Stars in Shadow

[ShadowDragon8685]

The Yorgal declared war on me for $REASONS.
They didn't come at me in like, ten turns. Eventually, I said "this is stupid, let's end this war."

I paid 100 Influence to end the war, 80 to establish embassies again, 80 to establish trade again...

And the very next turn, they declared war again.


THIS NEEDS TO BE ADRESSED! The player shouldn't be allowed to spend a metric assload of influence to accomplish something only to have it immediately undone by the AI going "Psych!" Either the AI should be bound by its agreements to end wars for a nice long time (like, 80-100 turns minimum,) or it should reject peace offers if it's just going to declare again next turn.

Really? I would just throw in a negative reputation hit on them, and have the AI take that into account. Potentially more variety in the gameplay that way.

It would need to be huge: nobody should ever again want to trust the guy who just signed a peace treaty and then pulled a "Psych! Heil Hitler!" on someone.

I mean, I'm all for not outright prohibiting actions in video games, because it can get absurd. Consider Stellaris: "There's galaxy-devouring monsters on the far side of this galaxy. We have a fleet that can stop them, but only if we can get to and take their beachhead so they're warping into hostile territory. We WANT to go and get them, but some tiny, pissant pack of radical pacifists refuses to open their borders to us for any reason. We would like to say "screw you guys" and fly across their space, but we shouldn't have to declare all-out war on them to do so."

But there should be consequences for doing things like, say, reneging on your word, or violating someone else's territory.

[Krulle]

To invade a planet you need to build ground forces and load them onto transports (or build the "troop transport" option, which includes both).

That's why I always play Elerian, or Custom Race with the appropriate pick...
Oh, wait, that's Master of Orion 2.
DosBox loading again....

[dragoongfa]

Gameplay Issues: AI lags in research and/or mounting weapons.

I initially thought that the slavers tech too fast when compared with the player and the AI as they currently have Large Railguns and Fusion Missiles mounted on their planets when the AI still has Lasers and Nuclear Torpedoes mounted on their ships. I am at stardate 1304 which means that either the AI is slacking on the research department or their ships aren't properly outfitted with what they currently have.

Considering that I do observe progression in AI tech I think that the AI just doesn't refit its past designs. Could be intentional or non implemented.

EDIT: Yes the lack of an automated Refit is by far the worse problem of the game in its current iteration, I know that it is being worked on but I just can't not comment on it.

In order to properly have a refit system a few things need to be included:

1: Refit queue
2: To refit based on existing blueprints
3: The ability to select multiple ships for refit
4: A semi automatic 'hide obsolete equipment' function when editing current designs, the ability to mark certain weapons as obsolete would also be nice

As it stands now the lategame is an extreme chore as trying to refit dozens of ships one by one is a nightmare.

[ShadowDragon8685]

One thing I'm wondering about: Is the AI opportunistically comparing their fleet strength to yours when deciding when to go to war?

They should also compare industrial base, economic and metal base, too. When the fuzzies decided to claw my bollocks off and I said "naw," I was able to basically conjure a fleet out of wholecloth inside of ten turns and kick them inna nuts on even terms.

[Arioch]

The two major additions we are making to the refit system are:

A - option to refit to existing design (instead of having to choose components manually for each ship)

B - mass refit (the ability to instantly refit all ships in a class with a currency payment instead of production)

[Siber]

Thank goodness. I started playing yesterday, and am having a lot of fun, but refits are already wearing on me.

