Page 194: partial functionality

[Mk_C]

What information can we assume that the pocket historian have on humanity and Alex?

It speaks stoopid gewd Hanglish. Either it says the truth and really did pilfer all the way through Bella's databanks and thus knows way too much for comfort, or it had an alternative source of info - meaning it also knows way too much for comfort and we don't know where it all came from.

... Does the Historian have an *actual* sense of humor?

It imitates having one well enough to the point where it's meaningless to make a distinction.

Also, is it just me or have Alex kept the Loroi in the dark regarding how love rank ensign is? During the attack on the Bellarmine, he said that he was "not on the bridge" (page 60) as if he could usually be expected to be there (and not running repair works). Can we assume that Alex original rank is information which the Historian have, and the Loroi does not?

They could easily surmise that he appears younger than any cadaver they've recovered. They know they are not dealing with a recognized illustrious admiral - but for any purpose, it doesn't matter much. So far as Loroi don't see Alex as a shell ploy, the gravity of Jardin's position right now comes from him currently being the only living link for contact between those civilizations. He could just as well be a half-mad hobo, and that would not impact his current importance significantly.

[ESP]

Also, is it just me or have Alex kept the Loroi in the dark regarding how love rank ensign is? During the attack on the Bellarmine, he said that he was "not on the bridge" (page 60) as if he could usually be expected to be there (and not running repair works). Can we assume that Alex original rank is information which the Historian have, and the Loroi does not?

Regarding Alex and the bridge - check out page five, panel three.

I don't think Alex is eager to draw attention to his low rank, but Tempo was mostly responsible for granting Alex his status as captain and ambassador. She needed very little convincing. I think she knew Alex had assumed command of Bellarmine after it became space junk.

[Dan Wyatt]

I have an old phone. I took the sim out and use it as a little tablet. Every time i turn it on, i have to remove up to 4 programs that somehow installed themselves since last time. So apparently here in our pre stellar age, there are already examples of powerdown intrusion. None of them have warned me against getting too cozy with cute aliens, though.

Root your phone.

[Dan Wyatt]

Is alex about to make a stupid move and reveal more than he wants to because he feels a kinship with another pilot?

Worth it!

[Dan Wyatt]

hi hi

Construct: "Don't trust them."
Alex: "Got anything to back that up?"
Construct: "Um... trust me?"

Well, Tempo did already suggest that the various members of the Union have different interests, and would want to use Alex for their own interests.

NEVER TRUST THE XENOS!!

[Dan Wyatt]

Also, is it just me or have Alex kept the Loroi in the dark regarding how love rank ensign is? During the attack on the Bellarmine, he said that he was "not on the bridge" (page 60) as if he could usually be expected to be there (and not running repair works). Can we assume that Alex original rank is information which the Historian have, and the Loroi does not?

Everyone else took a stroll to the space, so he automatically got PROMOTIONS!!
And now he is Ex-Captain of Bellamarine.

[dragoongfa]

Also, is it just me or have Alex kept the Loroi in the dark regarding how love rank ensign is? During the attack on the Bellarmine, he said that he was "not on the bridge" (page 60) as if he could usually be expected to be there (and not running repair works). Can we assume that Alex original rank is information which the Historian have, and the Loroi does not?

Everyone else took a stroll to the space, so he automatically got PROMOTIONS!!
And now he is Ex-Captain of Bellamarine.

Ensign is the lowest officer rank which means that Alex is a commissioned officer of the TCA. As an officer he could be given certain tasks on the bridge, station monitoring and all that. In the prologue it is mentioned that Alex and Ellen were normally slated for bridge duty but they pissed someone off to be sent down to damage control, probably a prank gone wrong. It's also mentioned that they are seen as the 'lowest plebs' of the ship which could mean a lot of things, from being the greenhorns among a tight knit crew who knew each other well, to the entirety of the crew being made entirely out of commissioned officers for this mission, thus rendering both of them as the most junior officers aboard by date of commission.

Normally the majority of the crew on a ship is made out of enlisted personnel tasked with the simple day to day running of the ship. High ranking enlisted (also known as non commanding officers or NCO) are also extensively trained to handle complex equipment and lead sections of the ship. If there was an enlisted survivor from Bellarmine then Alex would be the officer in charge by default despite his junior rank.

A commission binds both the officer and the state they represent as he legally represents said state in all matters pertaining their position, while legally speaking any lawful orders given by an officer to their subordinate are to be obeyed as if they were given by the government itself. The whole military structure of modern armies rests on this simple fact, that the officers giving the orders are in fact commissioned by the state to represent the country's interests and those disobeying these orders are to be prosecuted as criminals.

