Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[Snoofman]

Yes... was even considered to be made IRL I read online once by NASA. Non-armed of course.


What stopped them? Likely the lack of a need for such maneuverability in the first place. We are not at war in space. And neither would manned spacefighters be practical with our level of space tech now.

Unless you can pull off high g burns Loroi style in excess... chances are a space fighter cannot dodge for long before either running out of fuel or getting one-shotted or mission killed via a disabling shot.

Yeah. As entertaining as sci-fi anime and high-skilled maneuvers are, it seems awfully is excessive as well as very impractical (overlooking the magic power source they seem to possess). Plus dodging seems pretty non practical as well as tough in space. Piloting my spacecraft in "Asteroids" was tough enough.

Why spend time dodging when you can pimp up your ride with laser tech or high-precision turrets to shoot down incoming missiles? Or, if we ever get that far, plasma shielding. Or even just adding on layers of physical shielding to absorb and slow the impact of projectiles that can be replaced when your ship docks for repairs. Sure it may be bulky, but in space that doesn't seem to be a problem provided the pilot(s) and crew have the right instrumentality and sufficient power to move such an object. Ever watch those fire-test videos where firearm experts/enthusiasts test the strength of bullets or cannon shots through several layers of armor plating?

[gaerzi]

What I wanted to know is, do spaceships fly newtonian style? Airplane style? Or both? As in elite dangerous?

Airplanes are entirely defined by aerodynamics. Like it's in their name: they're a plane (as in, a geometrically mostly flat object) that moves in the air. They may stall if they don't move fast enough. The third dimension is limited, you can only move down so far before you crash, and so far up before you lose thrust and lift. Energy management in an airplane means that you can trade speed for altitude and vice-versa.

All of that stuff is irrelevant in space. It's possible that some game artificially bring some characteristics of atmospheric flight to space flight just out of convenience (being able to reuse the sim model from a conventional flight sim? just going with what the player is already familiar with?) or for its more cinematic aspect (the original Star Wars movies being a prime example of this, with their WW2-style dogfights and also WW2-style trench raid straight out of the Dambusters), but other than gamification and spectacle, there's no reason to have airplane-style movement in space.

It is one of the things that annoys me about cinematic space combat scenes. The pilots in BSG (either version) never seemed to pull out ahead of their cylon pursuers, spin around, and slag 'em. No, instead they had to bank, turn, do immelmanns and barrel-rolls in a vain effort to shake their pursuers off their tails, only to have some hero get off a lucky hot from the sidelines and save the day.

Yep, WW2 dogfighting.

Real space combat would probably be very boring, from a dramatic standpoint. Spacecraft so far away from each other that they are mutually invisible to the naked eye fire laser beams at each others, beams that are also invisible because that's the entire point of lasers, the light is coherent and doesn't disperse into every direction so some of it can reach the camera. At some point one of the dueling ships is destroyed, creating an explosion so distant it's barely visible from the other ship.

I did kind of like the duels in Elite 2: Frontier with its purely Newtonian physics. The inertia means that you cross the enemy ship very quick and then end up out of reach, so you have to turn around and accelerate the other way, while it does the same thing. So as you are accelerating towards each other again, eventually you close the distance and same thing, you're carried away out of weapon range very quickly.

[Mithramuse]

Real space combat would probably be very boring, from a dramatic standpoint. Spacecraft so far away from each other that they are mutually invisible to the naked eye fire laser beams at each others, beams that are also invisible because that's the entire point of lasers, the light is coherent and doesn't disperse into every direction so some of it can reach the camera. At some point one of the dueling ships is destroyed, creating an explosion so distant it's barely visible from the other ship.

More like Das Boot, perhaps... or probably more modern sub warfare, since ranges were short back then. There was a Dragon Magazine story from way back, as I recall... lessee... issue 102, hah. "Passing in the Night" by Rob Chilson; in https://annarchive.com/files/Drmg102.pdf or other similar archives.

