Otherwise, 15.000 should be enough to create Crossfire, with roughly the same level of graphics as shown in the comics.
If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
Moderator: Outsider Moderators
Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
With this budget, you could do some dating sim to feature Beryl, Cloud and the others. That would be immensely popular, but still easy enough to be created within a reasonable timeframe. We could employ wolf329 to draw the pictures, although it may turn the whole game into a PG18+ version.
Otherwise, 15.000 should be enough to create Crossfire, with roughly the same level of graphics as shown in the comics.
Otherwise, 15.000 should be enough to create Crossfire, with roughly the same level of graphics as shown in the comics.
My fanfic: A sword that wields itself
Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
Arent wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:04 amFor Outsider, I would usually do a strategy game. But since there are only 15000$, I would just do a simply Visual Novel of the storyline, 3-5 decision points & 2 endings (+bad ends), using a standard engine.Bamax wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:15 amLet's say you are given 15,000 USD (about the price of some economy cars) to develop a computer or videogame based on the Outsider universe.
With only $15000 you must:
1. Hire game designers and graphic artists and make a deadline for game completion.
2. Decide what gameplay will be like.
How I would do it: Keep the dev team small.
Completion date: A year and a half from the start so 1 year and six months.
Gameplay: I would mimic 2d Star Control 2 somewhat, only with an unlimited space map where you can actually run away by pure speed if possible. No speed caps other than light speed... but fuel won't let you do that anyway.
The second mode of gameplay would involve a type of visual novel point and click, purely for role playing.
You can visit many worlds but only select ones have NPC's to interact with.
Plot: You are in command of Wintertide's ship as Wintertide. And her subordinates when gameplay requires she stay aboard while sending crew to get things done.
Objectives: DON'T get blown up at the naam battle, and assist Stillstorm's fleet.
How would you do an outsider based videogame/computer game.
If I had 30000$, I would just hire a Visual Novel studio to create the game for me.
Honestly I would love a mix of asteroids-like newtonian 2-d combat witj limited fuel and space navigation like Star Control 2.
The main difference being that gravity from planets is real and game time is accelerated a bitduring navigation travel so it won't seem to take forever.
Like Star Control 2' if you take too long the Umiak wlll start taking over every system until you have nowhere to hide from them.
I would mix thas with an RPG styled after Pur Personal Space.
That game made you actually care about NPC's, but whether you even had the option to treat them nicer was heaviliy dependent on your mood, which depended on whether you worked too much or put aside time for leisure on occasion. Skill trees would depend on how you usef your leisute time and what relationships you decided to forge or avoid. Which agaim would lead events to playthrougj that you would otherwise miss.
Ultimately you could make people dislike you to the point where you make them cry as you betray them, not help and let people risk their lives instead of you, or be as cruel as possible.
Or you can try to make alll love you, which comes at the cost of those friends vlosest to you liking you less since you sc cater to them less.
Such a game could and likely would reach cutt Classic status.
Since that is what both are anyway, the average person who is mot a scifi spzce gaming afiicanado won't know about either.
Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
"You have just trebled the required budget."
Yes! Anyone want to go for 4?
Don't play WoW, so don't get the reference, but what I'm thinking of shouldn't be too complex. In every scenario, various NPC's tell the player to do something, many of which contradict each other. The computer can track which of these actions the player choose to complete, and tot up how close the player is to being attacked or killed by the NPC's present. The goal for the player is to play the game out to completion without triggering any of the kill conditions. Dying will send you back to a previous scenario, where you get to make different choices. Basically the player is trying to navigate their way through a highly elaborate "choice tree" where the logic regarding what gets you killed is consistent but hidden from the player until they play enough scenarios to figure it out. Once you get to the end, that player character is played out, but other characters could then unlock.
Yes! Anyone want to go for 4?
Don't play WoW, so don't get the reference, but what I'm thinking of shouldn't be too complex. In every scenario, various NPC's tell the player to do something, many of which contradict each other. The computer can track which of these actions the player choose to complete, and tot up how close the player is to being attacked or killed by the NPC's present. The goal for the player is to play the game out to completion without triggering any of the kill conditions. Dying will send you back to a previous scenario, where you get to make different choices. Basically the player is trying to navigate their way through a highly elaborate "choice tree" where the logic regarding what gets you killed is consistent but hidden from the player until they play enough scenarios to figure it out. Once you get to the end, that player character is played out, but other characters could then unlock.
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Keklas Rekobah
- Posts: 491
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Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
↑ The branches of the "choice tree" would be weighted depending on the character species, class, level, and miscellaneous proficiencies ... this could work.
“Qua is the sine qua non of sine qua non qua sine qua non.” -- Attributed to many
Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
From the 15k, how much do you pay yourself? How many hours do you have available?