[Revv]

Had to make an account to comment on this chapter.

I accept that Alex is as qualified as any human in the setting, if not more so (if only for his willingness to defy authority and also to keep things close to his chest), but I hope that these latest messages from the historian construct are setting off alarms for him. He should be aware at this point there's quite a bit of politicking going on between the Loroi and their "allies" and as such should treat these messages with a certain level of of salt. The amount is of course determined by the individual, but personally I would be highly suspect at this point.

The construct was apparently sent with only a message and a warning, with very little in between. Of course, once he's closer to better infrastructure, then he's able to be more helpful. Until then, he's not at liberty to speculate, event though they're supposedly hyper-intelligent beings. Granted, it could be that I'm assuming more than Alex is aware of Historians at this point, but I'd have to go through the story again to be fully correct. Regardless, anyone who withholds pretty much all useful + contextual information with a promise to deliver it once they are in full control of the situation should be treated with the same amount of respect they are giving to you. Alex is not being given much, if any level of respect by the Historian construct; I should hope he is slower to divulge anything of importance to it than he has been to the Loroi, even if its message of being cautious of the Loroi is on solid footing.

TLDR: This construct is an asshole who is trying to convince Alex that it's able to learn his language, understand human humor, hack his tablet (which I'm assuming has some decent, if not state of the art security measures on it) and that it's simultaneously unable to specify on straightforward follow-up questions to a person it finds beneath it in intelligence. The construct is probably working off the fact that Alex has very little alone time currently, because otherwise I'm pretty sure Alex would press it much harder on its caginess.

[Arioch]

Scout Corps ships like Bellarmine don't have "enlisted" crew members. The Scout Corps is more like NASA than it is like the Navy; its missions are long range deep space operations that stretch ship endurance to the limit, and so the crews must be as small as possible. Every member of the crew has at least one degree (and often multiple advanced degrees), and each must fill multiple roles; there is no room for dedicated cooks or janitors. And yes, that means there are officers cleaning the toilets and mopping the floors... much like on the current ISS. The Scout Corps will also have a variety of "civilian" positions, in administration and various engineering and support roles on the ground and in stations; these are not certified flight officers, but they are also not "enlisted" personnel.

Alex and Ellen are the newest and the most junior members of the crew; ensign second-class is the lowest flight officer rank in the Scout Corps. Alex is a pilot, and one of his duties was to stand a watch at helm on the bridge... before he was temporarily reassigned to maintenance and damage control. (Meaning when there wasn't a damage control exercise going on, which was most of the time, he was cleaning toilets or mopping floors.) Alex hasn't been directly asked what his position was, and so he hasn't lied about it, but since he now has the responsibilities of Bellarmine's commander, and as current sole member of the diplomatic mission, it would be of no benefit to volunteer information about how low his rank is.

Tempo correctly assumes that Alex as sole survivor is now the de facto senior officer of his unit, and so she hasn't inquired about Alex's rank before the incident, both because it is now irrelevant, and because she is a diplomat. But that doesn't mean she isn't paying attention to what he says.

Alex is not being given much, if any level of respect by the Historian construct; I should hope he is slower to divulge anything of importance to it than he has been to the Loroi, even if its message of being cautious of the Loroi is on solid footing.

Sound advice... though it's worth pointing out that the construct hasn't asked him any questions.

[CrimsonFALKE]

Okay given the conversations happening is it even possible the Historians could have a weapon system this far out? Also it is right the lorori show a lot of racist traits with their telepathy.

[Zorg56]

Scout Corps ships like Bellarmine don't have "enlisted" crew members. The Scout Corps is more like NASA than it is like the Navy; s missionsit are long range deep space operations that stretch ship endurance to the limit, and so the crews must be as small as possible. Every member of the crew has at least one degree (and often multiple advanced degrees), and each must fill multiple roles; there is no room for dedicated cooks or janitors. And yes, that means there are officers cleaning the toilets and mopping the floors... much like on the current ISS.

This is actually quite strange in my opinion, why someone will choose one of the smaller ship classes as scout with its questionable endurance and limited cargo capacity?
The bigger you get, the better it is for scout ship like this, you use less space for food and other supplies in % and your systems can be more effective+ you can take more equipment with you that you might need.
Spanish Galleons were massive compared to most other ships specifically for that reason.

construct hasn't asked him any questions.

