[Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

[Bamax]

Two videos I have found that may prove useful.

The first is a screenwriting video but it still holds true for writers.



Fast forward to Actions Define Character at 22:38

A second video backs it up. Note what Major Kira says about judging people.

[Bamax]

And if you really find the first vid helpful there are programs to download it (youtube-dl for PC or various mobile phone apps).

[Cthulhu]

The Umiak are highly problematic to write. There is not enough lore, background cultural information and most importantly, examples. The Stray is, unfortunately, an odd exception and can't really serve as a basis for what constitutes a normal Umiak. Therefore, inventing their background settings and characters will be an order of magnitude more difficult than what I intended, since I'd need to fill in too many blanks. This fanfic is an exercise, with a careful balance of challenge and envisioned difficulty level in order to produce a chapter weekly. I tried to test what an Umiak template would amount to, but based on Arioch's settings, they are too much of a "faceless villains" yet. Perhaps we'll see more of them in the new pages, once they are colored, that is.

Creating more decidedly non-humanoid characters, complete with personality and everything else, would require too much time, and I still have my full-time job, you know? Anyway, I'll see what I can do, and place more emphasis on character interactions.

The screenwriter's lessons were very useful, but I don't consider DS9 in general to be worthy of a lesson. The show was entertaining, yes, but not truly enlightening s far as sci-fi goes. I'd take Babylon 5 over that, or other Star Trek shows, any time.

P.S. Also, what do you consider a filler, the latest chapter (26) or the Intermission (M)? If you mean the latter, then it was primarily focused on introducing the "Mysterious Device" and various pieces of foreshadowing, with some reactions from the Commander. He (it) is also not repetitive, but merely pedantic (even for an Umiak).

[Bamax]

Actions define character. Not the other way around. According to Richard Walter using character sheets is the WRONG way to make a character.

Just look at their actions and that tells you what they are. Even in life on job interviews they ask you about your prior acomplishments (actions), not how you felt about them nor what you thought you achieved but what you actually did.

Actions speak louder than words. Lack of action or not doing certain things also speaks just as loudly.

Who we are and what we actually are not always the same, and Dukat is a perfect example (thus the DS9 video).

Gul Dukat does not see himself the villain, but his actions show otherwise... and later in the series (Waltz episode) even he realizes he is and embraces it.

[Bamax]

If nothing else, try using 'actions define character' for the Umiak characters BECAUSE you lack character sheets on them.

Military Umiak are gene modded to be humble so that is inherent. If one is prideful they had better hide it since they will be in trouble if found out.

It would be glitch in their system as it were. A mistake.

[Bamax]

Here is another vid that may prove helpul from the creator of that show you know.... the creator of Babylon 5.

[Bamax]

And although you gave yourself a weekly uodate schedule you can change it to bi-weekly and I would not mind at all... especially if tge writing quality went up in the weak parts.

Look how long Arioch waits lol... but when he releases it is not like anything Dave Barrack does lol.

It's better. Worth the wait.

[Bamax]

Actions definining character tells you who and what a character is but not why.

The why is the fun part where creativity reigns, but it is not as important as who or what they are.

Example? If you are facing a killer in an isolated place I know you will be far more concerned with the fact that he is a killer than WHY he is one lol.

[Cthulhu]

What I meant by character settings is the way that a person thinks and acts should translate to specific speech patterns. For an alien, and especially a non-humanoid one, the difficulty goes up significantly. Even the "closely-related" Loroi are a bit special. Let me explain this problem in detail.

Sanzai is not exactly thought reading or sharing, the sender composes each message consciously. However, due to the telepathic means of communication, such a message has a much higher degree of precision, complexity and bandwidth than speech. Various additional information is always included as well, parts of it even subconsciously, and I'm simplifying it to a great degree already. Otherwise, it would overwhelm the readers with unnecessary information. An example:

Telepathic communication is direct and literal, and contains a lot of ancillary information. It's not a medium that lends itself well to abstraction or artfulness. A spoken message might say:

"There is something rotten in the state of Denmark."

But the telepathic equivalent might be something like:

"Ophelia told me during our lunch yesterday that when she visited the court of Denmark the week before on a business trip that she didn't enjoy, that she felt that something was wrong within the royal family, but she wasn't specific and frankly I never liked her or trusted her opinion, and I'm in a bad mood right now."

