Writing Prompts

[Werra]

@novius
You're overthinking the tests. There is no need for complicated scenarios. Wait for Alex to fall asleep and then put Beryl and Fblade on a shuttle 5km from Tempest. Then tell Alex orally literally anything. Perhabs couple it with a realsitic fire/emergeny drill with props and smoke. If the two Loroi can't stop themselfes from sending to Enzin even under orders not to, then they're seriously lacking in discipline.

If it is true and the Lotai only activates when somebody else is being mindprobed, then that is a strangely specific instinct. That shouldn't be the case and it's not something the Loroi know beforehand. Hence the need for tests.

And sorry to break this to you, but Alex already is a Gary Stu. Every problem, every challenge set out for him gets solved for him by somebody else, random chance or by him essentially pouting. That needs to change.

If you can't imagine how Alex can -by his own actions- affect the story, that's fine.
He could...
work as well as he can as an advisor. Not deciding any battles on his own but help.

be the one who has the right idea at the right time. Other characters such as Stillstorm and Duskcrown can then go with it.

actually volunteer his body and mind at great risk to the Loroi effort of finding a solution to the Shell Lotai.

Lots of ways really.

@dragoongfa
Ah, I see now. Never mind.

[novius]

@novius
You're overthinking the tests. There is no need for complicated scenarios. Wait for Alex to fall asleep and then put Beryl and Fblade on a shuttle 5km from Tempest. Then tell Alex orally literally anything. Perhabs couple it with a realsitic fire/emergeny drill with props and smoke. If the two Loroi can't stop themselfes from sending to Enzin even under orders not to, then they're seriously lacking in discipline.

Still, Alex would have to believe that this is no drill but the real thing. And as soon as he learns that it was 'just' a drill, perhaps even tailored to testing him, he won't take that lying down.

And sorry to break this to you, but Alex already is a Gary Stu. Every problem, every challenge set out for him gets solved for him by somebody else, random chance or by him essentially pouting. That needs to change.

I think your and my definition of Gary Stu differ radically. For me, Gary Stu is the male ripoff of Mary Sue, solving any obstacle single-handedly, relegating the rest of the cast to be either be handgrooms just carrying out his wishes or the fawning audience. You said it yourself, this is not Alex. But, nor is he completely sidelined as he did give valuable input on several things. Not so much as if to take over things, but definitely not 'nothing' and not simply coasting along.

actually volunteer his body and mind at great risk to the Loroi effort of finding a solution to the Shell Lotai.

His first priority is humanity. His second would be the friends he made. The well-being of the Union at a whole would come third, tops. So if he feels that he can ensure humanity's safety best being alive and conscious and the Union's well-being is the best way to ensure humanity's safety, he won't willingly jeopardize that state of being. But if he comes to the conclusion that humanity is better off without the Loroi, he would enact necessary steps to warn the humans/wipe his tracks/search for the proverbial third option/whatever.

But, so far, Union officials regularly did a bang up job of convincing him that they'd be the better choice for humans.

[dragoongfa]

The ground work on how Alex can help the story has already been set up, it has to be used correctly:

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1) He has already shown Stillstorm at least two different tactical approaches that can hinder the Umiak. Now the trick is to actually convince the Loroi to actually adopt a different tactical doctrine than they are politically inclined to use. Politics and intrigue will play a big part in solving this.

2) He has already shown Stillstorm that he can detect the Umiak Lotai that shrouds their fleets. Now he has to find a way to teach the Loroi how to do that.

If this isn't enough to convince the reader on how he can affect the outcome of the war I don't know what it is. Alex cannot be in command of a fleet action, nor he can be a Big Damn Hero who kills Umiak by the bucket loads. The Loroi themselves will have to win the war, he is just a single dude who is at the right time and place to steer things the right way.

Now the Loroi distrusting him is one thing but actually focusing their efforts on hindering his already solid advisory role for minor intelligence purposes at the face of a major Umiak offensive is downright stupid and a misapplication of resources.