Does he need to?
From Alex point of view it is certain at this point that this thing broke into every surviving computer system on bellarmine wreck + all surviving electronic devices including his tablet.
The thing even openly stated that it can do that without any issues.

[raistlin34]

Okay given the conversations happening is it even possible the Historians could have a weapon system this far out? Also it is right the lorori show a lot of racist traits with their telepathy.

Is not as much racism as a consequence of their telepath culture. Loroi don't (most simply cannot) hide anything from each other, but the rest of species lie constantly, which is perceived both as an insult and a moral flaw.
And now there is that weird non-Loroi pink male whose lies cannot be checked the usual way because of his ridiculously strong Lotai.
If you see a vault protected by a 25-ton ultra-resistant door, your first thought is "whatever is inside must be very valuable."

[boldilocks]

Okay given the conversations happening is it even possible the Historians could have a weapon system this far out? Also it is right the lorori show a lot of racist traits with their telepathy.

Is not as much racism as a consequence of their telepath culture. Loroi don't (most simply cannot) hide anything from each other, but the rest of species lie constantly, which is perceived both as an insult and a moral flaw.
And now there is that weird non-Loroi pink male whose lies cannot be checked the usual way because of his ridiculously strong Lotai.
If you see a vault protected by a 25-ton ultra-resistant door, your first thought is "whatever is inside must be very valuable."

Also, it would be speciesm. And as I recall, the Loroi do in fact possess a sense of superiority over other species, and my understanding is that this doesn't necessarily stem from their telepathy, but from them having a perceived heritage of a respected precursor species.

If you're from a telepathic species and you find someone who looks like your species but he's discolored and will have a shorter lifespan and has as much telepathic ability as a rock, your first thought is probably going to be "oh no, this one was born mentally retarded". If they didn't have the other human corpses to compare to he'd obviously have stunted ears and a severe blood disease of some sort.

[gaerzi]

Historian software design committee meeting:
"If we have to hijack a primitive computing device that lacks the processing and memory abilities to fully host one of our personality constructs, what corners could we cut?"
"Well, the two heaviest components are the political information database and the sass module, so it's likely one of the two would have to be sacrificed."
"Okay, ditch the database. The sass module is critical!"

[Zorg56]

Historian software design committee meeting:
"If we have to hijack a primitive computing device that lacks the processing and memory abilities to fully host one of our personality constructs, what corners could we cut?"
"Well, the two heaviest components are the political information database and the sass module, so it's likely one of the two would have to be sacrificed."
"Okay, ditch the database. The sass module is critical!"

It is very unlikely that historian on the tablet itself, 90% sure it just transmits data to it from the bucket, there is a possibility that only real reason why historian got to the tablet in the first place is only to confirm that Alex is onboard.

[Rasayana]

Also, it would be speciesm. And as I recall, the Loroi do in fact possess a sense of superiority over other species, and my understanding is that this doesn't necessarily stem from their telepathy, but from them having a perceived heritage of a respected precursor species.

If you're from a telepathic species and you find someone who looks like your species but he's discolored and will have a shorter lifespan and has as much telepathic ability as a rock, your first thought is probably going to be "oh no, this one was born mentally retarded". If they didn't have the other human corpses to compare to he'd obviously have stunted ears and a severe blood disease of some sort.

Isn't the "heritage from a respected precursor species" a source for contention among the Loroi and some of their closest allies? The Loroi, Barsam, and Neridi, are biologically Soia-liron. "In particular, Barsam missionaries are devoted to uplifting their Nibiren brothers," which are not Soia-liron.

The Nibiren is a pre-industrial, Stone Age hunter-gatherer culture, which the Barsam resembles although they are not at all genetically related. The Loroi do not consider the Nibiren sophisticated enough for self-governance, and they are technically classified as an occupied population.

https://well-of-souls.com/outsider/union_races.html

I don't know much about the Barsam religion, but to me it seems like they take a special interest in the precursor race which the Soia Empire used as templates for new designed species. They refers to the Neridi as their brothers. To me it's unsure if they would refer to any intelligent life form as "brother" but Rigai Mozin, captain of Prophet's Reason, did refer to Alex as "little brother".

While we might be concerned about what would seem like speciesism by our standard, there seems to be some conflict in the alliance regarding how to view precursor species vis-à-vis the genetically more closely related Soia-liron. The Loroi seems to judge a species on their level of sophistication, technological advancement, and capacity to project influence. The Barsam seem to make judgements based on their religious doctrines.

