Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[boldilocks]

...

Stargate is retarded, although it's enjoyable.

All television is retarded. It's television. It's there to rot your brain.

[Bamax]

New question.

I take it Loroi have blue blood right?

I sawy that because Spiral had her tongue out making a silly face and it was all blue including her gums. Also Beryl blushed blue as well.

The weird thing is the eye iris color. Spiral's eyes are blue...so her eyes are the same color, only somewhat lighter than her own blood. Same goes for one if the snow white haired captains with blue eyes.

That would be like a human having red eyes. I guess Loroi just have all colors of the rainbow eye colors since so far that is,what I have seen...ROYGBIV.

[boldilocks]

For example...to say the Loroi know how to make stufff go boom is an understatement. Assuming they produce a lot of their AM like fuel, they could literally turn entire countries into molten lava.

Which is less useful than you'd think.

Imagine a bomb a thousandfold more powerful than our nukes? That's essentially what comes to mind when I heard just what the Lorou harness energywise.

I think it's unlikely that the Loroi's lack of success in pushing back the continuous Umiak industrial machine is because their explosions aren't big enough. I also think it's unlikely that you're going to have a lot of success trying to deliver hard-hitting powerful explosive devices in the form of missiles against a foe that already outclasses you on the missile front.

[boldilocks]

I take it Loroi have blue blood right?

That's correct.
It's more closely described in the Loroi Insider

[Bamax]

The difference between a rocket and a bomb is that one directs the blast in one direction and the other goes all over the place.

Energy resources on par with antimatter that are not antimatter can be utliized all sorts of ways besides mere missiles.

But as I have said and you have implied more or less, science fiction...the fiction part to be sure, can be stronger than whatever reality would normally dictate.

Looks like it takes a lot of Loroi missiles to take out just a few enemy vessels....which would imply that Umiak defense screens (science fictional shields) can block at least for a time whatever the Loroi are hitting them with.

So let us assume the Loroi are doing the equivalent of lobbing AM warheads at the Umiak. That is on par with Star Trek torpedos for damage. Trek does use antimatter but their torpedoes look like silly blobs of light instead of missiles.

I presume the Loroi vessels do beyond normally surviable accelerations...like 30g and so on or so I heard and survive it via inertial dampeners.

The amount of superfuel to do that constantly for several minutes would add up.


So if all this is true then the only one of my suggestions that could still give them an advantage is pusher plate missiles.

It would be best for single strikes, since the sheer power of it's exhaust would wipe out any nearby missiles anyway. It would use their AM equivalent energetic superfuel as bombs nstead of nuclear ones. Only more fully since like most all scifi vessels, they can only take so much heat.

A pusher plate missile will outperform a rocket for thrust since it can afford to use a greater amount of energy that would normally blow it up.

Now if Loroi vessels are cruusing around at 30g, you can bet that the missiles they fire are flying around at 100 g's or more.

An orion pusher plate pulse missile based on the same tech? Could likely push 200 or perhaps 300g via pulses.

A niche weapon but one regardless if you need ultra speed at all costs faster than your fastest missiles.

[Dan Wyatt]

Hello Arioch, What is the structural and numerical composition of the Union Assembly on Moro? Do Delrias, Arekka have representatives in Union assembly? I read that Mannadi don't. And what about the independents such as Nissek and Historians?

[Arioch]

Hello Arioch, What is the structural and numerical composition of the Union Assembly on Moro? Do Delrias, Arekka have representatives in Union assembly? I read that Mannadi don't. And what about the independents such as Nissek and Historians?

Each member nation sends delegates to the Union Assembly. I'm not sure exactly how representation is determined, but it's probably based on population size, and the total number is probably around four or five hundred delegates. The Assembly has two chairpersons, known as Teshrinel, that function like Roman consuls; one is appointed by the Loroi Azerein, and the other is elected by the Assembly (and is traditionally non-Loroi). There is also a variety of offices and committees, either elected by the full Assembly or appointed by one of the officers.

The Delrias and occupied Arekka send delegates to the Assembly; they can debate on the Assembly floor and serve on committees, but their votes have an "asterisk" next to them (in most cases, they don't count). The Arekka are split into two groups, one that is Loroi occupied, and the other which is independent. Only the occupied portion of the Arekka are represented in the Assembly; the independent part are not members of the Union.

The Nissek and Historians and independent Arekka are not members of the Union, and so they are not represented in the Assembly. Each usually has ambassadors on Moro, Deinar, and wherever the Azerein is at.

[Krulle]

When scrolling through https://well-of-souls.com/outsider/union_races.html, a few questions cropped up to me:

Do the Historians and the Nissek, as allies to the Union, have an "observer" status?
(beyond the MicroHistorian which installed itself in the Assembly Parliamentary's microphones)

Have they ever been formally invited to join the Union?
(Since "non-aligned/neutral" should not exist, but I presume the Historians at least are strong enough for the Loroi to wish to avoid a second frontier with them.
The latter seems to be true for the Nissek, even though they have not been depicted as being a force the Loroi couldn't handle if free from more urgent matters.)

