As long as there's floaty bits.Arioch wrote:I can think of at least one way, but I'll delay answering that until she actually appears in the comic, because the design could well change before then.Carl Miller wrote:Also, how do the floaty bits of the Azerein's crown float?
Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
The Highland weighs two and a half times what a 747 does, and the mass is spread out over the lifting body, instead of concentrated in a tubular fuselage. It can make a vertical landing on its maneuvering thrusters if it's not carrying too much, but a normal landing on a runway is much safer and more fuel efficient. It can't take off vertically with a full load, unless you stand it on its tail.ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Point taken. But a quinticycle landing gear arrangement? Is a fully-laden Highland so heavy that three can't take it? And if she was fully-laden, would she need a runway to take off and land? She doesn't look like she gets all that much aerodynamic lift.
Physical link is not transmitted through another person. A would have physical link with B, and B would have physical link with C. That's all.ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Also, what happens if three Loroi touch one another in a daisy-chain arrangement, A <-> B <-> C style? Would A and C have full skin-contact bandwidth to one another through B?
What if B was a human?
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
So... {lol}.. if four were holding hands in a circle the only way for the two separated pairs would be linked is if they all kissed in the center? kinky.
But is that really necessary..? Can't Loroi form a mental bond telepathically without touching...?
I know the bandwidth is greater in physical contact but a mind-link is still possible at very close range right, even if not touching?
But is that really necessary..? Can't Loroi form a mental bond telepathically without touching...?
I know the bandwidth is greater in physical contact but a mind-link is still possible at very close range right, even if not touching?
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Point taken - and a Highland is also significantly smaller than a Boeing 747, too...Arioch wrote:The Highland weighs two and a half times what a 747 does, and the mass is spread out over the lifting body, instead of concentrated in a tubular fuselage. It can make a vertical landing on its maneuvering thrusters if it's not carrying too much, but a normal landing on a runway is much safer and more fuel efficient. It can't take off vertically with a full load, unless you stand it on its tail.
Wait a minute, though - wouldn't that make a runway landing really, really hard on the gear? I mean, if it's coming down like a plane, it would be touching down with its rearmost gear first; those rearmost gear look to be about the same size as a 747's, but they'd be taking twice or better than twice the weight, before the craft pitched down and brought its middle and forward gear into play. Is it only safe to make a straight-down all-five-at-once landing which would necessitate either a really long glide slope or a sudden burst of the forward thrusters, or is the gear just ridiculously tough?
Ah, thanks. And my apologies for not seeing it sooner in the Insider bits. Soooo much information, it's dizzyingly wonderful.Arioch wrote:Physical link is not transmitted through another person. A would have physical link with B, and B would have physical link with C. That's all.
Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
"Highland" isn't particularly heavy. For comparison, the An-225 has a dry weight of 250 tons, with a total load of about 600 and a half. And normally flies / land. "Highland" of course heavy and smaller, which may well mean higher specific load on the chassis, but I think that the Union of the available materials and technologies make it possible to compensate for this.ShadowDragon8685 wrote: Point taken. But a quinticycle landing gear arrangement? Is a fully-laden Highland so heavy that three can't take it? And if she was fully-laden, would she need a runway to take off and land? She doesn't look like she gets all that much aerodynamic lift.
A vertical takeoff and landing heavy transport - is physically impossible task. If you are sure you cannot manipulate the masses. Just what would keep a lot of weight in the air alone engines, the thrust will require huge. Since the engines there are still reactive, reactive jet engines from the desired power will be such that the coating of GDP simply blow away. Along with all that happens nearby. It is if we forget about the little things, like a reflection of the jet from the ground, which will hit the rebound on the bottom, and even a couple of unpleasant moments.
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
The gear is probably incredibly tough. As Tamri pointed out, we can land pretty heavy aircraft on runways in reality, so it's likely the much more advanced Loroi can do better. The maneuvering thrusters would probably be useful in providing cushioning, too.ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Point taken - and a Highland is also significantly smaller than a Boeing 747, too...Arioch wrote:The Highland weighs two and a half times what a 747 does, and the mass is spread out over the lifting body, instead of concentrated in a tubular fuselage. It can make a vertical landing on its maneuvering thrusters if it's not carrying too much, but a normal landing on a runway is much safer and more fuel efficient. It can't take off vertically with a full load, unless you stand it on its tail.