[Arioch]

Here's a repost of the development roadmap:

Development Plans
We expect to be in Early Access for a few months while we flesh out systems, add assets and put a polish on gameplay. During this period, we will try to maintain a clear roadmap of development progress, and pay close attention to player feedback. Here is a list of features planned to be added during Early Access, in the rough order in which we plan to tackle them:

• Strategic Zoom: two additional zoom levels for the strategic map, one in and one out, to allow you to better step back and and see the larger picture or lean forward and concentrate on local details.
• Galactic Council: adding graphical victory screens both for the existing conquest victory and for a new Galactic Council victory. You don't necessarily need to destroy everyone if you can befriend, coerce, or otherwise awe a sufficient percentage of the surviving sentients in the galaxy.
• Diplomacy Event System: in addition to expanding the number of diplomatic issues and the ways factions can respond to them, we are adding a new event system that will allow the AI factions to create issues outside of direct player behavior to help further drive interactions and the sense of a living galaxy. Events can take the familiar form of such things as natural disasters, or they can be action cues for an AI faction leader who may have simply gotten out of the wrong side of the bed that morning.
• New Player Tutorials: an expanded set of (optional) advisor notifications that will help ease new players through the mechanics of the game.
• Game Options: adding a variety of gameplay options, including graphical settings and more advanced map configuration settings.
• Enhanced Refit System: new functionality for the ship refit system to allow mass refit for cash (rather than production), and refit to class (in addition to per-ship refit).
• New Encounters: space monsters, Pirate asteroid bases, and new interactions with existing minor races (such as those pesky Gaiads).
• Tactical Combat Enhancements: including area of effect weapons and a rebalancing of fighter mechanics.
• Added Faction Mechanics: two additional playable factions (Phidi and Ashdar Imperials), and full implementation of the special features that distinguish one faction from another, including: Gremak distortion fields, Orthin shield capacitors, Ashdar stargates, Human salvage systems, Phidi resource trading and mercenary hiring.
• UI Refinements: usability improvements to the screens for the Ship Designer, Research, Tactical Combat, and miscellaneous status screens, along with improved informational tooltips throughout.
• Steam Integration: Steam Achievements, Trading Cards, and what not.

Post-Release Plans
We have many ambitious plans for features that won’t fit into the time constraints for the initial release of the game, and so if there is still interest, there is plenty of ground to cover with post-release content. Exactly what form this will take remains to be seen. Features we’d like to add include: new playable factions (Tinkers and Gardeners), Officers, Ship Promotions, Player Campaign Victory Conditions, Steamworks integration and Multiplayer support.

[ShadowDragon8685]

The lack of a map zoom has been bugging me. No rhyme or reason for it, since it's perfectly usable at the default zoom, it's just one of those things you expect that feels missing. I didn't want to mention it because it's such a minor thing, really.

What about the option to rename whole star systems?


Also, do you have any larger-scale versions of the artwork for the human refugees or colonists, and Lt. Bailey? I mean, that you're at liberty to share?

[e] Also, is there any plan to add map shapes, so the game map isn't just a relatively heterogenous mat of stars? Spiral galaxies, long and thin, clusters, etc? Maybe add Outsider-like areas that impede hyperspace, adding natural terrain?

[e2] Is there any way to embark a sub-1pt number of colonists? I'm trying to move like 300,000 humans off an airless world so the Wrem can have it all to themselves. Do I just have to wait until they're near enough to a 1pt pop?

[e3] City Planning could probably use a tooltip to explain that it increases pop growth rate, it's not as intuitive as "TRADE" is. It should also be treated as a completed construction when the population caps off, canceling and prompting the player to select something else.

There could maybe also stand to be, say, a "nutrient recycling" thing that produces extra food, and maybe an "intensive recycling program" that produces extra metal.

Also, it would be nice if the planetary report sorted by star system, or at least by planet name, rather than going in willy-nilly.

[Arioch]

The lack of a map zoom has been bugging me. No rhyme or reason for it, since it's perfectly usable at the default zoom, it's just one of those things you expect that feels missing. I didn't want to mention it because it's such a minor thing, really.

It's at the top of our list of things to do, after bug fixes.

What about the option to rename whole star systems?

It's on the list of requested features that would be nice to add.

Also, do you have any larger-scale versions of the artwork for the human refugees or colonists, and Lt. Bailey? I mean, that you're at liberty to share?

Yes, though I need to get my computer back before I can access them. What did you want them for?

[e]Also, is there any plan to add map shapes, so the game map isn't just a relatively heterogenous mat of stars? Spiral galaxies, long and thin, clusters, etc? Maybe add Outsider-like areas that impede hyperspace, adding natural terrain?

