Page 199: MAD about stuff

[Krulle]

It's not a clear one-to-one match.

BTW:
I'd also link the Teidar and B.A.
Spiral (and Talon) as Murdoch (able to fly anything, although Fireblade seems to be also quite whacky and would fit the personality otherwise).
Hannibal, the strategy/planner would be impersonated Alex and Tempo.
Face: the male of course, the one for the ladies.
Angus: our walking Loroi lexicon (Beryl), with Alex as interface to request the information needed.


So, who's going to write the triple-cross-over fan-fic?

[RockB]

> Alex is probably Face

That was my thought, too. And the only one about the matter, otherwise no idea who would fit to which role best.

> It's not a clear one-to-one match.

Oh - that might indeed solve the fitting. But what about the Historian construct? I'd think it would play a not-so-small role.

Regarding the format: I'd also prefer it to continue the way it is. This comic doesn't have the speedy pace of many mangas, IMHO it benefits from pages with lots of details and color. Some mangas can get away without that.

(I'd just wish to get some life signs (that are easily to detect without special equipment ;P) from the Creator :^) if there is some serious and longer delay.)

Seriously about the page: They are discovered, no doubt. No way to run, no way to hide. One must hope that the Umiak even take prisoners - near the beginning of the comic, Alex was concerned about how the Umiak treat their allies, and the Loroi are enemies to the Umiak... not good at all. Alex chances of survival may be slightly higher but that's not much worth, he can be expected to get "interrogated" by a party that has no reason to make friends with Alex and/or humanity and thus has no reason to care much for his well-being.

In addition (maybe I have missed the info but anyway): Is the air in the Umiak ship even breathable for humans and Loroi?

[kyosanim]

The A-Team in Space

So who is who? Alex might be Hannibal and Red be the face, but who is gonna be Murdoch and B.A.?

I'm pretty sure Red would be BA. No one else seems to be as up fo' pitying the foo'
Murdoch would be one of the pilots, and Spiral seems appropriately wacky
Tempo seems to have overall command and seniority, so she's Hannibal
Alex is probably Face - he's the new alien in the neck of the woods everyone seems to be curious about, after all

Hannibal usually was the man with the plan, and Alex seems to be the only tactical genius of the group, regarding Red being BA, I can see that, as well as Spiral being Murdoch, after all she seems wackier than Talon, for Face, maybe Beril, after all she seems to have a knack for getting close and personal.

[Krulle]

> It's not a clear one-to-one match.

Oh - that might indeed solve the fitting. But what about the Historian construct? I'd think it would play a not-so-small role.

I forgot the Construct.
That one will be playing K.I.T.T.

[Mithramuse]

In addition (maybe I have missed the info but anyway): Is the air in the Umiak ship even breathable for humans and Loroi?

Insider reports that the Umiak homeworld has roughly 1/3 Earth's gravity, making it fairly Mars-like (though probably Mars of long ago with more atmosphere than today) so I'd suspect it would not be very breathable for anyone else. That said, with so many differently modified variants of Umiak, the ones engineered for higher gravity might require the heavier atmosphere and thus this would be maintained on board a ship.

So... I don't think we know? But perhaps we'll find out!

--Mithramuse

[CrimsonFALKE]

I wonder did the Umaki pick up all the radio transmission and begin actively looking for this shuttle?

[dragoongfa]

I wonder did the Umaki pick up all the radio transmission and begin actively looking for this shuttle?

Basic communication interception and deciphering should be par of the norm for both combatants. Depending on how their transmissions are done the Umiak could physically intercept the transmissions from Clearbrook (as their fleets should be in the general vicinity behind the shuttle). Then it's a matter of if the transmissions were encrypted and if the Umiak are able to break said encryption cipher in a quick enough manner. If we extrapolate from modern technologies then basic audio-visual communiques should be unsafe and easily crackable as they contain far too much data to be properly encrypted.

All in all, if the Umiak physically intercepted the transmissions to and from the shuttle then they should know that someone warranting an 'embassy' is aboard.

Even if they don't such shuttles are used by high ranking officers, the chances of them securing a VIP are good enough to warrant sending a ship and securing it.