Wait a minute, though - wouldn't that make a runway landing really, really hard on the gear? I mean, if it's coming down like a plane, it would be touching down with its rearmost gear first; those rearmost gear look to be about the same size as a 747's, but they'd be taking twice or better than twice the weight, before the craft pitched down and brought its middle and forward gear into play. Is it only safe to make a straight-down all-five-at-once landing which would necessitate either a really long glide slope or a sudden burst of the forward thrusters, or is the gear just ridiculously tough?
Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
hi hi
The largest common 747 variant (8I) has a max takeoff weight of 493.5 (us)tons. It also does not have armor plating. Armor plating is by necessity really heavy.
The largest common 747 variant (8I) has a max takeoff weight of 493.5 (us)tons. It also does not have armor plating. Armor plating is by necessity really heavy.
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
If you're going to be using the thrusters, though, doesn't that defeat the purpose of a runway takeoff/landing? You'd still risk melting the tarmac.Mr Bojangles wrote:The gear is probably incredibly tough. As Tamri pointed out, we can land pretty heavy aircraft on runways in reality, so it's likely the much more advanced Loroi can do better. The maneuvering thrusters would probably be useful in providing cushioning, too.ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Point taken - and a Highland is also significantly smaller than a Boeing 747, too...Arioch wrote:The Highland weighs two and a half times what a 747 does, and the mass is spread out over the lifting body, instead of concentrated in a tubular fuselage. It can make a vertical landing on its maneuvering thrusters if it's not carrying too much, but a normal landing on a runway is much safer and more fuel efficient. It can't take off vertically with a full load, unless you stand it on its tail.
Wait a minute, though - wouldn't that make a runway landing really, really hard on the gear? I mean, if it's coming down like a plane, it would be touching down with its rearmost gear first; those rearmost gear look to be about the same size as a 747's, but they'd be taking twice or better than twice the weight, before the craft pitched down and brought its middle and forward gear into play. Is it only safe to make a straight-down all-five-at-once landing which would necessitate either a really long glide slope or a sudden burst of the forward thrusters, or is the gear just ridiculously tough?
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Assuming the runway is made of tarmac, that could be a risk (the Loroi may not use hydrocarbon-based surfacers). But, the shuttle wouldn't necessarily need to use the thrusters all the way till contact. Just long enough to bleed enough speed that it doesn't hit the ground as hard.ShadowDragon8685 wrote:If you're going to be using the thrusters, though, doesn't that defeat the purpose of a runway takeoff/landing? You'd still risk melting the tarmac.Mr Bojangles wrote:The gear is probably incredibly tough. As Tamri pointed out, we can land pretty heavy aircraft on runways in reality, so it's likely the much more advanced Loroi can do better. The maneuvering thrusters would probably be useful in providing cushioning, too.
Another thought - the HIghland has inertial dampening. That could potentially be used to absorb some or all of the impact force. Dampening is for both the occupants and the ship itself.
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
The problem with using this for a rolling landing is that if you reduce forward momentum, you lose aerodynamic lift. You lose aerodynamic lift, you're going to accelerate towards the ground. Everybody who's ever played with the spaceplane hangar in Kerbal Space Program has, I imagine, tried this at some point or another by attaching some SRBs facing forward because they're so fucking terrible at landing they always overshoot the runway. (Then they git gud. Or they abandon spaceplanes. Either/or.) If you're using downward thrust to cushion an otherwise hard landing, you're going to be aiming your RCS at the ground one way or another.Mr Bojangles wrote:Assuming the runway is made of tarmac, that could be a risk (the Loroi may not use hydrocarbon-based surfacers). But, the shuttle wouldn't necessarily need to use the thrusters all the way till contact. Just long enough to bleed enough speed that it doesn't hit the ground as hard.
On the other hand, it canwork with forward thrusters if you use it when you're already on the ground, to rapidly decelerate, but if you're already on the ground rolling, you can presumably just use the wheel brakes to do that, unless you're stupidly heavily laden or something. But at that point, we're back to being concerned with gear collapse and tire blowouts... Though, I imagine the Loroi probably use non-pnuematic smart-tires.
