation it is easy to see a return to a 'natural' ratio of 4 births per woman which would mean a doubling of the population every single generation. Combined with technological means of longevity and medical assistance human population could explode by orders of magnitude in a matter of decades.
Human reproduction rates on the other hand are also naturally high, not the OP levels of the Loroi and Umiak but still high, especially in peacetime. With the right policies, incentives and targeted taxation it is easy to see a return to a 'natural' ratio of 4 births per woman which would mean a doubling of the population every single generation. Combined with technological means of longevity and medical assistance human population could explode by orders of magnitude in a matter of decades. It's an upfront cost in terms of the incentives, women being retracted from the workforce and educationt but it will pay it for itself and have sizeable dividends in a single generation.

I don't see what the benefit would be. Population is of little use without the equipment in an interstellar conflict, and industry and tech are unlikely to follow the same exponential growth.

[dragoongfa]

I don't see what the benefit would be. Population is of little use without the equipment in an interstellar conflict, and industry and tech are unlikely to follow the same exponential growth.

In an economic environment increased demand always results in increased supply thus population growth results in economic growth in a healthy economic environment. Industrial and scientific advancement follows the maturation of the new generation.

In short, more population means more of everything else; provided that the necessary space and resources are available.

[Ithekro]

The only way to effectively counter the Umiak reproduction is to fight in Umiak territory and destroy facilities that are doing the breeding/cloning/cybernetic constructs. And the Loroi have not yet managed to force the war into Umiak territory for the entire course of the war. The last major offensive basically made it up to Umiak space before being cut off and destroyed. And that was over a decade ago.

[Werra]

Policies necessary for population expansion and high education aren't a cost that don't pay for itself in the future, it's an early cost that brings a multitude of benefits later on; a larger, vibrant and highly educated population is by default a geopolitical asset by itself. The up-front costs (both on the economic and societal levels) may seem high but the returns and dividends are more than worth it; especially in an interstellar era with plenty of room to expand and build upon.

While that is largely true, the other species have a far easier time of expanding their pop base than us humans. If mankind can close the power gap by growth, the other species must have made a mistake to let it get that far without leveraging that time into something else. I think we should assume that alien, competing nations will behave reasonably smart.

My main argument is that interstellar politics and by extension conflict in such a setting are a 'marathon' instead of a 'sprint'. The high and unimpeted reproduction rates of the Loroi and Umiak are a sprint mechanism, on peace time both are bound to have far lower population growth for internal stability reasons alone (the Loroi actually having several recession cycles due to sudden population bubbles is a testament to that). In wartime the costs are swallowed but both the Loroi and Umiak are reported to be on a knife's edge in terms of internal stability and at their limit in terms of ability to raise new 'warriors'.

Where is it said that the Loroi are suffering from recessions in peacetime? They have centuries to react to any glut of the age pyramid. They also should have a far easier time of keeping up with humans in pop growth, as they can match even extreme efforts of humanity with a relative small part of their population. They're also used to having far stronger pop booms than humans. In fact, the Lorois gender ratio hides another boon for pop growth, because unlike human men, Loroi women are not each expected to supply for a family. It's a group effort for Loroi. That means the fierce competition over limited jobs and positions of authority that destabilize human societies experiencing "youth bulges" does not happen to Loroi. Therefore the Loroi should have less issues with stability than humans at the same rate of growth.

Human reproduction rates on the other hand are also naturally high, not the OP levels of the Loroi and Umiak but still high, especially in peacetime. With the right policies, incentives and targeted taxation it is easy to see a return to a 'natural' ratio of 4 births per woman which would mean a doubling of the population every single generation. Combined with technological means of longevity and medical assistance human population could explode by orders of magnitude in a matter of decades. It's an upfront cost in terms of the incentives, women being retracted from the workforce and educationt but it will pay it for itself and have sizeable dividends in a single generation.

There's a limit to how large a population can grow before it starts to get ugly. There's also to consider that more people require more resources and even if those can be supplied by accessing new sources, those sources will be less efficient. A larger percentage of the economy will therefore be busy simply maintaining the economy. Also, large policies are cumbersome. We can see this in every small nation that nevertheless manages to compete with far larger ones. The nordic countries for example are doing very well per capita. High trust societies are difficult to maintain after a certain size.

[inxsi]

I was wondering if humanity had restrictions on hair length for the TCA/Scout Corps? I was thinking they did, based on the bridge crew of the Bellarmine but then I saw that the character on page 5, panel 3 with long hair. Is it just personal preference/convenience?

[Arioch]

I was wondering if humanity had restrictions on hair length for the TCA/Scout Corps? I was thinking they did, based on the bridge crew of the Bellarmine but then I saw that the character on page 5, panel 3 with long hair. Is it just personal preference/convenience?

Even though the Scout Corps is technically military (like the Coast Guard), I don't think at this tech level they'd need to regulate personal appearance for crew on a starship.

