Loroi Trade translation request general

[Bamax]

If by "clean" you mean "not lethally radioactive for the next million years", then dropping space-rocks would be the preferred method, as it may only eject enough dust into the air to prevent photosynthesis for a few years, thus starving the native population.  Once the dust settles and all the natives are dead, you move your troops and colonists in and repopulate the world.  But if by "clean", you mean "maintaining a life-supportive environment", then neither space rocks nor nukes are acceptable, and a full-scale genocide must be carried out by orbital, air, sea, and ground troops in a protracted war of attrition.  Finally, if your goal is to make the world uninhabitable for anyone for the foreseeable future, then reducing the world's surface to radioactive ash and slag is the way to go.  ANYWAY, we seem to have gone way off-topic.

The nuclear submarine guys could ride it out. Fish when they need food.

The shock waves alone would likely rupture the hulls of any submarines 'lucky' enough to avoid a direct hit.  There would be no one left to fish, and no fish left, either.

The intent of a total planetary scrub is to wipe out all forms of life on a planetary surface, including in the oceans.  A planetary scrub with space rocks would either boil the seas or splash them up onto land -- likely both.  The Chicxulub Event was just one asteroid, so Imagine the Chicxulub Event happening a thousand times over the entire surface (oceans too) of an Earth-sized planet.  Some of those rocks would target geologic faults; others would target volcanos and volcanic fields, and the rest would target industrial centers, airports, harbors, and densely-populated urban areas.  For example, just one hit from a hundred-meter asteroid on the Yellowstone Caldera would trigger a mega-volcanic event more than 1,000 times larger than the 1980 eruption of Mount St. Helens.  A thousand such volcanos would fill the atmosphere with dust, ash, and sulfur dioxide, which would combine with steam from the boiling seas and form sulfuric acid.

A total planetary scrub is not a warning; it is a final solution on a global scale.

Depends on how thorough one is and how much intel one has on the planet they are bombarding.


Aliens won't neccesarily know a world's weak points to target them.

Incidentally, world powers of our modern world actually are aware of them and have said as much that if a nuclear exchange ever occurred, all weak points like you mentioned would be nuked

[Keklas Rekobah]

... A total planetary scrub is not a warning; it is a final solution on a global scale.

Depends on how thorough one is and how much intel one has on the planet they are bombarding.  Aliens won't neccesarily know a world's weak points to target them. ...

Volcanos are easily visible from orbit.

The mid-oceanic ridges are also detectable from Earth orbit, if only as slight changes in velocity as a satellite (or hypothetical strike cruiser squadron) passes over them -- this is one of the reasons why our GPS needs almost constant "tweaking".

It does not take much more than a Geology-101 class to be able to point at a mountain chain and say, "Therein lies a fault".

Industrial centers, harbors, and airports are visibly detectable from orbit, as are population centers and military bases.

[Cthulhu]

Sorry to bother, but I thought of a few ideas to spice up my fanfic with, so for that, I need to know a few words in Trade.

1. You've said that a warrior may receive an "upgraded" spoken name to honor her achievements. What is this concept called, and does it require a ritual of some sort, perhaps a ceremonial peer approval? (Maybe changing names this way is what would make a Loroi into a champion, and it's called rise-above-the-clouds, since nial=Champion)?

2. Is there a reversal of this concept, for the case if a warrior is dishonorably discharged, exiled or (like in ancient times) chose/was forced to become a mercenary/ronin? Like curse-name, for instance, or it may be tied to the fact why a mercenary is called a "gauntlet".

3. There must be specialized telepathic healers (psi-psychiatrists) among the Doranzer caste, but do they have a special rank or name? Like Mystic, for example.

4. The Deinarid Loroi didn't have honey, milk or eggs, so the variety of sweets they could make would be quite limited. Was there even anything to make sugar from? Also, what would be a traditional Deinar sweet or a dessert? Just a pozet with a sweet filling? Or maybe cotton candy?

[Arioch]

Sorry to bother, but I thought of a few ideas to spice up my fanfic with, so for that, I need to know a few words in Trade.

1. You've said that a warrior may receive an "upgraded" spoken name to honor her achievements. What is this concept called, and does it require a ritual of some sort, perhaps a ceremonial peer approval? (Maybe changing names this way is what would make a Loroi into a champion, and it's called rise-above-the-clouds, since nial=Champion)?

