Concept Fanart of Future Terran Ship Designs

[Sprawl63]

The Loroi launched their first artificial satellite in 475CE, meaning it took 1685 years to reach current levels compared to humanities 203 at the launch of Sputnik.

The Terrans are currently at the same tech level the Loroi were at about 800 years ago*, meaning 900 years of Loroi advancement in 200 Terran years.

So the Terrans should be naively** expected to reach technological parity with the Loroi in 150 - 200 years without outside assistance.

With Loroi assistance 30 - 40 years seems reasonable.

The thing is - until they get round to comparing technological development timelines*** - the Loroi may assume - having seen the "low tech" nature of human technology - that the Terrans are too far behind to be currently worth the resources presumed to be required to accelerate their tech level to a usable level.

* Arioch forum quote I am not in a position to look up about the Loroi using weapons similar to the Terrans during the Splinter Wars 1323-1402.
** Naively assumes linear technological development. A more realistic exponential-ish curve could give the 100 year estimate commonly referenced on the forums.
*** The Loroi will be in for a big surprise when discover that the Terrans developed so fast without access to Soia artifacts.

If I were the Loroi, I'd be very alarmed that a species that was naturally immune to Loroi telepathy and farseeing was advancing so quickly. After the sense of superiority they possessed prior to the war was so soundly crushed, I wouldn't be taking any chances with other possible threats.

[Ktrain]

If I were the Loroi, I'd be very alarmed that a species that was naturally immune to Loroi telepathy and farseeing was advancing so quickly. After the sense of superiority they possessed prior to the war was so soundly crushed, I wouldn't be taking any chances with other possible threats.

Question: How long would it take the Loroi to realize this Terran trait?
More important question: How much would Loroi value the potential of human hairdresser and masseuses ?

[Sprawl63]

If I were the Loroi, I'd be very alarmed that a species that was naturally immune to Loroi telepathy and farseeing was advancing so quickly. After the sense of superiority they possessed prior to the war was so soundly crushed, I wouldn't be taking any chances with other possible threats.

Question: How long would it take the Loroi to realize this Terran trait?
More important question: How much would Loroi value the potential of human hairdresser and masseuses ?

Seeing as they have billions of girls sitting around with nothing better to do then style each others hair when they aren't fighting?

Not much, I'd say.

[fredgiblet]

Question: How long would it take the Loroi to realize this Terran trait?

Probably not too long, questions about tech development and historical milestones are likely to be a part of the standard first contact questionarre that Tempo will likely sit Alex down for later.

"What is your state-of-the-art for X?"
"How long have you been space-faring?"
"..."
"How long is a 'year' again?"
"..."
"How long have you been space-faring again?"
"..."
"..."
"Are you sure?"

[icekatze]

hi hi

It is to humanity's credit that they developed FTL travel prior to contact with the Orgus. Them's some very fancy bragging rights I imagine.

I've mused about this a few times in the past, but I think that the Loroi ruling class will not like Terran philosophy one bit. On top of the fact that our mere existence threatens deeply held beliefs, our moral and social philosophies would likely be viewed as dangerously seditious or unreliable. There's volumes of literature on the topic of how the Loroi's style of government is evil, for starters.

I suspect that the first order of business is going to be upgrading humanity's rocket motors. They're using fusion last I checked, while the Loroi are using exotic annihilations. One of the biggest advantages humanity could theoretically give the Loroi -in my opinion- is the ability to use Terran space as a refueling station. Once Terran's start producing this exotic fuel, it follows that we would start making engines that use it as well.

[Nemo]

There'd also be scads of seditious Terran literature expounding on the evils of the Terran form of government too. If anything it'll be self affirming that their authoritarian government produces order more efficiently. I imagine for a militaristic society, order ranks highly.

[LegioCI]

I was actually just reading insider article regarding Terran pirates and I think they could be very useful in procuring technology for humanity.

There's a number of blurbs in "Insider" about Terran pirates. Here we have a group of captains, crews and starships who's lives depend on avoiding detection and who's livelihoods depend on taking potentially hostile spacecraft intact. Pirates are also used to living and operating outside of the normal social and technological support structure.