Different map shapes are a possibility, but personally I find a collection of 100 stars shaped like a spiral galaxy to be ridiculous and immersion-breaking. I think of the map as a cluster of stars rather than a galaxy.

[e2] Is there any way to embark a sub-1pt number of colonists? I'm trying to move like 300,000 humans off an airless world so the Wrem can have it all to themselves. Do I just have to wait until they're near enough to a 1pt pop?

No and yes. But you don't really gain yourself anything by removing the humans.

[e3] City Planning could probably use a tooltip to explain that it increases pop growth rate, it's not as intuitive as "TRADE" is. It should also be treated as a completed construction when the population caps off, canceling and prompting the player to select something else.

I think just about everything could use more tooltips, but documentation is among the last things we'll do before release.

There could maybe also stand to be, say, a "nutrient recycling" thing that produces extra food, and maybe an "intensive recycling program" that produces extra metal.

We're considering those things.

Also, it would be nice if the planetary report sorted by star system, or at least by planet name, rather than going in willy-nilly.

Well they're sorted by population and not willy-nilly, but a variable sorting feature would be nice to have.

[ShadowDragon8685]

What about the option to rename whole star systems?

It's on the list of requested features that would be nice to add.

I claim this star, and I shall call it... 'This Star'.
(Also, curse your sudden-but-inevitable betrayal!)

Also, do you have any larger-scale versions of the artwork for the human refugees or colonists, and Lt. Bailey? I mean, that you're at liberty to share?

Yes, though I need to get my computer back before I can access them. What did you want them for?

I just rather liked them and wanted to see the full-detail versions, if such existed. Also, I noticed that the colonist/refugee icons on the issue tracker at the right were different from the population icons. Do those have fullsize versions?

[e]Also, is there any plan to add map shapes, so the game map isn't just a relatively heterogenous mat of stars? Spiral galaxies, long and thin, clusters, etc? Maybe add Outsider-like areas that impede hyperspace, adding natural terrain?

Different map shapes are a possibility, but personally I find a collection of 100 stars shaped like a spiral galaxy to be ridiculous and immersion-breaking. I think of the map as a cluster of stars rather than a galaxy.

Well, I agree with you in that it is slightly silly, but we'd need the processing power of the SETI @Home project to run a game with the number of stars that actually exist in a galaxy, not to mention an extremely robust automation system capable of running thousands of turns at a tick. It's one of those things that's an acceptable break from reality in the name of gameplay convention; adding terrain of a sort.

It might also help to cut down on "border gore," where people are colonizing willy-nilly without any respect for proximity to my stuff. It's like, guy, are you trying to start a war, colonizing a star behind five parsecs of my planets? Because that's how you start a war!

[e2] Is there any way to embark a sub-1pt number of colonists? I'm trying to move like 300,000 humans off an airless world so the Wrem can have it all to themselves. Do I just have to wait until they're near enough to a 1pt pop?

No and yes. But you don't really gain yourself anything by removing the humans.

Really? Huh. I thought they were, well, "taking up" space that the Wrem could be taking up?

[Arioch]

Also, I noticed that the colonist/refugee icons on the issue tracker at the right were different from the population icons. Do those have fullsize versions?

There are two sizes for population graphics: normal and "chibi" (smaller).

[e2] Is there any way to embark a sub-1pt number of colonists? I'm trying to move like 300,000 humans off an airless world so the Wrem can have it all to themselves. Do I just have to wait until they're near enough to a 1pt pop?

No and yes. But you don't really gain yourself anything by removing the humans.

Really? Huh. I thought they were, well, "taking up" space that the Wrem could be taking up?

Yes, but Human colonists have better yields than the Wrem, so it would be counter-productive to remove them. A planet's max population cap will never go up as a result of removing population.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Also, I noticed that the colonist/refugee icons on the issue tracker at the right were different from the population icons. Do those have fullsize versions?

There are two sizes for population graphics: normal and "chibi" (smaller).