2. Is there a reversal of this concept, for the case if a warrior is dishonorably discharged, exiled or (like in ancient times) chose/was forced to become a mercenary/ronin? Like curse-name, for instance, or it may be tied to the fact why a mercenary is called a "gauntlet".

The selection of a spoken name is not itself a ceremony, but rather a component of other ceremonies. For Loroi the spoken name is essentially an epithet or nickname, and an individual may accumulate more than one over time for notable deeds or qualities, for good or ill. Which one is used depends mainly on the consensus of the warrior's present society, or society at large for a particularly famous (or infamous) person. There are a number of ceremonies in which a particular spoken name is formalized, the first and most common being the diral graduation. There are and have been a variety of others, in the present and across history and cultures. These included (but are not limited to) attainment of particular titles or honors.

The most common such ceremony to recognize the accomplishments of an individual warrior (and which might result in the affirmation of a different spoken name) is derived from Zaral culture and is called the tezomas or "tribute." This can take a variety of forms; in some cases it's a simple private ceremony, in others it is a public spectacle reminiscent of a Roman Triumph.

Some subcultures ruled by monarchies included the selection of a regnant name as part of the coronation ceremony, and this would be a case where the individual sometimes could choose her own name.

In most historical Loroi societies, once having passed the warrior rites, a warrior retained her warrior status even if she was convicted of criminal behavior. If they did not rise to the severity of capital punishment, crimes were usually punished temporary or permanent expulsion from society (the tadolat or "exile"). Details of expulsion varied across subcultures and over time: an exiled warrior's hair was often shorn; a permanent exile might be subjected to oibo ("branding"); the Belerid variant often included medir ("stranding"). Her crimes might have earned the exile a new spoken name (or the affirmation of an existing one).

Loroi mercenary companies filled their ranks with exiles and disenfranchised warriors (those ending up on the losing side and refusing to accept new leadership), but not civilians. The concept of a discharge from the military into civilian life is a relatively modern development, and children who failed the warrior rites were never warriors to begin with (and were never affirmed warrior names). The customs regarding such a discharge vary depending on the circumstances, but it is considered a matter of shame for everyone involved, so it's not usually a matter for elaborate ritual.

3. There must be specialized telepathic healers (psi-psychiatrists) among the Doranzer caste, but do they have a special rank or name? Like Mystic, for example.

Doranzer are medical technicians, not counselors. Psychological counseling or treatment is either considered a personnel issue and the purview of the Soroin, or severe cases may be escalated to the care of male orders (including the Nedatan Tiret).

4. The Deinarid Loroi didn't have honey, milk or eggs, so the variety of sweets they could make would be quite limited. Was there even anything to make sugar from? Also, what would be a traditional Deinar sweet or a dessert? Just a pozet with a sweet filling? Or maybe cotton candy?

The sibreg fruit was the main source of sugar, though it's not very sweet, somewhat like cantaloupe. There were also strains of the bizal tuber bred for sweetness (like a sweet potato), and misesa can be malted like barley. Deinar cuisine does not have a lot of dessert-type foods; the flavors of even "sweet" dishes are mild and rather bland (like Russian or Japanese desserts). They had some hard sibreg candies (sabat) which taste like those horrible pale Lifesavers candies that everyone discards to get to the cherry one, but most sweet dishes are just sweeter variants of regular dishes like pozet.

[Cthulhu]

-snipped due to awesomeness overload-

Whoa, didn't expect such a lengthy and detailed explanation, thanks! Just two small inquiries, was the tezomas ceremony also practiced by Zaral's rival Arran? Second, is there any word for the act of relinquishing one's spoken name, for example if a warrior was forced to become a mercenary due to her clan's destruction and the resulting dishonor?

Doranzer are medical technicians, not counselors. Psychological counseling or treatment is either considered a personnel issue and the purview of the Soroin, or severe cases may be escalated to the care of male orders (including the Nedatan Tiret).

Merely technicians? I'm confused, if there is a Doranzer Disis, "Surgeon", shouldn't the Doranzer be a proper Doctor/Healer caste then? The Loroi are not cyborgs, are they, or why is a surgeon considered to be a technician?