Now, how we used such a resource really depends on how much technology the Loroi are willing to share, and how fast we can close the technological gap with the technology we have. If the Loroi are willing to supply us with or we are able to develop the necessary technology, then we could implement a new Privateering industry, with pirates being payed to sneak into enemy territory and do what they do best; escape notice, and pillage undefended supply lines. The TCA could pay a premium on any intact ships or technology.

The dark side is if we aren't able to compete technologically and the Loroi refuse to help, perhaps preferring to keep us in a position of dependence. (If we're kept dependent on the Loroi to assure our species survival, we would likely be more willing to do whatever it takes to help them win.) In this case, we get to see the bastard-side of humanity; Pirates could be inserted into Loroi territory, perhaps carried aboard legitimate supply shipments. (If we aren't to be used in a military capacity, than we'll likely be used industrially, sending valuable ores and basic manufactured goods.) From within Loroi space they could use their god-given talents to board and hijack rear-line Loroi warships. Even if we assume that these ships will be the oldest and least capable in the Loroi fleet, they would be decades ahead of what humanity has. Even if these pirates are captured or identified, the TCA has almost perfect deniability. This combined with humanity's inherent resistance to psychic probing means that it would be very difficult for any captured pirates to give up any incriminating evidence that couldn't immediately be explained as "pirates lying to try to save their own skins."

[bunnyboy]

Terran pirates

Not good, because of Joint liability.

When you are angry, you don't care if it is wrong adress.
Saddam Hussein has nothing to do with Al Qaida or 911, but he still paid the bill.

[Arioch]

The chief problem with piracy (or commerce raiding) is access to enemy territory. It's possible, due to the appearance of a previously unknown nation (Humanity), that there are some new access routes into Umiak or Loroi territory that are currently unguarded. However, the moment that Terran raiders start appearing via these routes, they will certainly be closed. If you have access to undefended territory and shipping lanes, that probably means you have access to enemy population and production centers, and that means that you can probably do a lot more damage than disrupting enemy commerce.

The second problem is supply. Outsider warships have relatively limited operational ranges, and so must operate from a logistical base; the same will be true of privateers. The moment such raids appear, the target empire is going to start looking for the "hidden rebel base," and it shouldn't take long to find. Unless the raiders have learned some way to obtain supplies from the enemy, which brings us to the third problem:

Commerce raiding just means destroying enemy shipping, and that's theoretically possible if you have access and supply. Piracy or privateering implies siezing such shipping and their cargoes intact, by encouraging them to surrender or boarding and taking the vessels. Actually taking ships intact, however, is going to be very difficult. It's very difficult to board an enemy vessel, and expecting surrender is pretty much out of the question; any Loroi or Umiak vessel you trap is under military control and will never surrender, and will most likely self-destruct rather than be boarded. So if you are expecting to sieze any supplies from your prey, either to pay the pirates or to provide your raiders with supply, this is going to be a very problematic proposition.

[Zakharra]

Not to mention that currently, any Loroi or Umiak ship can outrun and outgun any human pirate. Pirates don't have the best equipment, not do they have the best weapons. Any self respecting Loroi or Umiak ship will just blow the pirate away.

Also there is the sensor data. I'd think both warring empires have the ability to send off drones or have black boxes that can hold the recent sensor data the ship has. The moment the first human pirate was confirmed by the Loroi would see a huge push by some to wipe out humanity since their allies have now 'betrayed' them.

[LegioCI]

While blow-back is possible, it can be nullified by the fact that these raiders are officially still considered criminals by the TCA. If a Pirate captain screws up and gets himself killed/captured than it's a simple matter of showing the Loroi that the captain has a history of piracy in Terran space and we have no idea how that crew was able to get that far out, but pirates are known to be extremely resourceful. ("We'll open an investigation. In the meantime we propose a joint Terran-Loroi border security operation to make sure that criminal elements are contained and dealt with in Terran space. Though, if our security forces had more advanced engines and weapon systems we would be far better equipped to make sure this problem never happens again, allowing you to use your vessels for more pressing operations.")