It's plausible to make a completed game using cheap Fiverr sellers, but it requires an absurd amount of "producer" hours to scout, communicate, organize, etc. Fiverr is good and cheap, but it is slow.
You can potentially make any nonsense which is a reskin of a popular game. For example, hire someone who has pre-built the tech for Subway Surfers clones, get some Outsider-y models and animations, have a Cloud-alike running through the corridors of a Umiak-alike cruiser, trying to escape. Even if you limit youself to expensive Top Rated Sellers and presume you need to buy everything twice due to the first attempt being wrong, something like that would be easily beneath 5k and appear to have the same quality as what's on the app store.
The more custom the game is, the more expensive it will be.
I think what I would try to do is make a full game out of a single game mechanic. Look at the combat in Megaman Battlenetwork or One Step from Eden, but replace it with tactical ship combat. Maybe the player can select a faction, a ship, load it out, and then engage in 'wave battles' against the other side. Lots of flashy graphics. Just an arcade-y version of Ch1 pg75~84. Not about playing as the Loroi or Strike Group 51, but as the Tsunami, Black Razor, Torrent, or Winter Tide against their specific zone of the battle. Maybe there could be parallax layers of simulated battle behind the player's layer to give a grander sense of scale. Maybe there's a stage map that pretends to be the Steppes, like you're pushing back the other side.
I don't know if that gets done under 15k due to the art budget, but it's what I'd try.
It's plausible to make a completed game using cheap Fiverr sellers, but it requires an absurd amount of "producer" hours to scout, communicate, organize, etc. Fiverr is good and cheap, but it is slow.
You can potentially make any nonsense which is a reskin of a popular game. For example, hire someone who has pre-built the tech for Subway Surfers clones, get some Outsider-y models and animations, have a Cloud-alike running through the corridors of a Umiak-alike cruiser, trying to escape. Even if you limit youself to expensive Top Rated Sellers and presume you need to buy everything twice due to the first attempt being wrong, something like that would be easily beneath 5k and appear to have the same quality as what's on the app store.
The more custom the game is, the more expensive it will be.
I think what I would try to do is make a full game out of a single game mechanic. Look at the combat in Megaman Battlenetwork or One Step from Eden, but replace it with tactical ship combat. Maybe the player can select a faction, a ship, load it out, and then engage in 'wave battles' against the other side. Lots of flashy graphics. Just an arcade-y version of Ch1 pg75~84. Not about playing as the Loroi or Strike Group 51, but as the Tsunami, Black Razor, Torrent, or Winter Tide against their specific zone of the battle. Maybe there could be parallax layers of simulated battle behind the player's layer to give a grander sense of scale. Maybe there's a stage map that pretends to be the Steppes, like you're pushing back the other side.
I don't know if that gets done under 15k due to the art budget, but it's what I'd try.
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TerrifyingKitten
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- Location: about 3 feet behind you.
Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
How about a mod for Stellaris to add the Loroi to an existing game?
Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/fil ... =744437027TerrifyingKitten wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:57 amHow about a mod for Stellaris to add the Loroi to an existing game?
Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
If human, weigh personal survival, improving Human-Loroi relations, acquiring info on Loroi allies (with extra weighting for Historians)Keklas Rekobah wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:29 pm↑ The branches of the "choice tree" would be weighted depending on the character species, class, level, and miscellaneous proficiencies ... this could work.
If Barsam, weigh improved Barsam-Loroi relations, acquire well-paying contracts, and learn as much about these Humans as possible
If Historian, weigh contacts with high ranking aliens (with extra weighting for Loroi), barter technology for influence, make connections with these new Humans
Each Loroi caste would have it's own weights and victory/defeat conditions. Ideas?
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TerrifyingKitten
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Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
Nice! Subscribed to it. Thanks.Arioch wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:17 amhttps://steamcommunity.com/workshop/fil ... =744437027TerrifyingKitten wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:57 amHow about a mod for Stellaris to add the Loroi to an existing game?
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silentstormpt
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Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
Stellaris mods (not just a race pallet) would require a 3d ship set (stations too) for all combatants as well, custom events and maybe a custom galaxy could work really well
Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
If I ever succeed in resuccitating my Atomic Space Navy project and advance it to the point of playability, it'll probably be a capable skeleton of a decent Outsider mod along the lines of what Arioch described. The intended mode of gameplay is tactical control of battles for, and spanning, individual solar systems with little or no FTL and realistic ranges and motions. Ship counts in Outsider are a bit higher and combat a gets a bit more cinematic than what I've got in mind for it, but I'd rather see something like that then trying to crunch Outsider down into the scope of something like Homeworld, much as I love Homeworld.
Also, I go by EatThePath most places these days, that mod is one I made. I'd be surprised if still works, it's been a long time since I had enough passion for Stellaris to update it. If it still works though, I'm glad people are still enjoying it.