[dragoongfa]

I was wondering if humanity had restrictions on hair length for the TCA/Scout Corps? I was thinking they did, based on the bridge crew of the Bellarmine but then I saw that the character on page 5, panel 3 with long hair. Is it just personal preference/convenience?

Even though the Scout Corps is technically military (like the Coast Guard), I don't think at this tech level they'd need to regulate personal appearance for crew on a starship.

Certain inconvenient things eventually become traditional, especially in the military, regardless of their eventual relevance or not.

It can also be argued that any military unit whose mission parameters includes ground based operations to keep the regulations in place for a 'just in case' scenario; one accustomed to a high hygiene environment would be shocked to learn how nasty life will get when on any temporary military position. Hell a proper barracks can become nasty and infested with all kinds of lice and vermin really quick. Best to nub certain things in the bud before they become a problem so: 'Your haircut is against regulations; drop down and give me twenty then go to the barber and get shaved',

[Mk_C]

Hell a proper barracks can become nasty and infested with all kinds of lice and vermin really quick. Best to nub certain things in the bud before they become a problem so: 'Your haircut is against regulations; drop down and give me twenty then go to the barber and get shaved',

It's a spaceship with hand-picked crew, not USS Fitzgerald.

[Arioch]

Modern militaries allow female servicemen to have longer hair, so it's clearly not a serious problem.

Yes I know that women aren't usually in the trenches on the front lines, but neither are Scout Corps personnel.

[jterlecki]

Talking about the military, how well would humans do in 'wargames' if the scenario *assumed* they had identical tech compared to the Loroi. Humanity has been practicing warfare in some form or another since the beginning of written history and while they never had to fight a real war in space, I assume complex simulations have could allowed them to prepare and practice for the real thing in some form or another. Humanity also would have a lot of people with decades with military experience (where as the Loroi seem to be losing an attrition war).

[Ithekro]

It would depend on just how good humanities' assumption were on Loroi and Umiak technology. Since Alex is the only known human to have encountered either species, and he hasn't been able to report in yet, Earth's war colleges got very little to go on.

[Arioch]

Talking about the military, how well would humans do in 'wargames' if the scenario *assumed* they had identical tech compared to the Loroi.

Well, this involves an awful lot of hypotheticals, so let's just say "we'll find out."

I find that often people view humanity as unusually warlike... of course we don't have much to compare ourselves to, but I tend to think that humans are no more inherently warlike than what I think would be essentially required for survival of the species. I grew up during a time of domestic turmoil and imminent international nuclear war, with some people so disillusioned that they refused to have children because they were sure that human society would go full Mad Max. And yet, here we are decades later, with a stable society (or, at least, in was a few years ago) and the spectre of nuclear holocast barely even a memory, with people melting down over not using the preferred pronouns. But I digress...

The Loroi have been fighting interstellar wars since humanity was waging medieval crusades against each other... they don't lack experience. But maybe... a different point of view that was not bred for war might prove useful to them.

[Ithekro]

Wargame colleges do things like that as games. Table top or computer games to test scenarios. Its a thing that's done from time to time, without needing to use actual troops or ships for war games. The trouble here is that the humans do not have information on the two powers technology (or at least not more than what the Orgus could given them)

[jterlecki]

I find that often people view humanity as unusually warlike... of course we don't have much to compare ourselves to, but I tend to think that humans are no more inherently warlike than what I think would be essentially required for survival of the species.

I think it is because there is a viciousness that we don't commonly perceive in nature. While animals will fight for territory and mates, we fight over petty things like ideology or revenge, and as in another post, we as humans are incredibly efficient when it comes to killing others, as well as learning new ways to do so. Psionics aside, I could easily imagine some of our tougher warriors (members of various spec-op forces) give pause even to the Loroi due to their efficiency.

The Loroi have been fighting interstellar wars since humanity was waging medieval crusades against each other... they don't lack experience. But maybe... a different point of view that was not bred for war might prove useful to them.

Oh, I meant experience at a personal level - I am sure the collected experience of the Loroi on the matter is tremendeous, but knowing the subject matter and when to apply it are different matters. There are things that text books simply cannot teach.

But I am satisfied with your "We will need to see" answer!

[Arioch]

Oh, I meant experience at a personal level - I am sure the collected experience of the Loroi on the matter is tremendeous, but knowing the subject matter and when to apply it are different matters. There are things that text books simply cannot teach.

Humanity at this time hasn't been in a shooting space war, well... ever. How can human admirals have more personal combat experience than Loroi who have been at actual war for 25 years?

[jterlecki]

Ah, well, I was under the assumption that most Loroi senior officers didn't have 25 years of service - that they typically died 'young'. That would make a big difference.

From my perspective (and I may be wrong) adapting our current strategies to space warfare wouldn't be that hard and it would allow human commanders to formulate tactics and strategies.