Imagine if I would write every sanzai line in this way? Instead, I'm merely including some additional comments on their sending tone as to hint at the depth of the ancillary information. Besides, since the Loroi are quite close to us, we can understand most of it from the context, like their emotional state and so on. This way, telepathic communication is given a distinct flavor without making it too hard (or weird) to read.


Now, to the Umiak. The "bugs" have a unique way of thinking and speaking, namely, the stack. Conveying that logic in the form of a native dialogue would be utterly confusing, and I haven't found a good way to simplify it without losing that uniqueness. Also, I don't even have an example of what it should look like, beyond some machine-translated bits. That's not really an issue of shifting to bi-weekly updates, it would require a lengthy hiatus to invent the necessary patterns, essentially from scratch. I'll do everything for love my readers, but I won't do that.

Therefore, at least for this fanfic, the Umiak will be mostly told about in the third person, or they will ponder things in a first-person inner monologue of sorts. It's not perfect, and this form won't allow for lengthy exchanges, so that's why I'm confining that to the shorter Intermissions. Of course, I could have them speak in a more common way, but what's the point of de-alienating the aliens? What I can do, however, is to try and add some more depth to the interactions between them. While it was never intended, there might be a way to adapt something.

[Bamax]

I see... what you can still do is mention how they are using the 'stack conversation' and focus on the clicks and gestures they make between each other.

Since it is obvious some like to be overly complex just to challenge another Umiak's precision (another quality tyey value).

Since to do it .. the languafe would be boring ans repetitive.

Even so I reckon the Umiak REALLY dumb down what they mean when talking to Loroi or anyone else.

I did find it entertaining the dialogue ship communication several chapters back though.

I read the Umiak article.... they vaue more than modesty so you have a lot to play around with, since as individuals some may be better at certain traits than others, even if they all value them.

Suffice to say that yeah... Umiak DO enjoy challenging each other. Though the intent as always would be for the 'greater good'.

I would expect the more competent commanders to be utter slae drivers who nonetheless are profoudly polite.

Think of an American slave owner who is polite and not disrepectful but still works his slaves hard and you have your Umiak command.

[Cthulhu]

I see... what you can still do is mention how they are using the 'stack conversation' and focus on the clicks and gestures they make between each other.

I already did something of the sort in the latest intermission.

Since it is obvious some like to be overly complex just to challenge another Umiak's precision (another quality tyey value).

Since to do it .. the languafe would be boring ans repetitive.

According to the Insider article, they do not enjoy showing off, but instead, to demonstrate the skill deficiency of the conversational partner by overwhelming them with references.

Even so I reckon the Umiak REALLY dumb down what they mean when talking to Loroi or anyone else.

I did find it entertaining the dialogue ship communication several chapters back though.

The automatic translation system is quite interesting, I'd recon that it needs to recompile whatever the Umiak are saying completely. Basically, the stack-based language means that every conversational partner could make a reference to something that anyone of them added to said stack, anytime during the entire conversation. The problem is inserting that into the back-and-forth of a dialogue, where the other side is using a language with a radically different logic.

I read the Umiak article.... they vaue more than modesty so you have a lot to play around with, since as individuals some may be better at certain traits than others, even if they all value them.

Suffice to say that yeah... Umiak DO enjoy challenging each other. Though the intent as always would be for the 'greater good'.

I would expect the more competent commanders to be utter slae drivers who nonetheless are profoudly polite.

Think of an American slave owner who is polite and not disrepectful but still works his slaves hard and you have your Umiak command.

I think that your example is way off, unfortunately. Slaves must be driven on by their master, yet the Umiak actually desire to work hard. Their competition mechanic is not just to outperform everyone, but to strive to be the best possible cog in the machine.

-EDIT-
I'll try to attempt something, but even their thought patterns are too weird. Going through my notes, no matter what I tried, it would turn out to be either too repetitive or too confusing, but in the most cases, both. Which means that I'd have to invent a good simplification procedure, and then introduce that carefully as to give the readers enough time to adapt to it. But this would either bloat up the fanfic to the size of a complete novel, or require me to focus on the Umiak instead. Hmm, maybe I should do that for the next fanfic.