The Loroi also solving problems on their own is also part of the course, they are characters with their own agency and agenda. Wanting and acting on what they think is the best course of action on the table is something that they should be doing; Alex hand holding them as they go around doing their business will be blatantly stupid. I didn't have Alex giving tactical advise to Stillstorm in the midst of battle in order to showcase that the veteran of 25 years of war knows her trade and that Alex's tactical advise will have to come after observing and thinking ways on how to improve things.

As far as I am aware Alex hasn't done much to help in the war effort. He was the brain of the Gora Relay operation and he was crucial in identifying the Umiak flagship at Enedd; all this while also having the right mind in identifying the Umiak tactical and strategic goals through what he observed. So far I don't think he has shown any Gary Stu attributes because he hasn't done anything other than give sound advise.

He is in no position, nor he can be in a position to do something heroic but he is in a position to help as an advisor with the help of the Loroi closest to him. Splitting/destroying the Fearsome Foursome and hindering them is counter to this set up. The Loroi high command still acting with distrust towards him is natural but them still pushing an extreme action from that angle as a narrative tool is counterproductive at this point, he is effectively immune from persecution due to the Emperor's standing orders. They can throw some monkey wrenches on his way but he needs his closest supporting and trusted friends nearby to help with everything.

[Razor One]

Regarding testing Alex's lotai and sanzai abilities, there's a very simple solution. Just ask for his participation. Explain what the tests are for, why they're being done, ask for his permission to conduct them, pretty much the same as what modern day researchers do when they pull in test subjects for psychology. If he doesn't want to be tested, or objects to certain aspects of their methodology, they don't have to do anything or are free to revise as necessary until they either decide that such an experiment is unwarranted, too dangerous, or meets the approval of all sides and proceeds forth.

I'm pretty sure that the discovery of the human ability to sanzai would be as huge a thing for Alex as for the Loroi, and he'd be just as curious as to what makes it tick as they do. There's no need for cruel and unusual experiments and certainly no call for dissection and the like. Yes, his lack of control is a concern, especially on a military vessel, and that's precisely why they need to proceed carefully in this regard so as to avoid further unnecessary disruption to military operations.

Regarding the upcoming battle...

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I'm fairly certain that the Umiak have never penetrated this far into enemy territory before. As such, they can never be quite certain what defences they'll be running into and where all the jump points are. I'm certain they do have some degree of solid intelligence, but it's likely to be far from certain and that gives a bit of wiggle room for glorious subterfuge.

To that end, one way to tip the odds somewhat more in favour of the defender would be baiting them to false jump points. Every Umiak division sent holding a worthless portion of space and not participating in the main siege is one less division they need to face directly. Sending automated courier vessels to fake jump points and jumping them out would work to that end, and if the Umiak are lead to believe that reinforcements are bound to come through, then the only cost to the defender is the courier vessel itself, which is well worth neutralising however many ships the Umiak send on that false errand.

Another way would be to mock up a fake diplomatic vessel; make it look like the Bellarmine (on long range sensors) and the Umiak are almost certain to give chase. It wouldn't need to be a perfect replica, it would just need to have a similar profile to the Bell and have enough of an 'escort' (ships too damaged to fight but still flight capable) to look like a diplomatic ship for the enemy to be baited into chasing it. Depending on how badly they want Alex and "the vessel in question", they could draw quite a few divisions on a wild goose chase. If combined the automated courier vessel idea above, they may even be baited to a false jump point and jumping to their deaths.

Even if they choose to remain in system, they'll still likely sit on any jump points they suspect reinforcements to come through while their main taskforce gets to work, and the more distributed the shells are, the less concentration of force available to them, and thus the easier a time any defending force will have. While I'm certain any shell commander will recognise that, baiting him with things he wants and convincing him he's doing well when he isn't ought to be par for the course considering this is war.

On the opposite vector, the system likely has a lot of hard assets with which to work up a defence. More relay stations like Gora, defence satellites, etc. Placing these at the jump points into the system where the shells are expected to arrive should be able to inflict significant losses on the enemy. Given Umiak tendency to have a hard time with Jump Sickness, whatever first strike occurs at the jump points are likely to inflict disproportionate casualties.

[dragoongfa]

Damn... the next part is a bigger bitch than I thought... I will certainly have it finished first thing tomorrow.