Ah. Are the chibi versions downscaled from large, detailed images, or no? I'm guessing that the normal versions were downscaled from larger, full-page images?

Yes, but Human colonists have better yields than the Wrem, so it would be counter-productive to remove them. A planet's max population cap will never go up as a result of removing population.

Ahhh, I failed to understand that. I thought the humans being present was reducing the maximum population cap into which the Wren could could expand. Thanks, that's cleared that up.

I've been colonizing airless worlds from other, more human-friendly worlds in the systems, then moving the Wren onto them and moving the humans off. I guess that's kinda silly though.


[e]Also, on the topic of UI, it might be nice to be able to shade, or "tag" ships of different designs based on the same chassis. I've been making some Fleet Bases which are stuffed chock full of science labs, and others which are supporting ship construction. It might be nice to be able to tag one of them with like, a wrench, or a science icon.

Also, on that note, I think colonist and lab R&D needs a buff. Something like 65% of my R&D comes from orbital labs, and they're insanely good compared to land-based R&D. You might want to consider adding artifacts or something to some planets (the way some of them have Rich mineral yields,) to incentivize labs instead of, say, more factories.

[e2] Also, how the heck do I get more metal? I'm badly hurting for the stuff just from building a few ships and stations. I'm drowning in cash to the point I can fastrack any colony's startup just by rush-buying a few factories, and I've got tons of production, but my mineral income is anemic. What techs lead to tier3 mines?

[ShadowDragon8685]

I just found a pretty massive bug, BTW. I was hyperspacing my fleet away from a system with Marauders in it, when I found some other Marauders who apparently wanted to exact tribute from me. I told them they could pound sand, and the other Marauders apparently went aggro on me and autoresolved a battle against my fleet, which went decidedly poorly for me.

[e]Here is the savegame taken just before it happens. The fleet in question is hyperspacing away from Azimir, which is at the far east of my hyperspace territory. Run one turn and the fleet is auto-destroyed in an autoresolved combat.

I'm gonna try and attack the fleet and prevail in manual combat.

[e2]Holy fuck! Those pirates tech up waaaay the hell too fast. How the sodding hell are they supporting a tech base like that? More importantly: why don't they own the galaxy?!

Their battleships are basically invincible. ONE of them could curbstomp my entire empire.

[dragoongfa]

Are you plopping mines on only mineral rich worlds? Generally speaking unless you have multiple mineral rich worlds its best to plant a mine on every normal world.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Are you plopping mines on only mineral rich worlds? Generally speaking unless you have multiple mineral rich worlds its best to plant a mine on every normal world.

I'm throwing at least one mine on every world that's not mineral-poor, but still, I'm starving for minerals. Especially now that I have to replace an entire fleet.

[dragoongfa]

Personally I go with two approaches:

Full rush for mineral rich worlds where I go full ham with insta bought mines, I plop a farm only if its a medium and larger planet where the population will be a big net drain, otherwise I just let it there with only mines and a market (it helps with population morale).

A mine in every planet and I colonize small arid planets early to mine them out. This in case I don't have mineral rich worlds.

[Arioch]

Ah. Are the chibi versions downscaled from large, detailed images, or no? I'm guessing that the normal versions were downscaled from larger, full-page images?

No. If they were downsampled from the same image there wouldn't be a need to have two of them.

[e]Also, on the topic of UI, it might be nice to be able to shade, or "tag" ships of different designs based on the same chassis. I've been making some Fleet Bases which are stuffed chock full of science labs, and others which are supporting ship construction. It might be nice to be able to tag one of them with like, a wrench, or a science icon.

This is already on my list of user suggestions, and I think it's one that would be helpful. Maybe the ability to choose between several different markings schemes.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Ah. Are the chibi versions downscaled from large, detailed images, or no? I'm guessing that the normal versions were downscaled from larger, full-page images?

No. If they were downsampled from the same image there wouldn't be a need to have two of them.

I communicated poorly; I believed that they had been downsampled from two different images, is what I meant, the chibi one moreso than the other.