Also, why are the Nissek not fighting more active? Do the Loroi dislike/distrust them so much, they don't want to spare their logistics for allied spacecraft to fight for them? Or are the logistics such, that the Nissek essentially need to supply themselves, as their logistic requirement are incompatible with what the Union can provide?
Do the Loroi know about what the threats to the Nissek territory are?

The Nissek are feudal, like the Loroi themselves.
Are the Nissek more self-centered like Human feudals often seem to have been (less "for the common good!" than "what's in it for me?")?
Do the Loroi have experience of Nissek being opportunistic and has this led to "diplomatic misunderstandings" in previous cooperations?

I imagine handling the Nissek is quite a task, as you'd have to watch the inner politics of the Nissek as well.
Similar to how the world watches and handles diplomacy with the EU and its member states.


Feel free to fully ignore this series of questions..

[Quickdraw101]

When scrolling through https://well-of-souls.com/outsider/union_races.html, a few questions cropped up to me:

Do the Historians and the Nissek, as allies to the Union, have an "observer" status?
(beyond the MicroHistorian which installed itself in the Assembly Parliamentary's microphones)

Have they ever been formally invited to join the Union?
(Since "non-aligned/neutral" should not exist, but I presume the Historians at least are strong enough for the Loroi to wish to avoid a second frontier with them.
The latter seems to be true for the Nissek, even though they have not been depicted as being a force the Loroi couldn't handle if free from more urgent matters.)

Also, why are the Nissek not fighting more active? Do the Loroi dislike/distrust them so much, they don't want to spare their logistics for allied spacecraft to fight for them? Or are the logistics such, that the Nissek essentially need to supply themselves, as their logistic requirement are incompatible with what the Union can provide?
Do the Loroi know about what the threats to the Nissek territory are?

The Nissek are feudal, like the Loroi themselves.
Are the Nissek more self-centered like Human feudals often seem to have been (less "for the common good!" than "what's in it for me?")?
Do the Loroi have experience of Nissek being opportunistic and has this led to "diplomatic misunderstandings" in previous cooperations?

I imagine handling the Nissek is quite a task, as you'd have to watch the inner politics of the Nissek as well.
Similar to how the world watches and handles diplomacy with the EU and its member states.


Feel free to fully ignore this series of questions..

Well Nissek territory is not only on the complete end of the front line of the fighting, they are apparently fighting someone else on their borders, so they aren't getting involved. As for the Historians, if I had to guess, don't trust the Loroi whatsoever, and refuse to give them a chance to mind read them to steal information.

[Arioch]

Do the Historians and the Nissek, as allies to the Union, have an "observer" status?

They have embassies on Moro, and most Assembly meetings are public.

Have they ever been formally invited to join the Union?

The Historians have never asked, and there has never been a formal offer. There has always been an understanding that all the Historians want from the Union is free access for their ships and agents to move through Union territory.

There has only been one addition to the Union since its formation, the Golim, and that was a special case. The Golim were admitted only under the agreement that their votes in the Assembly would have the same "asterisk" as the occupied nations (not counting under many circumstances), since any Golim delegates would be under the telepathic sway of the Loroi delegates, and they would automatically vote for whatever the Loroi wanted, and so this was seen as an attempt by the Loroi to pack the Assembly with more friendly votes.

Also, why are the Nissek not fighting more active? Do the Loroi dislike/distrust them so much, they don't want to spare their logistics for allied spacecraft to fight for them? Or are the logistics such, that the Nissek essentially need to supply themselves, as their logistic requirement are incompatible with what the Union can provide?

All of the above. The Nissek are chiefly known for their many wars of aggression against the Barsam and Mannadi and whoever is in the Ninnil Gap, and the Loroi were technically at war with the Nissek at one point, even though their forces never met. The "alliance" with the Union is a pro-forma thing, mainly to prevent the Nissek from renewing hostilities on the Union border. The Nissek have never offered the Loroi military assistance, and the Loroi have never asked for it. I think at this point the Union members are mostly satisfied with the alliance if it means that the Nissek won't stab them in the back while the majority of their military assets are engaged against the Umiak.

Do the Loroi know about what the threats to the Nissek territory are?

Yes, the threats to "Nissek territory" are from the Ninnil civilization who live in territory that the Nissek claim as their own.

[Krulle]

Thank you for answering my questions!

There has only been one addition to the Union since its formation, the Golim, and that was a special case. The Golim were admitted only under the agreement that their votes in the Assembly would have the same "asterisk" as the occupied nations (not counting under many circumstances), since any Golim delegates would be under the telepathic sway of the Loroi delegates, and they would automatically vote for whatever the Loroi wanted, and so this was seen as an attempt by the Loroi to pack the Assembly with more friendly votes.