When Rigai Mozin called the Loroi liars (page 65), I interpret that to relate to to the fact that the Barsam have a clear similarity to the Nibiren, while the Loroi have up to that point not seem to have a corresponding precursor. So what is the "lie" which the Loroi have been spouting? Maybe that they are a completely original creation, possibly direct descendant from the Soia-empire? Maybe the Loroi claim that they therefor is set above other species; or at least that they set above primitive precursors which to the Barsams view are "brothers".

Maybe Loroi view the Barsams as speciesists, while the Barsam in turn view the Loroi as speciesists?

[icekatze]

hi hi

Now that I think about it, the Historian Construct made a potentially critical error in their reasoning. Saying:
• Do not accelerate the inevitable through unnecessary exhibition.
• The Loroi do not trust anyone that they cannot read with their telepathy.

On the surface, both of those statements seem to support the recommendation that Alex stop cooperating. However, Alex's mission is to establish contact and cooperation at pretty much any cost. "The Loroi do not trust anyone that they cannot read with their telepathy," may end up being a motivation for Alex to cooperate more with Beryl's attempts to establish telepathic contact, not less.

[Rasayana]

...

If you're from a telepathic species and you find someone who looks like your species but he's discolored and will have a shorter lifespan and has as much telepathic ability as a rock, your first thought is probably going to be "oh no, this one was born mentally retarded". If they didn't have the other human corpses to compare to he'd obviously have stunted ears and a severe blood disease of some sort.

[Krulle]

Sorry if you have all gone over this in the past, especially in forum post referring to the the first time Alex dealt with the pocket historian (approx pages 154-158).

What information can we assume that the pocket historian have on humanity and Alex?
The location of earth? A (more or less plausible) confirmation on a peaceful human mission?

Files on Alex, such as letters of recommendation for and against him? If so, is the pocket Historian making assumptions as to what possible social pitfalls Alex should be warned of based on 1) human nature, 2) Alex documented tendencies towards impudence, and/or 3) more general concerns of which different races tend to lose sight of their own interests?

Even if the Historian seems to adapt a human sense of humor, the Historian doesn't itself seem like a very humorous being. Any joke, or insult, directed at Alex doesn't quite seem like something done for the amusement of the Historian. I think it more seems like cold calculated manipulation. As for point 3 above, the Historian might very well be familiar with how friendly intentions can turn to betrayal, as the Loroi have experienced with "neutrals".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qump1X6OrEc&t=15s
It's true as it might be that friendly smiles, and lip-service, is not wise to put your faith in. Story-wise though, when Alex appeal to his word of honor (and we know it's true), it attests to an irrational aspect of human nature which is of some importance of how we make decisions. I think that the Historian might be bad at gauging how important it may be for humans, and Loroi, to act in an honorable way or seeing that someone else does so.

... Does the Historian have an *actual* sense of humor?

Also, is it just me or have Alex kept the Loroi in the dark regarding how lovew rank ensign is? During the attack on the Bellarmine, he said that he was "not on the bridge" (page 60) as if he could usually be expected to be there (and not running repair works). Can we assume that Alex original rank is information which the Historian have, and the Loroi does not?

According to the construct, it has been in Alex's ship's systems. I understand that as "We Historians have scanned the database of the Bellarmine, and know all that was stored inside it." (The pocketHistorian not necessarily too - itmay not have been transferred as knowledge, also because the pad is much smaller than the Bellarmine's systems were.)
What I am nor sure about is, what the Historians actually have done.
WHEN did they enter the Bellarmine's system?
Once they were in the system aboard the Prophet's Reason and had access to the damaged Bellarmine, or have they been infiltrating most other races anyway, and have been aboard the Orgus refugee ship(s), and after that aboard most systems of Humaniti, and aboard the Bellarmine and all other scoutships of the mission?


The minimum knowledge the Historians (not per se the PocketHistorian version) must have, is everything the Bellarmine knew (what has not been destroyed), so likely privileges of crew members, and as part of that also the low rank the Guardian of the Garden has.

[GeoModder]

Alex is not being given much, if any level of respect by the Historian construct; I should hope he is slower to divulge anything of importance to it than he has been to the Loroi, even if its message of being cautious of the Loroi is on solid footing.

Sound advice... though it's worth pointing out that the construct hasn't asked him any questions.

Does the Pocket Construct even need to ask questions? It probably already has quite a bit info regarding Humanity, courtesy of the Historian Construct aboard prophet's Reason.