[Bamax]

I see... what you can still do is mention how they are using the 'stack conversation' and focus on the clicks and gestures they make between each other.

I already did something of the sort in the latest intermission.

Since it is obvious some like to be overly complex just to challenge another Umiak's precision (another quality tyey value).

Since to do it .. the languafe would be boring ans repetitive.

According to the Insider article, they do not enjoy showing off, but instead, to demonstrate the skill deficiency of the conversational partner by overwhelming them with references.

Even so I reckon the Umiak REALLY dumb down what they mean when talking to Loroi or anyone else.

I did find it entertaining the dialogue ship communication several chapters back though.

The automatic translation system is quite interesting, I'd recon that it needs to recompile whatever the Umiak are saying completely. Basically, the stack-based language means that every conversational partner could make a reference to something that anyone of them added to said stack, anytime during the entire conversation. The problem is inserting that into the back-and-forth of a dialogue, where the other side is using a language with a radically different logic.

I read the Umiak article.... they vaue more than modesty so you have a lot to play around with, since as individuals some may be better at certain traits than others, even if they all value them.

Suffice to say that yeah... Umiak DO enjoy challenging each other. Though the intent as always would be for the 'greater good'.

I would expect the more competent commanders to be utter slae drivers who nonetheless are profoudly polite.

Think of an American slave owner who is polite and not disrepectful but still works his slaves hard and you have your Umiak command.

I think that your example is way off, unfortunately. Slaves must be driven on by their master, yet the Umiak actually desire to work hard. Their competition mechanic is not just to outperform everyone, but to strive to be the best possible cog in the machine.

-EDIT-
I'll try to attempt something, but even their thought patterns are too weird. Going through my notes, no matter what I tried, it would turn out to be either too repetitive or too confusing, but in the most cases, both. Which means that I'd have to invent a good simplification procedure, and then introduce that carefully as to give the readers enough time to adapt to it. But this would either bloat up the fanfic to the size of a complete novel, or require me to focus on the Umiak instead. Hmm, maybe I should do that for the next fanfic.

What thought pattern? How is it complex? I saw no mention of it in the Extras section.

The values if the Umiak we CAN understand and relate to... so that you CAN work with.

Logic, precision, modesty, may be one one or two more I forgot to mention.

[Bamax]

Here is another well acted scene.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=opbi7d42s8E


Javier Bardem is a merciless hitman.



But one thing he has in common with Richard Walter's ideas on characters is that he only deals in facts.

"You married into it."

"I guess that's one way of putting it."

"No. That's just how it is."

He deals in facts... and could care less about subjectivity. Not saying all Umiak are that way, but I reckon some definitely are and see subjective feelings as a weakness.

The truth is more.... it just depends.

There no doubt are more emotional Umiak and more cold and blunt ones too.

[Krulle]

SpoilerShow

Two minor observations, the second one I am not sure if it is actually an English expression, in which case please ignore the proposal...:

Chapter XXVII: Evacuation

[...]

“Certainly, the team’s size can be doubled, then.” he reciprocated that smile, “I’m honoured by the thrust trust you’ve placed in me, Soshret Lightspear. We shall not disappoint. My ship’s cargo bays are empty right now, and despite its size, the Charon can be very fast.”

[...]


“The others are boarding a second shuttle on deck 20 as per schedule.” The Mizol was checking the cargo list on the ramp’s console, “I’m overseeing the operation here. It seems that you compiled a throughout thorough (?) list, but do we really need so much food?”

[...]

Nice.
I am curious to what the "surprise" will be, and if the Umiak are able to counter it, since they know the humans can repurpose Jumpfield generators for RealSpace QuickTravel, and yet jump nearly immediately afterwards.


I like the characters, and I don't mind a slower pace for some parts of the story anyway.
It's what I've been missing in the LotR-films.
All that "were just travelling for days, and nothing is happening".
And Tom Bombadil, although I could've done without him in the books too.

[Cthulhu]

What thought pattern? How is it complex? I saw no mention of it in the Extras section.

The values if the Umiak we CAN understand and relate to... so that you CAN work with.

Logic, precision, modesty, may be one one or two more I forgot to mention.