If I absolutely had to make a game under the boundaries in the original post, the only why I can imagine that isn't a minimal effort cash grab mobile game is... still kind of minimum effort cash grab but, but 15k is not a lot to work with.
It'd be a visual novel form of the comic. Cram the pages or panels into Renpy or something, add some token dialogue choices that amount to nothing in the end, and throw all the remaining budget at Arioch to fund page creation and/or commission cover/interface art. Unless we're supposing the game is made after the comic is complete, it'd have to be an episodic release plan or something like that.
Also, I go by EatThePath most places these days, that mod is one I made. I'd be surprised if still works, it's been a long time since I had enough passion for Stellaris to update it. If it still works though, I'm glad people are still enjoying it.
If I absolutely had to make a game under the boundaries in the original post, the only why I can imagine that isn't a minimal effort cash grab mobile game is... still kind of minimum effort cash grab but, but 15k is not a lot to work with.
It'd be a visual novel form of the comic. Cram the pages or panels into Renpy or something, add some token dialogue choices that amount to nothing in the end, and throw all the remaining budget at Arioch to fund page creation and/or commission cover/interface art. Unless we're supposing the game is made after the comic is complete, it'd have to be an episodic release plan or something like that.
Atomic Space Race, a hard sci-fi orbital mechanics puzzle game.
Homeworld Fulcrum, a Homeworld Remastered Mod
Homeworld Fulcrum, a Homeworld Remastered Mod
Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
Hmmm.... one reason that I believe we enjoy Outsider is because the MC (Alex) is not making all the moves or everything happen.
He definitely is no Gary Stu nor like Rey from Star Wars
In gaming, this is often not the case, especially with RPG's.
As much fun as Star Control 2 was, I have to admit that the entire galaxy rose or fell based on the player's actions alone, robbing NPC's of any agency of their own.
The following quote is from an online article:
https://www.pcgamer.com/the-case-for-gi ... npcs-more/
So ultimately I think making a visual novel could indeed work, but knowing me, I would like it to be a mash up of a more newtonian (no boundaries in 2-D) Star Control 2, mixed with a healthy dose of visual novel still frames where not only your choices affected the universe, but those you chose to work with as well.
For example, let's say you choose an ally purely because they fight well. All good right?
Not quite, what if they do bad things to others when away from you, and no matter what you say thry won't stop?
In that case you could not prevent receiving the ire of all those who dislike your ally. Even if they are your allies, even that may be threatened by admitting such an untrusted ally to the group.
He definitely is no Gary Stu nor like Rey from Star Wars
In gaming, this is often not the case, especially with RPG's.
As much fun as Star Control 2 was, I have to admit that the entire galaxy rose or fell based on the player's actions alone, robbing NPC's of any agency of their own.
The following quote is from an online article:
https://www.pcgamer.com/the-case-for-gi ... npcs-more/
So ultimately I think making a visual novel could indeed work, but knowing me, I would like it to be a mash up of a more newtonian (no boundaries in 2-D) Star Control 2, mixed with a healthy dose of visual novel still frames where not only your choices affected the universe, but those you chose to work with as well.
For example, let's say you choose an ally purely because they fight well. All good right?
Not quite, what if they do bad things to others when away from you, and no matter what you say thry won't stop?
In that case you could not prevent receiving the ire of all those who dislike your ally. Even if they are your allies, even that may be threatened by admitting such an untrusted ally to the group.
Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
From that article:
"So reducing the player’s agency—their power to decide things for others—gives NPCs room to have agency of their own. And that’s especially important if they’re romantic interests. As Jayanth puts it: “How can we believe in a character’s romantic desires if they don’t have any other kinds of desires?”"
Interesting. I wonder how many players could handle a game designed that way?
"So reducing the player’s agency—their power to decide things for others—gives NPCs room to have agency of their own. And that’s especially important if they’re romantic interests. As Jayanth puts it: “How can we believe in a character’s romantic desires if they don’t have any other kinds of desires?”"
Interesting. I wonder how many players could handle a game designed that way?
Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
I forgot the quote! Here it is/was:
“Usually in games the protagonist’s actions ripple out into the world, and the entire game is about seeing the consequences of your choices. But in this instance you’re the one stuck with, and having to cope with, the consequences of an NPC’s actions.”
“Usually in games the protagonist’s actions ripple out into the world, and the entire game is about seeing the consequences of your choices. But in this instance you’re the one stuck with, and having to cope with, the consequences of an NPC’s actions.”
Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
I can see the appeal and challenge of designing something like that. On the other hand, I imagine a lot of players saying something along the lines of "If I wanted to experience real life..."
Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
True.
I think that unless the MC holds such a prominent position that what they do will effect all known civilized space that what they do should not.
Even then. I think NPC's having more agency independent of the player makes for a richer and more alive universe.