[Mk_C]

If we extrapolate from modern technologies then basic audio-visual communiques should be unsafe and easily crackable as they contain far too much data to be properly encrypted.

If the shells can do that - then they could just as easily read Stillstorm's hand as she gives orders to her fleet over the same system, and sensibly speaking, so could Loroi towards Umiak comms. We don't see anything indicating either.

as their fleets should be in the general vicinity behind the shuttle

Nothing that Clearbrook or Gora Relay have transmitted towards Highland-7 contains any useful information about the shuttle itself.

basic audio-visual communiques should be unsafe and easily crackable as they contain far too much data to be properly encrypted

"Containing far too much data to be properly encrypted" is a non-statement when divorced from the capabilities of any given processing systems.

Talon made a huge point about how the shuttle needs to avoid any attention in order to stay hidden, and even then they are just hoping to be overlooked for long enough. Which in turn implies that the shells didn't really need anything more than a lucky or just somewhat more attentive glance in Highland's general direction in order to spot it. Our gang made a bet on bad odds, because that was all they had. It didn't turn out in their favor. They were ready for that anyway. Seems straightforward enough.

[Jagged]

If we extrapolate from modern technologies then basic audio-visual communiques should be unsafe and easily crackable as they contain far too much data to be properly encrypted.

I don't see why that should be the case. There is nothing special about video. In fact "pictures", especially moving picture can be compressed to a high degree and you can still get the meaning. Audio is similar.

If we extrapolate from current technology there is no reason not to assume that encryption will remain a thing. Assuming the opposing forces have similar tech levels, I think it would be reasonable to guss that they would be able to decipher any encrypted message but would normally take too long to be battlefield useful.

There are occasional scare stories about quantum computing making encryption impossible but they are just that, scare stories.

[PrivateHudson]

Sad, sad ending of the story. We all know since Starship Troopers that any captain worth the name is under standing orders to commit suicide (preferably by self destructing his ship to try and damage approaching enemy) in case of unavoidable capture. Expecting Epilogue page with a single BOOM! now.

[dragoongfa]

Nothing that Clearbrook or Gora Relay have transmitted towards Highland-7 contains any useful information about the shuttle itself.

Page 131, panel 2 : Look around you Arrir. The only priority right now is the response to this offensive. Extinct nations have no need for embassies.

I would say that this is interesting enough to warrant digging.

Talon made a huge point about how the shuttle needs to avoid any attention in order to stay hidden, and even then they are just hoping to be overlooked for long enough. Which in turn implies that the shells didn't really need anything more than a lucky or just somewhat more attentive glance in Highland's general direction in order to spot it. Our gang made a bet on bad odds, because that was all they had. It didn't turn out in their favor. They were ready for that anyway. Seems straightforward enough.

I don't disagree about Talon's actions, I merely point out that the Umiak may have had ample reasons to actually spend time and resources to look for the shuttle which brought the result of page 199.

EDIT: This is Patreon spoiler and I am working with this in mind:

SpoilerShow

Page 201, panel 2: It is not clear why the enemy has not already destroyed us.

Which leads me to believe that the Umiak have a shoot and destroy policy for anything pertaining the Loroi that doesn't warrant a different approach. If the Umiak send a Heavy vessel in the middle of a warzone to do the job of a medium/light then they should have ample reason to do so. You don't send a Heavy Cruiser/Battleship to do the job of a Frigate/Destroyer unless you have reason to invest the resources the far more important warship brings to the fold (not just in terms of more personnel to do the job but also in terms of interrogation and holding facilities).

Now if this is due to an intercepted transmission or if the Umiak suspect a high ranking officer being aboard due to the nature of the shuttle I leave it up to each and everyone's imagination.

I don't see why that should be the case. There is nothing special about video. In fact "pictures", especially moving picture can be compressed to a high degree and you can still get the meaning. Audio is similar.

If we extrapolate from current technology there is no reason not to assume that encryption will remain a thing. Assuming the opposing forces have similar tech levels, I think it would be reasonable to guess that they would be able to decipher any encrypted message but would normally take too long to be battlefield useful.

