The Astronomy Thread

Discussion regarding the Outsider webcomic, science, technology and science fiction.

Moderator: Outsider Moderators

Nemo
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:04 am

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by Nemo »

So, a variety of news outlets are reporting that plankton was found on the exterior of the ISS. The money shot:
Mr Solovyev was uncertain "how these microscopic particles could have appeared on the surface of the space station", adding that the organisms were not typical for Baikanour in Kazakhstan, from where the space station lifted off.

"Plankton in these stages of development could be found on the surface of the oceans.

"This is not typical for Baikonur. It means that there are some uplifting air currents which reach the station and settle on its surface,"

Le wut? Ok, I'll buy exoatmospheric air currents, sure, but connecting them to plankton on the ISS? Rather than contamination by a visiting vessel (Shuttle comes to mind) or space walk? Can anyone source this better than these random news stories that are popping up?

User avatar
icekatze
Posts: 1399
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Contact:

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

Honestly, it isn't surprising to me. Back in 2013, there was a big surprise for climate scientists when a group of scientists taking rarified air samples in the upper troposphere discovered a significant percentage of bacteria and fungus in their samples.

Since the ISS interacts with the atmosphere on a regular basis, it is hardly outside the realm of possibility.

User avatar
Arioch
Site Admin
Posts: 4593
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:19 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by Arioch »

It still seems more likely that it was contamination from a supply vehicle.

Nemo
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:04 am

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by Nemo »

See, that would have been my guess too. I'm wondering if someone translating from Russian to English, or from science to "press", made a mistake or embellished something along the way. I recall there are some European readers poking around, hoping someone has something closer to the source.


Honestly, it isn't surprising to me. Back in 2013, there was a big surprise for climate scientists when a group of scientists taking rarified air samples in the upper troposphere discovered a significant percentage of bacteria and fungus in their samples.
Troposphere goes up to what, little less than 20km? We've known bacteria and such get up to the stratosphere since... I dunno to be honest. I remember watching Nova or something on PBS back in the '80s talking about high-altitude low-level life beyond the reach of Everest. Showed them capturing samples in big air filters hanging from balloons and what have you. They found new ones more recently in 2009, I remember that.

The ISS has a periapsis over 400km, well out of the troposphere, past the stratosphere, beyond the mesosphere, and into the thermosphere.

User avatar
icekatze
Posts: 1399
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Contact:

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

Contamination by a supply vehicle is certainly a strong possibility, but I still wouldn't rule out atmospheric lift. Atmospheric lift has supported a 4188.7cm^3 object to an altitude with an average pressure of 1 mbar. I know things get more complicated mathematically as you go up, but at first glance, it seems at least possible that a 9.0e-19cm^3 particle could be lifted to an altitude with an average pressure of 1.4e-17 mbar.

Suederwind
Posts: 772
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by Suederwind »

Hm... The only news I did read about this discovery, was in the german newspaper "Der Spiegel": http://m.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/weltall/a-986833.html
There is nothing more about it there, expect that they discovered those microorganisms last year.
Forum RP: Cydonia Rising
[RP]Cydonia Rising [IC]

User avatar
Arioch
Site Admin
Posts: 4593
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:19 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by Arioch »

NASA spokesman Dan Huot: "As far as we're concerned, we haven't heard any official reports from our Roscosmos colleagues that they've found sea plankton. The Russians did take samples from one of the windows on the Russian segment, and what they're actually looking for is residues that can build up on the visually sensitive elements, like windows, as well as just the hull of the ship itself that will build up whenever they do thruster firings for things like re-boosts. That's what they were taking samples for. I don't know where all the sea plankton talk is coming from."

Nemo
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:04 am

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by Nemo »

I was once told that when dealing with the Russians, "Doveryai, no proveryai." Seems apt as always. Thanks, Arioch.

User avatar
icekatze
Posts: 1399
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Contact:

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

This was news months ago, but I only just heard about it today.

Astronomers discover strong Thorne-Zytkow Object candidate

I didn't even know what a Thorne-Zytkow Object was until now, but it is what you get when a neutron star is enveloped by another star. In this case, it looks like a neutron star was dragged into a companion when it expanded to become a giant.

User avatar
Arioch
Site Admin
Posts: 4593
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:19 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by Arioch »

Strange. You would think that a neutron star plunging into the core of a red supergiant would either cause the supergiant to explode or collapse... having a neutron star at your core seems like it should either shut down fusion or cause it to run amok.

User avatar
RedDwarfIV
Posts: 400
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:22 am

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by RedDwarfIV »

Eh... neutron stars are very dense, but as it said in the article, they're a lot less massive than red supergiants. I wouldn't be surprised if it caused some weirdness, but I wouldn't say it'd be most likely to do that.

They have a mass several times that of the Sun. A red supergiant will have more than ten solar masses.
If every cloud had a silver lining, there would be a lot more plane crashes.

User avatar
Arioch
Site Admin
Posts: 4593
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:19 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by Arioch »

Yeah, but I'm sayin'... you're putting a huge mass of superdense non-compressible, non-fissionable material at the core of a star that's already running on fumes. The impact alone might cause a supernova-sized explosion, but if not, you've now got a giant neutron sitting at your core.

User avatar
icekatze
Posts: 1399
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Contact:

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

Here's some more specific, in depth information on how the process works, in a format clearly made by a scientist and not a graphic designer. (Yellow text on a black background? ouch!)

Science is math!

User avatar
Arioch
Site Admin
Posts: 4593
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:19 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by Arioch »

ALMA radio telescope image of the protoplanetary disk around HL Tauri:

Image

The gaps in the disk are, presumably, planetesimals. And since the star is only about a million years old, they formed very quickly.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html

User avatar
GeoModder
Posts: 1043
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:31 pm

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by GeoModder »

Arioch wrote:ALMA radio telescope image of the protoplanetary disk around HL Tauri:
Is that an Outsider Insider hint? A Soia object? ;)
Image

User avatar
Smithy
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:10 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by Smithy »

Only 10 minutes till "landing" of the 7 hour descent... fingers crossed!


Image

Karst45
Posts: 785
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:03 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada
Contact:

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by Karst45 »

i heard they had problem with the harpoon that was supposed to secure the probe on the comet. did they fix that?

Nemo
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:04 am

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by Nemo »

Apparently, no. Last I read the probe had bounced a few times on landing and wound up more than a kilometer out of position and possibly on its side in a crater. Its not getting enough sunlight to sustain operations where it is at, so its on borrowed time. In the position its in, they can't use the drill either.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-30034060
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... /18956763/

Karst45
Posts: 785
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:03 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada
Contact:

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by Karst45 »

cant they move it again?

Nemo
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:04 am

Re: The Astronomy Thread

Post by Nemo »

The only thruster I am aware of that on the descent vehicle was actually a thruster designed to drive it into the comet to help negate bounce. That thruster and the harpoon both failed, is what I've seen.

Post Reply