I wonder how that goes for the Golim who are in the Loroi free areas, and see how the Golim are considered to be second class members this way.

Is their vote also disregarded when the decision has been taken by Golim in the "Loroi-free reservates", and transmitted to the Assembly?

Do the Loroi know about what the threats to the Nissek territory are?

Yes, the threats to "Nissek territory" are from the Ninnil civilization who live in territory that the Nissek claim as their own. :D

Yeah, you don't want to get too close with these "friends".
I wouldn't even wonder if the Loroi Mizol aren't supporting the Ninnil (in covert operations, and subtle, like smaller technology improvements), just to keep the Nissek busy a little harder. Because I am sure they wonder what the Nissek will do if they don't have threats to keep them occupied. And having morale boosted by a decissively won engagement, making them feel invincible.

[Arioch]

I wonder how that goes for the Golim who are in the Loroi free areas, and see how the Golim are considered to be second class members this way.

Is their vote also disregarded when the decision has been taken by Golim in the "Loroi-free reservates", and transmitted to the Assembly?

The Assembly mainly concerns itself with matters of interstellar trade, foreign relations, and the like. It doesn't govern individual planets or nations. The Golim of the "Deep Home" preserve on their homeworld live a traditional lifestyle that mostly spurns outside influence, and so most of the business of the Union Assembly are things they don't particularly care about.

One of the advantages of not being full voting members of the Union is that you avoid most taxes. Which is part of the reason the Delrias have been mostly content to remain "occupied" all this time.

Because of the slow speed of interstellar travel, Assembly delegates are sent with general instructions of various issues, and are expected to debate and vote with some autonomy. If a delegation has to send back to their local government for clarification, that can take weeks or months, and so is only done in cases of extreme importance. The chair can allow a recess for this, but it doesn't have to.

[Dan Wyatt]

I doubt Mizols have access to Ninnil, but the Historians might have knowledge about them.

[Bamax]

I know both the Loroi and Umiak beam weapon ranges are extreme (over 50,000 kilometers and up), but what I want to know is whether or not blooming was factored in?

Max effective range means that blooming (widening of the beam reducing damage output) doee not happen enough to weakem beam effectiveness until max range, which for both factions is utterly insane by our standards.


Ender's Game says space combat is 3-D.....but that depends on weapon range.

At the insanely long ranges of the Loroi and Umiak it can be more one dimensional, as you can imagibe firing at a cluster beyond visual range and it firing back. Not much dodging would help.

Only when ranges become closer....as they do in the comic, does combat really become 3-D.

The further away effective beam weapon range is, the less effective dodging becomes. I have noticed this firsthand playing airflight space combat sims (where you fly like an airplane but in space with lasers).

So do Loroi and Umiak weapons suffer from blooming at all?

IRL particle beams do because charged particles repel each other, and neutral beams do not but the heat of shooting them will also repel them in time....widening the beam.

[Snoofman]

I know both the Loroi and Umiak beam weapon ranges are extreme (over 50,000 kilometers and up), but what I want to know is whether or not blooming was factored in?

Max effective range means that blooming (widening of the beam reducing damage output) doee not happen enough to weakem beam effectiveness until max range, which for both factions is utterly insane by our standards.


Ender's Game says space combat is 3-D.....but that depends on weapon range.

At the insanely long ranges of the Loroi and Umiak it can be more one dimensional, as you can imagibe firing at a cluster beyond visual range and it firing back. Not much dodging would help.

Only when ranges become closer....as they do in the comic, does combat really become 3-D.

The further away effective beam weapon range is, the less effective dodging becomes. I have noticed this firsthand playing airflight space combat sims (where you fly like an airplane but in space with lasers).

So do Loroi and Umiak weapons suffer from blooming at all?

IRL particle beams do because charged particles repel each other, and neutral beams do not but the heat of shooting them will also repel them in time....widening the beam.

Given the advanced technological stage of the loroi and umiak, I'm sure both races have factored this in. Maybe they have fixed the problem of blooming. Maybe every shot they take has a small risk of missing.

Since dodging in space seems impossible as well as pointless, I wonder if the Alex, or humanity, will turn the tide of the war by introducing a new way of combating enemy ships. Instead of mass producing as many ships as possible, the loroi should concentrate on making indestructible ships that are built to take a beating. Much like the way the UNSC went from mass producing starships after the Covenant War to making ship's built to take a beating, hence the conception of UNSC Infinity or even Spirit of Fire.

[Bamax]

I know both the Loroi and Umiak beam weapon ranges are extreme (over 50,000 kilometers and up), but what I want to know is whether or not blooming was factored in?