From a tactical standpoint, I think any pirate worth his salt ("Vacuum?") would realize that straight up attacking a Loroi or Umiak ship would be fruitless at best, suicide at worst, and they would likely have a whole playbook of operations to get "customers". For example, a pirate sets up in Umiak space and broadcasts a Terran distress signal. What self-respecting Umiak wouldn't jump at the ability to take a helpless Terran ship intact with any surviving crew? That gets the Umiak ship close and docked. From there it's just a boarding operation that pirate crews are likely already very good at. (Disperse through target ship. Secure vital areas. Transfer useful goods. Disable the target ship and get away clean.)

Of course, the chances of success are quite small, but piracy is no kid's game and for the purposes of the TCA (Acquisition of alien technology in order to get us into a position where self-defense is feasible and perhaps get ourselves a better seat at the table that is the Loroi Alliance.) the Pirates only need one big score to give us samples of technology that could put us decades ahead of where we are right now.

[bunnyboy]

And any human pirate activity is proof that etheir TCA (= humans) are lying of their partisan activity or they are inept to handle even their home turf.
Either way the creat imperium is needed to come and take control of everything in name of the galactic peace and democracy.

[Cy83r]

"No pirate worth his dust" maybe?

Don't Umiak get cybernetically enhanced? As in, these hypothetical pirates might be facing down some really nasty combat cyborgs and maybe even straight up robots modeled after a species whose first reaction to a TCA hailing signal may have been to eradicate the ship wholesale.

And even thinking of allowing Loroi to be the victims of human pirates even once might be... a very bad idea.

But I could see marine troopships disguised as adrift merchant vessels scattered thinly across the Steppes at least making a few contacts in their boarding operations if not successful captures.

[Trantor]

Are we talking about pirates, or about corsairs? I doubt that there will be anything like pirates in a future space-fairing high-tech environment. Smugglers, perhaps. But no pirates.
And i´m not sure if a concept of corsairs or raiders, like the german HSK in WW2, will work out, too. Maybe - maybe! - once, the first time, because of surprise.
After that n0 more.

[Zakharra]

Pirates as people think of them, sea borne raiders put in a space setting is not practical. Spaceships need a LOT of maintenance and a base for fuel, munitions,food and repairs. Commerce raiders like privateers is possible, but unlikely.

[TheUnforsaken]

You might find something similar to modern pirates, take a ship and hold it and the crew hostage...though in practice it would probably be even harder than it is today.

[Gudo]

I think traditional hijackings would be the way to go for this sort of thing. Smuggle yourself aboard the vessel before it makes it's voyage then capture it from within once underway. It doesn't solve the problem of taking control of the vessel, but it replaces the problem of catching up to and boarding the ship without destroying it to just boarding without being detected. On commercial transport vessels, it should be even easier as you could just purchase legitimate tickets.

[captainsmirk]

Well pirates are mentioned in the Terran section of Insider, indeed their presence is one of the primary reasons for the existence of the Terran fleet, most of its vessels are small patrol and police ships. It defensive capabilities are just a side-benefit, given that we had no evidence for the existence of sentient alien life prior to appearance of the Orgus. I expect it was difficult to get funding for building a space fleet to defend against "hypothetical" alien threats...

Nick

[Trantor]

Well pirates are mentioned in the Terran section of Insider, indeed their presence is one of the primary reasons for the existence of the Terran fleet,

No, Insider states that the small fleet is only to deter the possibility of piratism (and other threats).

Piratism in it´s original sense isn´t possible. There´s no stealth in space, no place to hide, and pace of progress obsoletes your pirateship immediately. You will be outrunned and outgunned within a second.

[icekatze]

hi hi

From what I understand, the Terran fleet was widely believed to be a waste of money and was in the process of being cut back before the Orgus showed up. The services they did provide were more like ensuring ships didn't deviate from their assigned trajectories, busting smugglers and providing assistance to craft in distress.