The short version is that the language reflects the way a person thinks. In the case of an alien with such an exotic language structure, it should have an equally strange thought patterns, far more complex than a few keywords. Otherwise, we'll drop down to the "rubber-forehead alien of the week" level of writing that Star Trek is infamous for, where they take a single facet of human psychology and develop that into an entire alien race.

Now, to the details.

1. Psychology:
We do have some information about how they think.
As individuals, Umiak are said to be exceedingly polite and well-mannered, overflowing with humility and zeal for the common welfare.
This is rather easy to write, albeit it can be a bit boring. The only difficulty is to integrate their unique thought patterns into the inner monologue bits. The bigger problem is the next part:
As a group, the Umiak are paranoid, intolerant, aggressive and despotic.
Somehow, there is a certain part in their psyche that leads to this unexpected outcome, but there's little information on what it actually is. Perhaps the deep-seated feeling of inferiority due to being the less successful subspecies? Who knows.

2. Society:
Again, there is some general information.
Umiak philosophy emphasizes duty, toil, modesty, self-sufficiency, patience, frugality, charity and the subordination of the self to the greater whole.
What I would need, however, is more data about how their society is structured. What does friendship mean to them and how is it expressed? What rank structure do they have? Maybe even what their governmental structures are?

3. Interaction.
Now, that is the crux of the matter. The previous parts merely require more world-building efforts in order to close the gaps that I mentioned above. But with interactions, comes the dialogue.
Umiak language involves the use of a “stack”; that is, words are delivered out of order to add complex meaning and dramatic emotional overtone. For example, a word or phrase can be spoken, placed on the “stack,” and then not referred to again until later in the conversation. This further increases the incomprehensible nature of the language to non-Umiak.
I haven't yet found a good way to represent this "stack" in an understandable way, but still retain the distinct flavor of this fascinating means of communication. Without that, those interactions would require the abstraction level of a third-person point of view, and that format is usually very bulky and awkward.

[Cthulhu]

SpoilerShow

blargh

Thanks, I'll correct both parts

Nice.

I am curious to what the "surprise" will be,

Well, maybe a different spoof? Or the Humans will conduct a blood sacrifice to summon me?

and if the Umiak are able to counter it, since they know the humans can repurpose Jumpfield generators for RealSpace QuickTravel, and yet jump nearly immediately afterwards.

Hmm, that device from the latest intermission might have other, maddening functions.

I like the characters, and I don't mind a slower pace for some parts of the story anyway.
It's what I've been missing in the LotR-films.
All that "were just travelling for days, and nothing is happening".

That is also one of the reasons why I gave the humans a faster drive system. Otherwise, the poor protagonist would have to spend weeks onboard. In the comic, this part was simply skipped by tossing Alex into the brig, but I didn't want to be that cruel.

And Tom Bombadil, although I could've done without him in the books too.

Aww, I wanted to give him a cameo and perhaps even a better background story.

[Krulle]

TY for the analysis of Tom Bombadil.
Very interesting, and quite some astute observations and conclusions.

Would have to re-read the passages to see.

AFAIRemember, Tolkien never intended Tom Bombadil to be "evil", just a merry out-of-place character, like many old tales have something out of place in their tale.
Something actually better suited for the There And Back Again story, but hey. There are more than a few inconsistencies in the universe created by JRR Tolkien. It's his story. I can ignore what I don't like.
Ultimately, TBombadil doesn't have much influence on the story. Just showing that long travels were rich with perils before the state powers secured the roads with the money collected from taxes.

[Cthulhu]

Yes, while that theory is certainly amusing, I do not take it too seriously.

Just showing that long travels were rich with perils before the state powers secured the roads with the money collected from taxes.

Sometimes, those state powers were the perils instead...

[Krulle]

I don't consider "feudal lords" anywhere being a state.
They were all about personal enrichment in the time they had until they attracted the attention of the upper power levels...

Once the "central government" was able to push through, it got better.
Mind, it did never become fully safe, as some of those central governments were dangerous, especially for any "perceived danger", and they were often not squeamish to punish anyone living there, and not just the "baron"... ("clan liability")

And actually your linked article shows it too, as it refers to the lack of central government during the Great Interregnum and its explosion of "toll stations"....

[Cthulhu]

Frankly, the Holy Roman Empire was the very epitome of the "lack of a central authority".

I've just remembered that bit, since one of the campaigns that I DM'ed involved dealing with such a lord.