The sibreg fruit was the main source of sugar, though it's not very sweet, somewhat like cantaloupe. There were also strains of the bizal tuber bred for sweetness (like a sweet potato), and misesa can be malted like barley. Deinar cuisine does not have a lot of dessert-type foods; the flavors of even "sweet" dishes are mild and rather bland (like Russian or Japanese desserts). They had some hard sibreg candies (sabat) which taste like those horrible pale Lifesavers candies that everyone discards to get to the cherry one, but most sweet dishes are just sweeter variants of regular dishes like pozet.

I've never found the Japanese or Russian sweet dishes to be bland. The first were just peculiar instead, and the latter weren't that much different from other European sweets. There are many Russian specialty shops in Germany (full-sized supermarkets, actually), the sweets and desserts sold there are quite good.
Anyway, do the Loroi have something like cotton candy, and what would it be called?

[SVlad]

the flavors of even "sweet" dishes are mild and rather bland (like Russian or Japanese desserts).

Don't know about Japanese, but now I'm curious what are considered Russian "sweet" dishes from US citizen point of view?

As I neither hear Russian food considered bland nor foreign food much sweeter.

[Tamri]

I also don't understand the comparison of Russian and Japanese cuisine. In Russian, unlike in Japanese, honey was actively and widely used, and somewhere since the 18th century sugar has actively appeared on the menu, therefore in our traditional cuisine there are quite a lot of quite sweet dishes and confectionery (and some VERY sweet... ).

[Krulle]

the flavors of even "sweet" dishes are mild and rather bland (like Russian or Japanese desserts).

Don't know about Japanese, but now I'm curious what are considered Russian "sweet" dishes from US citizen point of view?

As I neither hear Russian food considered bland nor foreign food much sweeter.

Russian tea is a treat. Although most orient teas are also toothaches.

[Tamri]

Russian tea is a treat. Although most orient teas are also toothaches.

Russian tea can be divided into two categories: very strong without sugar and very strong and very sweet

[Arioch]

was the tezomas ceremony also practiced by Zaral's rival Arran?

Yes, and the Arran variety tended to be more elaborate. The mainland Mestirot nations of Deinar (excluding the Login ones) were analogous to the nations of medieval Europe in that while they each had distinct subcultures, there were also a lot of shared customs, especially in regard to diplomacy and warfare.

Second, is there any word for the act of relinquishing one's spoken name, for example if a warrior was forced to become a mercenary due to her clan's destruction and the resulting dishonor?

A warrior didn't lose her spoken name when leaving a clan, at least, not the personal part of it. She would lose her title and probably couldn't use the clan portion of her name if the clan still existed (though some hard-headed warriors continued to use their clan name even after the clan was destroyed, to demonstrate their loyalty), but the spoken name is an epithet -- it's what other people call you, and you don't have much control over that.

Merely technicians? I'm confused, if there is a Doranzer Disis, "Surgeon", shouldn't the Doranzer be a proper Doctor/Healer caste then? The Loroi are not cyborgs, are they, or why is a surgeon considered to be a technician?

TL11 surgery is more about "driving" medical devices than it is actually putting your own hands in the patient. But regardless, surgery and psychology have almost nothing to do with each other.

I've never found the Japanese or Russian sweet dishes to be bland. The first were just peculiar instead, and the latter weren't that much different from other European sweets. There are many Russian specialty shops in Germany (full-sized supermarkets, actually), the sweets and desserts sold there are quite good.
Anyway, do the Loroi have something like cotton candy, and what would it be called?

Cotton candy seems like something that's much too fun and frivolous for the dour Deinar Loroi. When I was a kid during the Space Race, we were obsessed with "astronaut food," even though it was pretty gross, because we all wanted to be astronauts. I think Loroi kids mostly want to eat warrior food, and that means stuff that's easily preserved and transported, like hard candies.

Western (especially American) desserts tend to be very sweet. Traditional Japanese cuisine is about very subtle flavors -- they even make a big deal about what kind of water is used to make white rice -- and the desserts are sweet but mildly so. In my (admittedly limited) experience with Russian cakes and cookies, they were sweet but not sugar cane sweet. (Though it should be noted that my Russian colleagues warned me that the handful of Russian restaurants in the area were not of good quality -- though that didn't seem to stop them from patronizing them.)