Or not, what's an extra hour of sleep anyway?

[novius]

Simply, wow. I have an idea on the next part which covers the testing/experimenting bit... and may reveal a bit about Alex's more uncanny abilities.

[Krulle]

http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... Dragoongfa: wow. Thank you. @Arioch: can we have such a promotion ceremony in-comic???

[dragoongfa]

@Werra

Sneaky of you but I can work with this; will help with mending things with Tempo.

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The 'amp sickness' symptoms also cover a wide variety of mental diseases in the elderly, especially dementia (hell advanced stages of multiple sclerosis have the exact same symptoms). It could very well be a false diagnosis since Nathan was 70 when he died which is already far above the average of humans from the time period he came from. Even with Loroi medical sciences they only had one human to work with, they couldn't have done much to help him.

Also 240 tozons human lifespan is impossible, it would mean that someone was born in 1920. Perhaps you meant 140?

[Werra]

A tozon is 0,7 earth years. I eyeballed the numbers a bit. I was aiming for somebody born about now to be still alive during Outsider. Perhabs we should increase the age of Nathan by about 10 tozon or so. As in not that old to us, quite old for Nathans time and super young to the Loroi. It doesn't really matter, since it only needs to feel like a possibility to Alex and the Loroi not to us.

Yes, the Loroi don't know a lot of human biology and the Doranzer writing the report had a sample case of one. Since Loroi don't age, human aging can easily be misinterpreted as a sickness. Which it would be in Loroi.

The situation sounds worse to the Loroi than it is. But now that Alex meets a farseer and will be used to sense many systems away...well, farseers don't last long. I hope it came across as understandabke why Beryl decided on switching ships.

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It also conveniently makes the reader emotionally invested in the upcoming battle, since Tempests destruction would mean the premature end of the story. Green River on the other hand is in real danger..

Don't know what you have planned for Tempo, but her explaining to Alex why Beryl sold his secrets out could get her back into better standing.

Even if Green River buys it, there are feasible ways for Beryl to come back. Stillstorm did it, Fireblade too, twice.

[dragoongfa]

Wait a sec, I thought that a tozon was just a little shorter that an year. Making them roughly equivalent.

EDIT: Yeah, I read the lexicon and forgot the Loroi timeline; although I find it weird that they use the Perrein year and not the Deinar one.

[Werra]

No. Check the Loroi timeline page. A tozon is 30% shorter than a year.

Edit:
I think that was a political concession to the little sister world. It's got its ups being Mizol central.

[dragoongfa]

Will need to recheck some things then; since 400 tozons do not equate 400 years then this means that several members of the 'Lost Diral' are still alive. Loroi can live naturally for over 400 human years and highly influential Loroi can extend their lifetime respectably beyond that with life extension treatments (Emperor Loremark died at 459 years old, having ruled for 327 tozons or 230 years).

Hell, 400 tozons before that puts Nathan's disappearance somewhere in the mid to late 1880s; a century after the independence war where his father went to fight and well after the US civil war. Hell there weren't any Indian tribes left in Ohio back then, never mind the fact that it was a well developed and industrialized state at that point.

EDIT: How about we equate the 'tozon' used for Nathan and most of the dialogs as the 'Deinar tozon' which we will say is roughly an Earth year? Less of a hassle and it keeps things sane without inconsistencies.

EDIT2: Nathan's sickness roughly coincides with the onset of several neurological diseases that are common in the ages between 50 to 60.

[Warringrose]

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When the humans discover of this event they will kill all of these aliens. That is if the haven't already...

[novius]

Separating the foursome is definitely not the way to go, and I do have a good idea how and why Beryl simply can't stay separated from him, which sort of fits with what I already had in mind, plus, it would clean up a perceived logical error in the past....

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Nope, she won't have a nervous breakdown like Tempo had, but she'll see soon enough how her part of the deal is rendered nil.

Plus, honestly? If Beryl had the bones for such backroom deals and outright betrayal, she'd be a Mizol, not a Listel.

[novius]

EDIT: How about we equate the 'tozon' used for Nathan and most of the dialogs as the 'Deinar tozon' which we will say is roughly an Earth year? Less of a hassle and it keeps things sane without inconsistencies.