[e]Also, on the topic of UI, it might be nice to be able to shade, or "tag" ships of different designs based on the same chassis. I've been making some Fleet Bases which are stuffed chock full of science labs, and others which are supporting ship construction. It might be nice to be able to tag one of them with like, a wrench, or a science icon.

This is already on my list of user suggestions, and I think it's one that would be helpful. Maybe the ability to choose between several different markings schemes.

If there's anyone who can make that look hella good, it'd be you. I've always wanted to see a Loroi fleet in a different livery than that which we've seen so far, but you mentioned in the Insider that you weren't planning to do that for fear of confusing the viewer.



Back to the topic of interspeciated habitats, though, I'm confused. I have a glacier planet with a mixed pop of humans and Yoral.
The human population cap on a glacier world of this size is 9m, but the Yoral pop cap is 12m. The population levelled off and stabalized, though, with 5,015,450 humans, and 3, 984,550 Yoral; 8,999,900 total, near-as-makes-no-difference to 9m. Shouldn't there be room for another 3m Yoral, who are not constrained by the habitation requirements of the humans, to grow and expand into? IE, shouldn't both pops keep expanding until either the human pop hits their 9m cap and the Yoral keep expanding until they fill up the rest of the 12m cap, or the total hits the 12m planet cap, whichever comes first?

[Arioch]

Back to the topic of interspeciated habitats, though, I'm confused. I have a glacier planet with a mixed pop of humans and Yoral.
The human population cap on a glacier world of this size is 9m, but the Yoral pop cap is 12m. The population levelled off and stabalized, though, with 5,015,450 humans, and 3, 984,550 Yoral; 8,999,900 total, near-as-makes-no-difference to 9m. Shouldn't there be room for another 3m Yoral, who are not constrained by the habitation requirements of the humans, to grow and expand into? IE, shouldn't both pops keep expanding until either the human pop hits their 9m cap and the Yoral keep expanding until they fill up the rest of the 12m cap, or the total hits the 12m planet cap, whichever comes first?

The population growth model is complicated, but essentially it is designed so that moving population may be positive but is never negative. Each race has a habitability rating for each biome on a planet. If you move a race that has a better rating than the current population for at least some of the biomes on that planet, the max population cap will increase by an appropriate amount. However, that cap increase is the same whether or not there are still other races with lower ratings on the planet. It's partly for simplicity and partly so that population management is a perk and not a hassle.

Sven talks more about the model in this thread:
http://stars-in-shadow.com/forum/viewto ... 3395#p3395

[ShadowDragon8685]

Back to the topic of interspeciated habitats, though, I'm confused. I have a glacier planet with a mixed pop of humans and Yoral.
The human population cap on a glacier world of this size is 9m, but the Yoral pop cap is 12m. The population levelled off and stabalized, though, with 5,015,450 humans, and 3, 984,550 Yoral; 8,999,900 total, near-as-makes-no-difference to 9m. Shouldn't there be room for another 3m Yoral, who are not constrained by the habitation requirements of the humans, to grow and expand into? IE, shouldn't both pops keep expanding until either the human pop hits their 9m cap and the Yoral keep expanding until they fill up the rest of the 12m cap, or the total hits the 12m planet cap, whichever comes first?

The population growth model is complicated, but essentially it is designed so that moving population may be positive but is never negative. Each race has a habitability rating for each biome on a planet. If you move a race that has a better rating than the current population for at least some of the biomes on that planet, the max population cap will increase by an appropriate amount. However, that cap increase is the same whether or not there are still other races with lower ratings on the planet. It's partly for simplicity and partly so that population management is a perk and not a hassle.

Sven talks more about the model in this thread:
http://stars-in-shadow.com/forum/viewto ... 3395#p3395

Okay, I get the simple bit - it should never be worth it to move a population off a world they're already inhabiting just to increase pop cap.
What I am sure of, though, is that the game is doing a very poor job of communicating the truthfulness of that. It looks like I have an underutilized planet that's locked down below its max population, showing as being 9/12, but with both human and Yoral pops listed as stabilized.