After all.... not all should be waiting for the MC to waltz in and solve their problems.
We all make ripples in life, and our ripples rebound strongest off those that stick around for them.
Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
While games and movies/television share many elements in common, they're fundamentally different animals. If the player can only watch as events unfold out of his control, that's not gameplay... it's watching a cinematic. The more cinematics you have in your game, the less it's a game and the more it's a movie.
I think it was Sid Meier who said that good gameplay is fundamentally about making interesting decisions. Sometimes the story is just a framework for the gameplay (which is local or tactical, while the story is strategic or global), but I think in the best games the story is created dynamically from the gameplay. This can be especially difficult in RPG's, but it can be done. I remember in the first Mass Effect how shocked I was that I was able to avoid what seemed like an inevitable climactic boss fight by persuading the would-be boss with an effective argument. When it works, it works well.
The first RPG campaign I ever ran was set in the universe of a story I was working on; the advantage of this was that it had a deep world to draw upon, but the disadvantage was that sometimes it felt a little bit like Monty Python's Life of Brian, in that the PC's were kind of following around a few steps behind NPC's who were the real protagonists of the story. This worked okay in the early stages in which the players were completely free to do whatever they wanted; it just happened by chance that they chose to go places where the main storyline was happening. This probably felt awesome to begin with, as they were able to choose sides in the conflict and take part in it. But as the storyline they were following moved towards its cataclysmic climax, events became more and more out of their control, and in the final decisive scenario, they were ultimately just footsoldiers in someone else's conflict. It ended with me essentially just telling them what happened, and I could tell they were disappointed. It might have made for a good conclusion to a story, but it made for a lousy RPG wrap-up.
I think it was Sid Meier who said that good gameplay is fundamentally about making interesting decisions. Sometimes the story is just a framework for the gameplay (which is local or tactical, while the story is strategic or global), but I think in the best games the story is created dynamically from the gameplay. This can be especially difficult in RPG's, but it can be done. I remember in the first Mass Effect how shocked I was that I was able to avoid what seemed like an inevitable climactic boss fight by persuading the would-be boss with an effective argument. When it works, it works well.
The first RPG campaign I ever ran was set in the universe of a story I was working on; the advantage of this was that it had a deep world to draw upon, but the disadvantage was that sometimes it felt a little bit like Monty Python's Life of Brian, in that the PC's were kind of following around a few steps behind NPC's who were the real protagonists of the story. This worked okay in the early stages in which the players were completely free to do whatever they wanted; it just happened by chance that they chose to go places where the main storyline was happening. This probably felt awesome to begin with, as they were able to choose sides in the conflict and take part in it. But as the storyline they were following moved towards its cataclysmic climax, events became more and more out of their control, and in the final decisive scenario, they were ultimately just footsoldiers in someone else's conflict. It ended with me essentially just telling them what happened, and I could tell they were disappointed. It might have made for a good conclusion to a story, but it made for a lousy RPG wrap-up.
Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
I get what you are saying.
Perhaps a solution is to limit the amount of wildcard NPC's to better balance out what a player will experience.
I find in life itself that the things I cannot control can alternately be pleasantly surprising (a gift) or a nightmare (someone who dies I care about unexpectedly).
I think the goal of a game should allow the player to decide how to reach it, but lets not kid ourselves.
In life itself and in stories (like your own), the ending is already known ahead of time.
It's how you get there and the relationships slong the way that matter most.
I will be honest and say that yeah, we do watch movies, read stories, and play games for suspense to see who wins or what will happen.
But honestly, if the characters are fascinating enough that I want to know what they will do next, knowing how it will end is no obstacle to enjoying the story.
Since how they got there is the unanswered question.... for the reader/player to enjoy yet.....
Perhaps a solution is to limit the amount of wildcard NPC's to better balance out what a player will experience.
I find in life itself that the things I cannot control can alternately be pleasantly surprising (a gift) or a nightmare (someone who dies I care about unexpectedly).
I think the goal of a game should allow the player to decide how to reach it, but lets not kid ourselves.
In life itself and in stories (like your own), the ending is already known ahead of time.
It's how you get there and the relationships slong the way that matter most.
I will be honest and say that yeah, we do watch movies, read stories, and play games for suspense to see who wins or what will happen.
But honestly, if the characters are fascinating enough that I want to know what they will do next, knowing how it will end is no obstacle to enjoying the story.
Since how they got there is the unanswered question.... for the reader/player to enjoy yet.....
Re: If You Made An Outsider-based Video Game How Would You Do It?
In Breath of the Wild they made some decisions about the story, leaving the exact relationships between the NPC's and the main character somewhat ambiguous, because they didn't want to restrict the player's freedom of choice and action. This particularly affected how they used cut scenes in the game (they were entirely optional).