Arioch - is Loroi wheel technology more advanced than pneumatic blow-up tires?
I'm not sure inertial dampening is really good enough to protect you from sharp, sudden impacts, otherwise it would be effective against ballistic damage.Another thought - the Highland has inertial dampening. That could potentially be used to absorb some or all of the impact force. Dampening is for both the occupants and the ship itself.
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
How much do Loroi sleep?
This is a silly question. I feel like I've read somewhere that they only need about two hours of sleep in a day, but I've searched the Insider high and low and I can't seem to find any mention of it. The Insider search function isn't being very useful. Have I imagined that?
This is a silly question. I feel like I've read somewhere that they only need about two hours of sleep in a day, but I've searched the Insider high and low and I can't seem to find any mention of it. The Insider search function isn't being very useful. Have I imagined that?
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Details, details. But, yeah, that's a good point.ShadowDragon8685 wrote:The problem with using this for a rolling landing is that if you reduce forward momentum, you lose aerodynamic lift. You lose aerodynamic lift, you're going to accelerate towards the ground. Everybody who's ever played with the spaceplane hangar in Kerbal Space Program has, I imagine, tried this at some point or another by attaching some SRBs facing forward because they're so fucking terrible at landing they always overshoot the runway. (Then they git gud. Or they abandon spaceplanes. Either/or.) If you're using downward thrust to cushion an otherwise hard landing, you're going to be aiming your RCS at the ground one way or another.Mr Bojangles wrote:Assuming the runway is made of tarmac, that could be a risk (the Loroi may not use hydrocarbon-based surfacers). But, the shuttle wouldn't necessarily need to use the thrusters all the way till contact. Just long enough to bleed enough speed that it doesn't hit the ground as hard.
I think something of the Highland's mass would need reverse thrusters.ShadowDragon8685 wrote: On the other hand, it canwork with forward thrusters if you use it when you're already on the ground, to rapidly decelerate, but if you're already on the ground rolling, you can presumably just use the wheel brakes to do that, unless you're stupidly heavily laden or something. But at that point, we're back to being concerned with gear collapse and tire blowouts... Though, I imagine the Loroi probably use non-pnuematic smart-tires.
Arioch - is Loroi wheel technology more advanced than pneumatic blow-up tires?
Hmmm, well, the Highland can sustain 20G according to the Insider. I don't think the impact due to a controlled landing would be sharp enough to exceed that. About ballistic damage, I think dampening would be able to mitigate it (to a point). On page 80, when Winter Tide is first hit, we get a glimpse of Nova: the explosion made her move, but doesn't appear to have thrown her. Of course, that could be down to the sheer mass of the ship, rather than dampeners.ShadowDragon8685 wrote:I'm not sure inertial dampening is really good enough to protect you from sharp, sudden impacts, otherwise it would be effective against ballistic damage.Mr Bojangles wrote:Another thought - the Highland has inertial dampening. That could potentially be used to absorb some or all of the impact force. Dampening is for both the occupants and the ship itself.
Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
You can land a washing machine on a runway if you're got enough airspeed; it's just a question of how long a runway you have to work with. If you have thrusters that allow you make a VTOL landing, then surely you can use them to reduce vertical velocity without reducing airspeed. How much fuel you want to spend on the maneuvering thrusters during landing is, I guess, a function of how short your runway is.
I doubt that it will require exotic materials to make tires that can handle a Highland landing. I doubt we'll actually see them, so I'm not going to worry about it too much at this moment.
On the subject of inertial damping: my internal model for how the ships using Floater Drive (which is the Loroi and most allied ships) is that the internal inertial dampers mainly protect the passengers and sensitive innards of a ship, while the drive itself uses inertial amplifiers to increase the inertia of the propellant as it leaves the engine. Whereas the Umiak Plastron Drive dispenses with the latter element, and produces the same effect by using inertial dampers that reduce the inertia of the entire ship. So while the Loroi can't use their inertial dampers to reduce kinetic impacts, this is something the Umiak can do.
I doubt that it will require exotic materials to make tires that can handle a Highland landing. I doubt we'll actually see them, so I'm not going to worry about it too much at this moment.
