Outsider opening

[Arioch]

In the original chain of series and movies, the Gamilons eventually become Earth's staunch ally. It's not hard to see the allusion to the shuffling of alliances when WWII gave way to the Cold War.

And yeah, in a series based on the exploits of a rebuilt WWII battleship, it shouldn't be surprising to find many references to WWII.

[Nemo]

References to WW2, atomic weaponry, the Cold War etc abound. At least in the original. My interest has been piked, I'll have to watch the new one. Not soon but eventually.

((Also, Fascists hated Marxism.))

If we are going to have that conversation, and we probably ought not to since politics gets so heated, it really ought to go in a separate thread at least. But Fascism is a denomination of Marxist ideology, something akin to Sunni and Shia Islam or Catholic and Protestant Christianity of old.


Hitler Speaks
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=ZIEOAAAAQAAJ :

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“The party takes over the function of what has been society—that is what I wanted them to understand. The party is all-embracing. It rules our lives in all their breadth and depth. We must therefore develop branches of the party in which the whole of individual life will be reflected. Each activity and each need of the individual will thereby be regulated by the party as the representative of the general good. There will be no licence, no free space, in which the individual belongs to himself. This is Socialism—not such trifles as the private possession of the means of production. Of what importance is that if I range men firmly within a discipline they cannot escape? Let them then own land or factories as much as they please. The decisive factor is that the State, through the party, is supreme over them, regardless whether they are owners or workers. All that, you see, is unessential. Our Socialism goes far deeper. It does not alter external conditions; no, it establishes the relation of the individual to the State, the national community. It does this with the help of one party, or perhaps I should say of one order.

Why bother with such half-measures when I have far more important matters in hand, such as the people themselves?” he exclaimed. “The masses always cling to extremes. After all, what is meant by nationalization, by socialization? What has been changed by the fact that a factory is now owned by the State instead of by a Mr. Smith? But once directors and employees alike have been subjected to a universal discipline, there will be a new order for which all expressions used hitherto will be quite inadequate.”

Endlösung der Judenfrage itself is the Final Solution to the Jewish Question. That is, Karl Marx's Zur Judenfrage, On the Jewish Question. Marx draws the source of capitalism to Jewry and there to Judaism. Marx and Engels called for revolution and genocide in their works, not directed at Jews mind you but at those deemed two steps or more behind the cusp. That those unable to go through the revolution as an equal must be disposed of. See Der magyarische Kampf, 1849.


The reason they separated themselves from the Socialists, Communists, and all other groups, was to establish themselves as the sole arbiters of truth and power. But they do exist in that same realm of political thought, which in truth predates Marx by centuries at the least. The first modern writer to establish a political order in that manner that I am aware of would have been Hobbes in Leviathan. Marx just provides a convenient villain for the woes of the lower classes other than Leviathan itself. Under no circumstances can they be categorized along with the Classic Liberals such as Locke, Jefferson, Tocqueville, or Bastiat.

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[icekatze]

hi hi

Thanks for citing your sources, Nemo. I went and read them in their entirety, and found them to be, for the most part, misconstrued. If in the interest of civility you don't want to read my findings, I will put them behind a spoiler, and we can just leave it at that if you'd like.

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Marx was certainly racist, as many philosophers were in that time period, but there doesn't appear to be anything unique to him in inventing it, and modern antisemitism has its roots going as far back as the Greeks and Roman Empire, who the Nazis actually did try to emulate. It doesn't seem that the Nazi final solution was any more attributable to Marx than the American Civil War was to Jefferson, who was himself a belligerent racist who thought that blacks were “inferior to the whites in the endowments of body and mind.”

"The main plank in the Nationalist Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute for them the folk community, rooted in the soil and bound together by the bond of its common blood." - Adolph Hitler

In The Magyar Struggle, Engel makes no assertions about committing genocide. It is a blatant propaganda piece whose predictions turned out quite inaccurate, but the vast majority of the body text is a historical analysis. Jews are only mentioned once, in connection with Saxons in Transylvania, and are basically dismissed as trivial. The entire piece focuses on the Slavic people and their confrontation with Germans and Magyars. I can see how people might think it is talking about genocide, if you take certain sentences out of context, but when Engel is talking about a certain people being destined to fall, he is talking from a historical perspective about events that have irreversibly already happened, not a future prescription for something different other than a continuation of what was observed previously.

The Jewish Question was largely a critique of another work by a man named Bruno Bauer, but it is an atheistic piece that spends most of its time arguing for the separation of church and state, in all religions and all states worldwide. Denying that The Jewish Question that Bauer discusses, the question being "should Jews be emancipated from the Christian state?" Is a contradictory question, and that the real question should be, "should all mankind be emancipated from religion?" As a proponent of atheism, it is pretty clear that Marx's answer is yes.

Honestly, Marx's The Capacity of Present-day Jews and Christians to Become Free is much more damning, as a piece of antisemitic literature, on account of its perpetuation of racist stereotypes, but even that was under the premise of separating secular institutions from religious institutions, and really only seems to be founded on already existing stereotypes of the time.

I suppose that is one thing I can say about Marx. He had a knack for criticizing the writings of others, but he was never any good at proposing his own alternative.

[Hālian]

How did we go from a pretty nifty video to talking about politics.

Have none of you ever heard about staying on topic.

[discord]

carl: i have heard of the concept, but i find it..... lacking and unrealistic.

[Hālian]

It may be unrealistic, but it's necessary.

[NOMAD]

It may be unrealistic, but it's necessary.

sry buddy, not on this forum. you must follow the current or forever be dashed upon the asteroids of doom

but from time to time, a section of a forum is made into a separate topic. so the chaos isn't extensive

[CrimsonFALKE]

Okay who is that female Gamilon?

Her name is Melda Dietz; she's a Gamilon fighter pilot. If you recall from the original series first season, the Yamato crew captured and interrogated a Gamilon pilot, and were surprised and shocked to learn that Gamilons were essentially human. In the new series, Melda is that Gamilon pilot.

Christ she is so like my Serkins

[Hālian]

This forum needs an [simg] tag so large images can be posted without breaking tables and eyeballs.

[CrimsonFALKE]

This forum needs an [simg] tag so large images can be posted without breaking tables and eyeballs.

I honestly did my best to keep it from appearing in full size.

[Hālian]

When in doubt, link, don't embed.

[CrimsonFALKE]

I can't please everyone