[Cthulhu]

Yes, and the Arran variety tended to be more elaborate. The mainland Mestirot nations of Deinar (excluding the Login ones) were analogous to the nations of medieval Europe in that while they each had distinct subcultures, there were also a lot of shared customs, especially in regard to diplomacy and warfare.

That's what I aimed for, an elaborate ceremony sounds very good.

A warrior didn't lose her spoken name when leaving a clan, at least, not the personal part of it. She would lose her title and probably couldn't use the clan portion of her name if the clan still existed (though some hard-headed warriors continued to use their clan name even after the clan was destroyed, to demonstrate their loyalty), but the spoken name is an epithet -- it's what other people call you, and you don't have much control over that.

Interesting, so I'd guess me inventing a clan-specific custom wouldn't be strange. I may write an "ancient legend" kind of fanfic next, and it obviously needs drama, suffering, self-loathing, struggle and triumph.

TL11 surgery is more about "driving" medical devices than it is actually putting your own hands in the patient. But regardless, surgery and psychology have almost nothing to do with each other.

No, I simply thought that all medical issues would be handled by a dedicated caste, if the Loroi went as far as to create one. For the telepathic Loroi, there should be specialists that can deal with psionic issues as well. Even though the advanced stuff is handled by the Tiret, there could be more baseline personnel, especially near the frontlines. A citadel's medbay should have a councilor that's capable of "stitching" a frayed mind back together, or at least to understand what kind of PTSD a warrior is suffering from. What caste/rank could such a specialist have?

Cotton candy seems like something that's much too fun and frivolous for the dour Deinar Loroi. When I was a kid during the Space Race, we were obsessed with "astronaut food," even though it was pretty gross, because we all wanted to be astronauts. I think Loroi kids mostly want to eat warrior food, and that means stuff that's easily preserved and transported, like hard candies.

Frivolous? Desserts simply cannot be decadent enough, that's the whole point of it!

Western (especially American) desserts tend to be very sweet. Traditional Japanese cuisine is about very subtle flavors -- they even make a big deal about what kind of water is used to make white rice -- and the desserts are sweet but mildly so. In my (admittedly limited) experience with Russian cakes and cookies, they were sweet but not sugar cane sweet. (Though it should be noted that my Russian colleagues warned me that the handful of Russian restaurants in the area were not of good quality -- though that didn't seem to stop them from patronizing them.)

The sweetness is rather an issue of industrialized food production, the factories in the US love to stuff their damned High-fructose corn syrup into everything. I've baked quite a number of cakes, Russian as well as American ones among them, and there isn't that much of a difference. Also, blandness is a completely different concept from sweetness, otherwise, you could just munch sugar cubes. That N.Y. Times cake recipe, for example, is not overly sweet, but still very tasty.

[SVlad]

The most common sweet in Russia in my opinion is Varenye (an analogue of jam). Also hard candies and caramel candies. As for baking - it's really less sweet in comparison. Some suggest (pankakes) that it is eaten with jam. Also, as Tamri mentioned, drinking tea with sugar cubes.

PS
The Wikipedia cross-language links on this topic is a complete and total mess. Most of them linked to the false friends of a translator
PPS
TIL that marmelade in English is just a kind of jam, when in Russia it's something completely different - a kind of gummy candy. All my childhood I was surprised how the English make sandwiches with marmelade, but it appears that it's was just shitty books translators.
PPPS

you could just munch sugar cubes.

You make it sound like it's something bad.

[Arioch]

No, I simply thought that all medical issues would be handled by a dedicated caste, if the Loroi went as far as to create one. For the telepathic Loroi, there should be specialists that can deal with psionic issues as well. Even though the advanced stuff is handled by the Tiret, there could be more baseline personnel, especially near the frontlines. A citadel's medbay should have a councilor that's capable of "stitching" a frayed mind back together, or at least to understand what kind of PTSD a warrior is suffering from. What caste/rank could such a specialist have?

Even in our own system, medical doctors and psychologists/psychiatrists are completely different professions; if you go to an MD's office complaining about voices in your head, he or she can't do much for you, except maybe to give you sedatives and pack you off to a psych ward.