On the subject of inertial damping: my internal model for how the ships using Floater Drive (which is the Loroi and most allied ships) is that the internal inertial dampers mainly protect the passengers and sensitive innards of a ship, while the drive itself uses inertial amplifiers to increase the inertia of the propellant as it leaves the engine. Whereas the Umiak Plastron Drive dispenses with the latter element, and produces the same effect by using inertial dampers that reduce the inertia of the entire ship. So while the Loroi can't use their inertial dampers to reduce kinetic impacts, this is something the Umiak can do.
Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
hi hi
I think the difference between a stream of particles moving a significant fraction of the speed of light, and a hundred miles an hour, may be a significant difference. That the Umiak can use it to help defend their ships is actually pretty hard core!
Also, landing retro-rockets are old school technology. Some models of the German DFS 230 military glider had rockets in the nose to assist with landing rather than parachutes.
Arioch mentioned the wheels, and I would wager that no one would be using basic vulcanized rubber in a vacuum environment anyways.
I think the difference between a stream of particles moving a significant fraction of the speed of light, and a hundred miles an hour, may be a significant difference. That the Umiak can use it to help defend their ships is actually pretty hard core!
Also, landing retro-rockets are old school technology. Some models of the German DFS 230 military glider had rockets in the nose to assist with landing rather than parachutes.
Arioch mentioned the wheels, and I would wager that no one would be using basic vulcanized rubber in a vacuum environment anyways.
Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
I believe that sanzai==mind link.sunphoenix wrote:So... {lol}.. if four were holding hands in a circle the only way for the two separated pairs would be linked is if they all kissed in the center? kinky.
But is that really necessary..? Can't Loroi form a mental bond telepathically without touching...?
I know the bandwidth is greater in physical contact but a mind-link is still possible at very close range right, even if not touching?
It probably would be wise for the Loroi to pave the first/last bit of their runways with something heat-resistant to facilitate thruster-assisted landings for heavily-loaded vehicles. Once they're achieved gear-down, they should be able to eliminate the lift-assistance.Mr Bojangles wrote:Assuming the runway is made of tarmac, that could be a risk (the Loroi may not use hydrocarbon-based surfacers). But, the shuttle wouldn't necessarily need to use the thrusters all the way till contact. Just long enough to bleed enough speed that it doesn't hit the ground as hard.
Which is real nice for the ship itself, but I strongly doubt that's going to be enough to save the landing gear (and anything that happens to be located directly above that gear) from the forces involved. If the gear can't handle the stress without the dampers, then find some different gear.Mr Bojangles wrote:Another thought - the HIghland has inertial dampening. That could potentially be used to absorb some or all of the impact force. Dampening is for both the occupants and the ship itself.
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Now I want to make an SRB-powered giant washing machine in Kerbal Space Program. Thanks, Arioch.Arioch wrote:You can land a washing machine on a runway if you're got enough airspeed; it's just a question of how long a runway you have to work with.
Entirely a fair point. Although using downward thrust in combination with forward aerodynamics can make things get a bit squirrely, that should be nothing that a pilot with the Badass tag like Jebediah KermanTalon couldn't compensate for, let alone a good flight computer.If you have thrusters that allow you make a VTOL landing, then surely you can use them to reduce vertical velocity without reducing airspeed. How much fuel you want to spend on the maneuvering thrusters during landing is, I guess, a function of how short your runway is.
Actually, non-pnumatic tires (AKA airless tires,) don't need any particularly exotic materials. As was mentioned by icekatze, vulcanized rubber would not be the material of choice, but it probably doesn't need any particularly exotic, Eclipse Phaseian smart-matter or anything.I doubt that it will require exotic materials to make tires that can handle a Highland landing. I doubt we'll actually see them, so I'm not going to worry about it too much at this moment.
Inertial... Amplifiers?On the subject of inertial damping: my internal model for how the ships using Floater Drive (which is the Loroi and most allied ships) is that the internal inertial dampers mainly protect the passengers and sensitive innards of a ship, while the drive itself uses inertial amplifiers to increase the inertia of the propellant as it leaves the engine. Whereas the Umiak Plastron Drive dispenses with the latter element, and produces the same effect by using inertial dampers that reduce the inertia of the entire ship. So while the Loroi can't use their inertial dampers to reduce kinetic impacts, this is something the Umiak can do.