There are occasional scare stories about quantum computing making encryption impossible but they are just that, scare stories.

The timeframe involved for cracking the encryption should be at least 4 to 8 hours depending on how long Alex slept.

[GeoModder]

Chances are the Umiak came to investigate anyway as a standing order.
The Highland was observed in flight towards Gora Relay. Same thing for Clearbrook, but on route through the Gora jump zone. Communication chatter, whether or not decrypted, between Gora Relay and Clearbrook towards the Highland was logged. As far as we know no such communication was logged between the couriers flushed from Gora Relay.
So the two Umiak divisions tasked with suppressing Gora jump zone were just tying up loose ends.

[CrimsonFALKE]

I wonder did the Umaki pick up all the radio transmission and begin actively looking for this shuttle?

Basic communication interception and deciphering should be par of the norm for both combatants. Depending on how their transmissions are done the Umiak could physically intercept the transmissions from Clearbrook (as their fleets should be in the general vicinity behind the shuttle). Then it's a matter of if the transmissions were encrypted and if the Umiak are able to break said encryption cipher in a quick enough manner. If we extrapolate from modern technologies then basic audio-visual communiques should be unsafe and easily crackable as they contain far too much data to be properly encrypted.

All in all, if the Umiak physically intercepted the transmissions to and from the shuttle then they should know that someone warranting an 'embassy' is aboard.

Even if they don't such shuttles are used by high ranking officers, the chances of them securing a VIP are good enough to warrant sending a ship and securing it.

Well that's going to be bad news

[Arioch]

It would be absurd to think that the Loroi are exchanging messages in the clear during a battle. Of course they are encrypted. There's no way the Loroi would use inter-ship communications the way they have been if they had any notion that the enemy could read them.

Enemy detectors can probably tell if two ships are talking to each other, but if they could read the content, that would give them an enormous advantage. Either the Umiak would have won already, or the Loroi would have stopped sending such messages.

[dragoongfa]

It would be absurd to think that the Loroi are exchanging messages in the clear during a battle. Of course they are encrypted. There's no way the Loroi would use inter-ship communications the way they have been if they had any notion that the enemy could read them.

Enemy detectors can probably tell if two ships are talking to each other, but if they could read the content, that would give them an enormous advantage. Either the Umiak would have won already, or the Loroi would have stopped sending such messages.

This is not a comment about the situation regarding the current predicament of the shuttle but the war effort at large:

The issue is that all encryption can be cracked, it takes time and effort but it can be cracked. The encryption itself allows to hide orders and movements for as long as possible and all militaries shift their encryption methods in scheduled intervals in order to facilitate this.

I am not saying that the Umiak have been able to read Loroi messages at will, with the right methodology and equipment the Loroi could easily make it so that their communiques could not be read for weeks/months/years after they were intercepted. With the right motivation and focus the Umiak will eventually break the various ciphers, thus rendering their contents known; if this is quick enough to be useful in a running battle or even the campaign at large, that's doubtful; would they get useful intel out of the cracked messages?

Definitely; just the look on the outdated messages would reveal a lot about the running doctrine, status of commanding officers and many more myriad tidbits that could be of use for the war effort at large.

I expect the Loroi to have invested heavily in doing the same as well; if only because electronic communications are a blind side to their telepathy and as thus would create a desire to overcompensate accordingly if only to bring the information derived from system interception and deciphering on par with their naturally accurate telepathic forms of intelligence gathering.

[jbay]

There are provably uncrackable encryption techniques. So if the Umiak have cracked the Loroi communications it basically means that a spy deliberately slipped a backdoor into their encryption, in which case as Arioch says, they've already lost. Or if, in the Outsider universe, encryption were known to be crackable (because say, P=NP or something), then as Arioch says, both sides would know better than to communicate at all.

[Arioch]

The issue is that all encryption can be cracked, it takes time and effort but it can be cracked.

Unless computer technology is increasing exponentially over a period of a few years (which I don't think it will be at this tech level), computer cryptography should be able to create keys which are essentially uncrackable by computers of the same tech level within a practical time period (like the current age of the universe). This isn't a case like Enigma or JN25 in World War II where you can watch traffic and try to reverse-engineer the cypher, since the participants can be using a different key (or even a completely different encryption scheme) in every message.