--Mithramuse

[Keklas Rekobah]

[...] Real space combat would probably be very boring, from a dramatic standpoint.  Spacecraft so far away from each other that they are mutually invisible to the naked eye fire laser beams at each others, beams that are also invisible because that's the entire point of lasers, the light is coherent and doesn't disperse into every direction so some of it can reach the camera.  At some point one of the dueling ships is destroyed, creating an explosion so distant it's barely visible from the other ship. [...]

An explosion that registers only as a flash of light and an expanding debris cloud.  Maybe there would be a spike of RF as power busses break and arc across the gaps, and maybe an incoherent scream on all the comms channels "as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced".

[Demarquis]

Realistic space combat need not be boring, but it requires a change in narrative approach. Ranges are indeed very long, well past eyesight, and the ability to maneuver is consequently not very visual in nature, but tension can be built up by other means. Missiles slowly close in, providing an opportunity to intercept them with defensive fire, enemy ships move slowly along trajectories determined by the local star, but there are still multiple pathways they could choose and so a certain element of uncertainty is retained, there are trade-offs between different weapons that allow for more than one tactical approach, yet neither side necessarily knows what choices the other made. This kind of writing is perhaps more challenging (esp. in a visual medium), but it's not impossible.

[Keklas Rekobah]

↑ The audio effects would be verbal orders and the "pinging" of various equipment, with other sounds produced only when one's own ship is hit, when launching ordnance, or when firing power-hungry DEWs.

Video effects would be flickering lighting (or emergency lighting) and sparks, emergency lighting, and status/tactical displays.

Loss of artificial gravity and/or inertial damping would result in bodies and objects floating or flying around the interior of the vessel.

Death would be near-instantaneous.

[Demarquis]

Right you are. The Expanse series provides some good examples of what you are suggesting. Turns out the interplay between acceleration and zero-gravity is visually interesting.

[Bamax]

Unrealistic though this battle may be, it does illustrate what the Loroi are up against.

Only worse, since unlike the Spartans here, the Umiak would throw their spears into the gun toting soldiers.

Ranged attack, even with unlimited ammo can be overwhelmed... and the Loroi don't have that.

[kyosanim]

Unrealistic though this battle may be, it does illustrate what the Loroi are up against.

Only worse, since unlike the Spartans here, the Umiak would throw their spears into the gun toting soldiers.

Ranged attack, even with unlimited ammo can be overwhelmed... and the Loroi don't have that.

What blew my mind, wasn't the unlimited ammo or that the guns didn't overheated, but that the modern soldiers had their feet glued to the ground.

[Bamax]

Unrealistic though this battle may be, it does illustrate what the Loroi are up against.

Only worse, since unlike the Spartans here, the Umiak would throw their spears into the gun toting soldiers.

Ranged attack, even with unlimited ammo can be overwhelmed... and the Loroi don't have that.

What blew my mind, wasn't the unlimited ammo or that the guns didn't overheated, but that the modern soldiers had their feet glued to the ground.

Hit and run is what Loroi fleets do best it seems. If the modern soldiers could move they would have lasted longer if not actually won. Just split of them individually and do withering fire, and concentrate it whenever ghe swarm closes on any individual.

And if the Loroi had unlimited ammo on their vessels they likely also could and would have won by now.

[Demarquis]

That was the most ridiculous awesome thing I've ever seen.

[Zorg56]

And if the Loroi had unlimited ammo on their vessels they likely also could and would have won by now.

Umiak should have won already if anything.
They field orders of magnitude more resources, they just dont want to use them properly for some reason, which is strange with how supposedly effective and self improvement driven they are.

[Bamax]

And if the Loroi had unlimited ammo on their vessels they likely also could and would have won by now.

Umiak should have won already if anything.
They field orders of magnitude more resources, they just dont want to use them properly for some reason, which is strange with how supposedly effective and self improvement driven they are.

Loroi are not their only enemy and up till now they take disproportional high fleer losses.

Managing an empire as vast as the umiak requires vast resources, but given Loroi and historian lethality, the bugs rarher not leave matters ti chance.