That sounds like a very weaponizable technology.
Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
A group of Loroi can have a pretty intimate telepathic convo without touching. The physical link turns that bandwidth up to 11 and is pretty intimate... it's possible to do it with more than one other person at a time, but I think that would be pretty bewildering. Like trying to make out with 7 people at once. Possible... but practical?Absalom wrote:I believe that sanzai==mind link.sunphoenix wrote:So... {lol}.. if four were holding hands in a circle the only way for the two separated pairs would be linked is if they all kissed in the center? kinky.
But is that really necessary..? Can't Loroi form a mental bond telepathically without touching...?
I know the bandwidth is greater in physical contact but a mind-link is still possible at very close range right, even if not touching?
Loroi have similar need for sleep as humans. It's the Umiak who can go for extended periods with little or no sleep.ShadowDragon8685 wrote:How much do Loroi sleep?
This is a silly question. I feel like I've read somewhere that they only need about two hours of sleep in a day, but I've searched the Insider high and low and I can't seem to find any mention of it. The Insider search function isn't being very useful. Have I imagined that?
The Insider search function only searches HTML files on my website; it can't access the forum database. You have to do a separate search on the forums, unfortunately.
Note to self: make Talon & Spiral KSP pilot icons...ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Now I want to make an SRB-powered giant washing machine in Kerbal Space Program. Thanks, Arioch.
As with many such weapons, the issue is range. If you can entice an enemy into your drive plume, yes... very dangerous. But that would be a neat trick at Outsider combat ranges.ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Inertial... Amplifiers? That sounds like a very weaponizable technology.
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Kinky. (I expect three might be reasonably practical.)Arioch wrote:A group of Loroi can have a pretty intimate telepathic convo without touching. The physical link turns that bandwidth up to 11 and is pretty intimate... it's possible to do it with more than one other person at a time, but I think that would be pretty bewildering. Like trying to make out with 7 people at once. Possible... but practical?
Ah! I must have been misremembering. I did also try to do a forum search, but I just found a lot of nonrelated mentions of the words sleep and hours.Arioch wrote:Loroi have similar need for sleep as humans. It's the Umiak who can go for extended periods with little or no sleep.
The Insider search function only searches HTML files on my website; it can't access the forum database. You have to do a separate search on the forums, unfortunately.
Have some inspiring music for that noble endeavor.Arioch wrote:Note to self: make Talon & Spiral KSP pilot icons...ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Now I want to make an SRB-powered giant washing machine in Kerbal Space Program. Thanks, Arioch.
... Man, that would actually be great - spoof the Bill, Bob and Jebediah "Horrified, panicked, having the time of his life" capsule image with Spiral, Alex and Talon, respectively.
In no sci-fi setting I am aware of is the Kzinti Lesson untrue. The trick is, as you say, getting the enemy into the right position to make use of it.Arioch wrote:As with many such weapons, the issue is range. If you can entice an enemy into your drive plume, yes... very dangerous. But that would be a neat trick at Outsider combat ranges.ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Inertial... Amplifiers? That sounds like a very weaponizable technology.
Of course, if you have sufficient time to play around in someone's star system, you can hurl a rock the size of Ceres at them. If you escort it in, they basically have two options, both of which suck: deal with the rock, or deal with the fleet around it.
I was more thinking of "inertial amplifier" meaning "increases the velocity of this thing" and thinking "man, that would be pretty boss to put on the end of a missile tube."
Last edited by ShadowDragon8685 on Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
<Talon> “And besides — it works in Kerbal Space Program!” *shot multiple times, then spaced*Arioch wrote:Note to self: make Talon & Spiral KSP pilot icons...ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Now I want to make an SRB-powered giant washing machine in Kerbal Space Program. Thanks, Arioch.
Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Also, I apologize in advance if this is too much to ask, but would it be possible to get a version of page 45, panel 1, without the narration or sound effect overlaid thereupon?
e: 2300 POSTS WOOOOOOOOOOOO
e: 2300 POSTS WOOOOOOOOOOOO