Quantum computers will soon make current public key prime factor cryptography insecure, but there are newer cryptography schemes that don't share this vulnerability. And military systems probably aren't going to use public keys anyway. Also, if the enemy is using tight beam comm systems, you might get enough EM splash to know that they're talking, but you're probably not going to pick up much of the content of the transmission to begin with. Also, there's no global frequency or global network to monitor; the comm traffic in every star system is essentially confined to that system.

I'm not saying that "quantum leaps" (pardon the pun) in decryption aren't possible, but this would be a major story point akin to telepathic immunity or the development of a super-weapon. This war has been going on for 25 years. If it was an accepted reality that all encryption could be cracked, I don't think it would make sense for Loroi captains to be frivolously handing the enemy extra hacking materials by making jokes over the comm.

[ESP]

The Umiak should be able to guess there's something interesting on Highland-7 without breaking any codes.

The Stray (Kikitik-27) knows that Strike Group 51 encountered the remains of an unidentified vessel at Naam. It suspects SG 51 was able to recover some artifacts. It can guess that SG 51 will transfer anything recovered to the interior of the Union the next time it resupplies.

The Stray suspects the unidentified vessel is important; it lost several ships trying to secure the wreckage. If it can follow up on the Naam incident, it will.

The Stray proceeds to Leido Crossroads (this was always part of the plan). When it gets there, it exchanges sensor logs with the Umiak already in the system. It reviews the logs. It notices an aborted rendezvous between a frigate and a shuttle; the shuttle appears to have come from SG 51 and the frigate seems to have been headed for the interior. The Stray assumes any artifacts are aboard the shuttle, so it details some ships to find the remains of the shuttle and salvage whatever they can.

On page 142, Talon said there was no reason for anyone to look for them. She was wrong.

[Mjolnir]

It's plausibly worthwhile for ships not in close combat (or attempting to imitate pieces of debris) to keep continuous links active, carrying low priority telemetry or even random data if there's nothing more useful to send, just so the enemy wouldn't be able to tell when they're sending messages. This makes it so the timing or length of communications can't give information away otherwise, and if an adversary does possess code-breaking capabilities, they can't apply them just to the communications of interest.

[dragoongfa]

Unless computer technology is increasing exponentially over a period of a few years (which I don't think it will be at this tech level), computer cryptography should be able to create keys which are essentially uncrackable by computers of the same tech level within a practical time period (like the current age of the universe). This isn't a case like Enigma or JN25 in World War II where you can watch traffic and try to reverse-engineer the cypher, since the participants can be using a different key (or even a completely different encryption scheme) in every message.

Interesting thing about the Enigma and how it was cracked (especially the naval variant), the British had to both leapfrog ahead and invent the first computer to run the necessary calculations but actually had some necessary help from the Germans in the way they demanded constant reports from their Uboats with a specific structured system while also making glaring communication mistakes due to their belief that the cipher was uncrackable.

Quantum computers will soon make current public key prime factor cryptography insecure, but there are newer cryptography schemes that don't share this vulnerability. And military systems probably aren't going to use public keys anyway. Also, if the enemy is using tight beam comm systems, you might get enough EM splash to know that they're talking, but you're probably not going to pick up much of the content of the transmission to begin with. Also, there's no global frequency or global network to monitor; the comm traffic in every star system is essentially confined to that system.

I'm not saying that "quantum leaps" (pardon the pun) in decryption aren't possible, but this would be a major story point akin to telepathic immunity or the development of a super-weapon. This war has been going on for 25 years. If it was an accepted reality that all encryption could be cracked, I don't think it would make sense for Loroi captains to be frivolously handing the enemy extra hacking materials by making jokes over the comm.

I wonder what the Historians think about this, a full tech level ahead with plenty of bored A.I.s wanting to show the fleshies what's up in cybersecurity.

I doubt that the Loroi aren't under strict orders to be extremely vigilant when Historians in any form are prowling around.