Throwing ships at the Loroi is not enough to win or has not been so far because lethality and farsight.

[Tamri]

Umiak should have won already if anything.
They field orders of magnitude more resources, they just dont want to use them properly for some reason, which is strange with how supposedly effective and self improvement driven they are.

The emphasis on efficiency and the drive for self-improvement can be very different.

You can hone current doctrines and tactics to shine ... or you can develop new ones in accordance with a changing environment.

Hierarchy is clearly good in the first ... and just as clearly disgusting in the second.

Loroi, however, too ... But in principle, they are more flexible and mobile, and they have several trump cards that do not allow you to simply crush them with a mass, at least immediately.

[Snoofman]

Umiak should have won already if anything.
They field orders of magnitude more resources, they just dont want to use them properly for some reason, which is strange with how supposedly effective and self improvement driven they are.

The emphasis on efficiency and the drive for self-improvement can be very different.

You can hone current doctrines and tactics to shine ... or you can develop new ones in accordance with a changing environment.

Hierarchy is clearly good in the first ... and just as clearly disgusting in the second.

Loroi, however, too ... But in principle, they are more flexible and mobile, and they have several trump cards that do not allow you to simply crush them with a mass, at least immediately.

Both make good points. And also just because a nation is a superpower doesn’t mean they are infallible in their decision making. Hierarchy seems best at industry and mass production, but are terrible military strategists. On top of that, like us humans, they most likely have their fair share of incompetent leaders who, despite their Intelligence, make selfish idiotic decisions. Like preaching that everything they do is a personal sacrifice for the good of the whole. And we all know that any politician/boss who ever said such a thing is full of shit!

“Make the Hierarchy great again!”

Plus who’s to say that there are no civil conflicts within Hierarchy territory?

[Bamax]

Umiak should have won already if anything.
They field orders of magnitude more resources, they just dont want to use them properly for some reason, which is strange with how supposedly effective and self improvement driven they are.

The emphasis on efficiency and the drive for self-improvement can be very different.

You can hone current doctrines and tactics to shine ... or you can develop new ones in accordance with a changing environment.

Hierarchy is clearly good in the first ... and just as clearly disgusting in the second.

Loroi, however, too ... But in principle, they are more flexible and mobile, and they have several trump cards that do not allow you to simply crush them with a mass, at least immediately.

Both make good points. And also just because a nation is a superpower doesn’t mean they are infallible in their decision making. Hierarchy seems best at industry and mass production, but are terrible military strategists. On top of that, like us humans, they most likely have their fair share of incompetent leaders who, despite their Intelligence, make selfish idiotic decisions. Like preaching that everything they do is a personal sacrifice for the good of the whole. And we all know that any politician/boss who ever said such a thing is full of shit!

“Make the Hierarchy great again!”

Plus who’s to say that there are no civil conflicts within Hierarchy territory?

Oh I bet there are.

The hierarchy's main enemy is the Loroi, so they have to strike a balance between being total slave drivers and or demanding tribute at a reasonable degree to allow them to still fight the Loroi without having their empire rebel and crumble away.

[Bamax]

Since the most well known meat animal for Loroi is pig-like, I reckon they would easily get used to some good Texas BBQ baby back pork ribs.

Would be an amusing scene to see a bunch of space elves chowing down on BBQ ribs with BBQ sauce all over their faces and and hands.

[Cthulhu]

Since the most well known meat animal for Loroi is pig-like, I reckon they would easily get used to some good Texas BBQ baby back pork ribs.

Would be an amusing scene to see a bunch of space elves chowing down on BBQ ribs with BBQ sauce all over their faces and and hands.

Imagine Tempo returning the favor with a traditional Perrein grill party, eat it before it eats you!

Something like this, except that the Perreinid squid-things are willing and able to kill everyone.

[Keklas Rekobah]

↑ It could not be any worse than anything on a  Klingon Menu .

[Snoofman]

Tell me about it. Anyone here ever see the weird squid thing Worf chows down on in Star Trek TNG?