That would actually make sense in a way that the fledgling Union took about four hundred years to agree on a common set of measures and scales. If you just think about RL 'feet' and 'miles' you have an idea

[orion1836]

Separating the foursome is definitely not the way to go, and I do have a good idea how and why Beryl simply can't stay separated from him, which sort of fits with what I already had in mind, plus, it would clean up a perceived logical error in the past....

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Nope, she won't have a nervous breakdown like Tempo had, but she'll see soon enough how her part of the deal is rendered nil.

Plus, honestly? If Beryl had the bones for such backroom deals and outright betrayal, she'd be a Mizol, not a Listel.

Well, the Sorting Hat makes mistakes from time to ti... waitaminute.

(That said, Beryl would look good in black armor).

[entity2636]

Plus, honestly? If Beryl had the bones for such backroom deals and outright betrayal, she'd be a Mizol, not a Listel.

I don't see what's wrong with Beryl making a decision on her own and why that would be seen as a "mizol thing". Plus, where's the betrayal? If anything, she displayed agency and ability of decision making of her own. Her exchange with Brightshield also shows that Beryl has character, pride, ambition and opinions, that she can stand up for herself and is not just a pretty face or "bridge bunny".

This way she can both help Alex with his mission (establish and secure diplomatic relations with the Union and set the foundation for an alliance or at least a non-aggression pact) and become sort of a "friendly agent" for the team close to the top brass while not jeopardizing Tempest's performance at the same time due to Alex's thus far uncontrollable Lotai abilities. I think she finally understood Brightshield's mission and her decision to get transferred also helps Brightshield enormously to carry out her task with minimal risk of collateral damage and keeps them out of each other's hair.

[Werra]

Come on, guys. Beryl (temporarily) on Green River is not the end of the world. She is still in system and can still be messaged.

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Why Beryl can't be separated from Alex

I got to be honest. This and that you have planned something for testing makes me worry about Alex characterisation. If he can't deal with a commonplace personal, emotional issue, then he seems very weak.

Likewise, if his abilities just so happen to be that this issue gets solved for him, then that feels cheap as well. That would mean another problem cleared up not because Alex did something but because he is a certain way.

But I am curious to see how the others deal with the new situation. Perhabs somebody has a great idea on what adventures Beryl goes to on Green River.

@entity
Yes, definitely. Beryl acting this way is in line with her duties as a MizolListel. What a typo.

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As I envision it, Brightshield said just the right things to affect Beryl. Beryl went to Shadow to get debriefed but had to think quick when she learned about the massive risk to Alex (which might still turn out to be non existant) That it can look like a betrayal to Alex is something that could require clearing up betweeb the two. Thanks to distance, without just sanzaing the ttuth even.

[dragoongfa]

I am of two minds for this, on one hand I had a few things and shenanigans in store for the fearsome foursome in which Beryl played a part but on the other Beryl getting a short break from Alex plays well with other parts, in particular building trust with Tempo.

I also don't actually see what Beryl has to offer Duskcrown, Alex will provide the information as was agreed upon and although it is true that he will advise for things humanity would like for continuous friendly relationships with the Union that is all still subject to negotiations. Measures to enforce loyalty aren't really needed either; humanity is on the backfoot in every way that matters and by this point they know that they have to offer all they can to their ally if they are to be worthy of protection. As such humanity will be loyal for the duration of the war, if not for centuries to come.

I can see the transfer being temporary for several reasons, lack of Beryl's actual usefulness once she transfers the memories she has to offer and Alex's full cooperation despite the health concerns (which may actually be non existent).

The most likely scenario I can see is that Stillstorm will ask for Beryl back, trusted subordinate angle (because of the whole 'asked for Alex to stay on Tempest') plus Beryl not being of further use once transferring the memories she has to an other Listel. This could take a couple of days to pan out.

[Werra]

There is definitely a lot that can happen now. Beryls physical absence does open up room for other characters to pounce on Alex.

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So who won that bet between Moonglow and Ashrain?

Beryl should be useful on Green River until at least after the upcoming battle. Having the alien and the most knowledgeable Listel on the same ship sounds risky anyway.