[dragoongfa]

Ah, well, I was under the assumption that most Loroi senior officers didn't have 25 years of service - that they typically died 'young'. That would make a big difference.

From my perspective (and I may be wrong) adapting our current strategies to space warfare wouldn't be that hard and it would allow human commanders to formulate tactics and strategies.

Space warfare is radically different that any form of terrestrial warfighting, including naval and aerial; it would be an entire essay to just cover the critical differences sufficiently so I will try to be brief.

Space naval warfare happens in a fully three dimensional physical environment that is not hostile to the vessels traveling within it. Sea faring ship fight against the weather and sea and all loses happen when the ship 'sinks'. Airplanes have to fight against weather, aerodynamics and gravity; some light damage on the airframe is enough to bring the plane down for good. A spaceship doesn't fight against anything as it travels while it can only be lost with its complete destruction/immobilization (depending on if they are in friendly territory or not).

Furthermore physics alone are a major bitch in maneuvering, targeting and engaging. With the vast distances involved spaceships have to travel absurdly fast, in Outsider they may even go up to 0.1c with relative ease with the drive systems involved. It would take a lot of training and on hands experience for a spaceborne navy to formulate the tactics and doctrines to fight as well as procure the necessary equipment.

[Ithekro]

Humanity has zero experience in space warfare in the 2160s. We have theories only and little to no understanding of the technologies involved in the current war. While our theoretical tactics might work, we don't have the tech to back up these theories against the more technologically advanced races. Our fastest ships have an acceleration of 7gs, while the Umiak typically have ships pulling 24+g acceleration. Our weapons do not have the range to engage targets that can accelerate and maneuver at with those rapid changes of vector. Our ships have no defensive screens, and armor fit of a light escort vessel. Our most destructive weapons are railguns, that have an effective range against such quick targets of maybe 4,000 kilometers, where as the Umiak have effective ranges with their commonly used medium plasma focuses of 40,000 kilometers, with them able to damage targets moving with 30g acceleration out to 120,000 kilometers.

The Loroi have fought space wars of one kind or another since beginning of the Late Middle Ages. They have plenty of documented experiences to fall back on, and commanders that have seen action for the last decade or so.

About the only thing I can think of that Alex could provide is another perspective on enemy movements. He would not be use to the Umiak patterns and thus might be able to piece together a trap or a oddity in the enemy's plans without the preconceived notions of the existing war playing in his head. Something the local commanders might miss out of hand due to how often such events occur.

As for humanity as a whole. Unless the war continues at a relative stalemate for another decade or so, and the Loroi and Humanity use that time to use Earth space as a stepping off point for another offensive built locally after some massive retooling, Earth's only contribution to the war effort (aside from Alex) could be its location on the far flank of Umiak space. But that would be hard to exploit unless the conflict takes years before either side is ready for an offensive again after the current one peters out.

[CNW]

Talking about the military, how well would humans do in 'wargames' if the scenario *assumed* they had identical tech compared to the Loroi.

Well, this involves an awful lot of hypotheticals, so let's just say "we'll find out."

<snip>

The Loroi have been fighting interstellar wars since humanity was waging medieval crusades against each other... they don't lack experience. But maybe... a different point of view that was not bred for war might prove useful to them.

Okay, you have my full attention now.. although we likely won't see it until something like a very late chapter

[Bamax]

Talking about the military, how well would humans do in 'wargames' if the scenario *assumed* they had identical tech compared to the Loroi.

Well, this involves an awful lot of hypotheticals, so let's just say "we'll find out."

I find that often people view humanity as unusually warlike... of course we don't have much to compare ourselves to, but I tend to think that humans are no more inherently warlike than what I think would be essentially required for survival of the species. I grew up during a time of domestic turmoil and imminent international nuclear war, with some people so disillusioned that they refused to have children because they were sure that human society would go full Mad Max. And yet, here we are decades later, with a stable society (or, at least, in was a few years ago) and the spectre of nuclear holocast barely even a memory, with people melting down over not using the preferred pronouns. But I digress...

The Loroi have been fighting interstellar wars since humanity was waging medieval crusades against each other... they don't lack experience. But maybe... a different point of view that was not bred for war might prove useful to them.

Is that not the male POV?

Their world is dominated by women, and we all know there re fundamental differences in how men and women behave.

Men: Really care a lot about respect.

Women: Care a lot about love.

Not to say that either care for nothing else, but the Umiak have never had to fight a bunch of human guys.

Human males tend to outperform females in chess and also videoames...likely because of their desire dor respect driving them so hard.

Human males may even desire the Umiak respect them in battle, whereas the Loroi could not care less and just hate them.

In other words, humans, if they play their cards right, could potentially end the war diplomatically or strategically or both.

That I can see....since neither the Loroi or the Umiak have much experience dealing with....all the manliness.

That will have an effect. It already is.

Beryl can readily tell that Alex is not like an ordinary Loroi male, and I think that's why she likes him.