In the Loroi system, education and psychology are considered "human resources" issues and are dealt with by specialists within the Soroin caste or by specialists in male orders. Loroi mental health care has a significant telepathic elements, and counselors need to have specific telepathic abilities, so the skillsets of Soroin Tiret and Doranzer medtechs are very different.

[GeoModder]

The most common sweet in Russia in my opinion is Varenye (an analogue of jam). Also hard candies and caramel candies. As for baking - it's really less sweet in comparison. Some suggest (pankakes) that it is eaten with jam. Also, as Tamri mentioned, drinking tea with sugar cubes.

PS
The Wikipedia cross-language links on this topic is a complete and total mess. Most of them linked to the false friends of a translator
PPS
TIL that marmelade in English is just a kind of jam, when in Russia it's something completely different - a kind of gummy candy. All my childhood I was surprised how the English make sandwiches with marmelade, but it appears that it's was just shitty books translators.
PPPS

you could just munch sugar cubes.

You make it sound like it's something bad.

Hear hear!

[SVlad]

Hear hear!

I didn't get it.

[Arioch]

Hear hear!

I didn't get it.

"Hear hear" is a somewhat antiquated way of saying, "I agree with you!"

[Cthulhu]

In the Loroi system, education and psychology are considered "human resources" issues and are dealt with by specialists within the Soroin caste or by specialists in male orders. Loroi mental health care has a significant telepathic elements, and counselors need to have specific telepathic abilities, so the skillsets of Soroin Tiret and Doranzer medtechs are very different.

My question was why the (female) Tiret is a Soroin, and not a Doranzer. I thought that all health issues would be handled by the Doranzer?

Anyway, would a bigger medbay (like the one of a citadel) have a specialist that can at least diagnose or/and test a patient's telepathy? Or would such a specialist reside somewhere else? What rank and caste would she have? A Soroin Tiret sitting in HR?

Hear hear!

I didn't get it.

[Arioch]

In the Loroi system, education and psychology are considered "human resources" issues and are dealt with by specialists within the Soroin caste or by specialists in male orders. Loroi mental health care has a significant telepathic elements, and counselors need to have specific telepathic abilities, so the skillsets of Soroin Tiret and Doranzer medtechs are very different.

My question was why the (female) Tiret is a Soroin, and not a Doranzer. I thought that all health issues would be handled by the Doranzer?

I'm sorry if I'm not being clear, but I'm not sure how many different ways I can say the same thing: the skills of medical doctors and psychologists are almost completely different, so I don't see any reason why they should be in the same caste. Doranzer are not the "healer class;" they are combat medtechs. If you've ever been to see a psychologist, you don't go to a hospital; you go to his or her office. Loroi psychiatric treatment requires telepathic techniques, not machinery. Those telepathic techniques are mostly useless to a field medic or a battlefield surgeon, and a Doranzer's medkit or autodoc machinery are mostly useless to a counselor. There's nothing in a shipboard infirmary that is useful for treating mental illness (except perhaps sedatives). Each unit (and ship) will have at least one Doranzer medtech AND a Soroin Tiret counselor.

Soroin Tiret is an O3 rank. I'm sure there are also higher and lower ranking counselors, but that's not defined.

[Cthulhu]

Doranzer are not the "healer class;" they are combat medtechs.

Yes, this was my misconception, thank you for your patience!

Soroin Tiret is an O3 rank. I'm sure there are also higher and lower ranking counselors, but that's not defined.

Okay, fortunately enough, I've never been in a psychologist's office, so it seems that I got it mixed up a bit. To the Soroin Tiret's office it is, then.

[Tamri]

In general, Jim is right. Psychotherapy is not related to medicine, at least not to the health sector. With a stretch, psychiatry is related to it, but only partially.

Doranzer, if I understand their role correctly, can only help in case of physical disorders and some, the most obvious disorders of the mental plan, when assistance is limited to "giving the victim tranquilizers and sederactives to reach the hospital."

Psychological problems are solved by other specialists.

True, I doubt that within five or ten jumps of the front line you will find Loroi men, even if they are (civilian) medical professionals.

Too close to the front, considering the attitude of the Loroi towards their men and their losses (men) at the initial stage of the war.