Max effective range means that blooming (widening of the beam reducing damage output) doee not happen enough to weakem beam effectiveness until max range, which for both factions is utterly insane by our standards.


Ender's Game says space combat is 3-D.....but that depends on weapon range.

At the insanely long ranges of the Loroi and Umiak it can be more one dimensional, as you can imagibe firing at a cluster beyond visual range and it firing back. Not much dodging would help.

Only when ranges become closer....as they do in the comic, does combat really become 3-D.

The further away effective beam weapon range is, the less effective dodging becomes. I have noticed this firsthand playing airflight space combat sims (where you fly like an airplane but in space with lasers).

So do Loroi and Umiak weapons suffer from blooming at all?

IRL particle beams do because charged particles repel each other, and neutral beams do not but the heat of shooting them will also repel them in time....widening the beam.

Given the advanced technological stage of the loroi and umiak, I'm sure both races have factored this in. Maybe they have fixed the problem of blooming. Maybe every shot they take has a small risk of missing.

Since dodging in space seems impossible as well as pointless, I wonder if the Alex, or humanity, will turn the tide of the war by introducing a new way of combating enemy ships. Instead of mass producing as many ships as possible, the loroi should concentrate on making indestructible ships that are built to take a beating. Much like the way the UNSC went from mass producing starships after the Covenant War to making ship's built to take a beating, hence the conception of UNSC Infinity or even Spirit of Fire.

Such questions may have no answers and that is fine as well...this is fiction afterall so the details matter less than one may think. So long systems they do have are used with competence and people do not start acting like dumb Goauld or the Empire from SW I am happy.



Hmmm....the battle does occur at close range sometimes because of jump drives. As the first one shown displayef.

The irony is given their long range, vessel's have a better chance at dodging fighting at close range....where combat becomes more three dimensional and vessels can actually tail you or dodge.

Since Loroi have uber long range, you will het slaughtered unless you get close enough.

As of late seems Umiak are getting extremely close to overwhelm them before they finish them off.

[Ithekro]

See for yourself. https://well-of-souls.com/outsider/weapon_profiles.html

Provides some explanations on many of the ship based weapons used by the Loroi, Umiak, Historians, and Humans. As well as how much relative damage drops off with range. Several beam weapons have a large area of extreme range which they might or might not do damage to a target.

[Arioch]

I know both the Loroi and Umiak beam weapon ranges are extreme (over 50,000 kilometers and up), but what I want to know is whether or not blooming was factored in?

Of course, damage falloff due to beam divergence is factored into the damage tables. If there was no "bloom", beam ranges would be effectively infinite, limited only by time to target.

Whether you can hit the target at a distance and how much damage something will do if it hits at that distance are two different things.

[Bamax]

I know both the Loroi and Umiak beam weapon ranges are extreme (over 50,000 kilometers and up), but what I want to know is whether or not blooming was factored in?

Of course, damage falloff due to beam divergence is factored into the damage tables. If there was no "bloom", beam ranges would be effectively infinite, limited only by time to target.

Whether you can hit the target at a distance and how much damage something will do if it hits at that distance are two different things.

I see...so were it not for effective shields and raw numbers the Loroi would have sniped the Umiak to defeat by now....since laying back and pouring it on would work if the Umiak could be wiped out at max weapon range....apparently that is not so easy.


New Question:


How long can Loroi and Umiak vessels cruise around at their max before running out of fuel?
I know Loroi can do 30g, and Umiak are somewhere along 28g I think.

Like if I had a fully fueled Tempest, (Stiilstorm's ship), how far could I get cruising at 30g before running out of fuel? No jumping. I wanna see how far a full tank will take them starting in Earth low orbit.

Mars: Of course.

Jupiter: Yeah....should.

Pluto: I dunno, takes 5 lighthours at lightspeed from Earth I saw online once this would take a refueling no doubt.

Knowing all this means and has grave consequences for how many fuel depots they have available.

Since once they dry up the best they can do is jump around and maybe ISRU hydrogen or helium from an asteroid or moon, but that would put them in a vulnerable spot to be attacked....and it would take longer than a fueld depot.

[Arioch]

How long can Loroi and Umiak vessels cruise around at their max before running out of fuel?

It would vary by ship; different ships have different top accelerations, fuel capacities and efficiencies. I think the estimate I've used previously was that a typical Loroi cruiser (Scimitar) could maintain full 30g acceleration for something like 100 hours. From a standing start:

s = ½at²
s = ½(30*9.8m/s/s)(100*3600s)²
s = 19,051,200,000,000 m = 1,059 light minutes = 127 AU.

For comparison, Pluto's mean orbital radius is 39.4 AU.

However, this is not a strict limitation on combat range, because we wouldn't expect the ships to be accelerating the whole time. Maximum range is determined by how quickly you need to get there. A low-fuel-consumption course can get you a long way on comparatively little fuel; it just takes a lot longer to get there.