Well of Souls Forums

Zorg56 wrote:Where is cabin on bellarmine?
Do loroi find any personal items?

The crew quarters are spread through the forward section on Bellarmine, in the area where you can see windows. There would have been sharp limits on how much weight in personal items each crewmember could bring on a deep space mission -- probably just a few grams -- mostly for rings and personal jewelry, or small-scale keepsakes. Most of a crewman's "stuff" would be digital information: music, pictures, books and letters, etc., which can be stored on Corps-issued devices. But yes, examples of all of this could potentially have been recovered by the Loroi.

Zorg56 wrote:P.s. Russia will collaps in a span of 5 years, there will be no such country in the future.

I meant Russia in the sense of a region and population, rather than a specific government. Whether in future there is the same or a different government, or a collection of smaller governments, one hopes that the ~150 million people in that region will not simply disappear.

Arioch wrote:Russia isn't even in the top 10 world GDP, and though they are still #9 in population, they are the only country in the top 10 with a falling population. Russia will probably be passed by Korea in GDP and by Mexico in population in 2019.

I doubts we can loose another 10 millions of population in just a year.

No, but Mexico gaining another 8-12 million doesn't seem to be out of range for them...

If they would find a way to end their Drug wars, that would go fast.

Krulle wrote:No, but Mexico gaining another 8-12 million doesn't seem to be out of range for them...

If they would find a way to end their Drug wars, that would go fast.

I don't know, at the rate mexicans are moving across the border that seems unlikely. Maybe if the US builds the wall and starts a large-scale deportation project if they close down birthright citizenship. (Especially if they do so retroactively.)

Laws applying retroactively are not seen favourably by federal courts.
It's just that the federal courts are often too slow in their verdicts to change the outcome of such actions.

Also, there are plenty of people moving into Mexico coming from Mexico's south border.
(not as many as Mr. Trump says, but still)

(BTW: I do agree that it's unlikely that Mexico will overtake Russia next year in the population numbers. IMHO, not even in 2020, but we'll see.)

Edit: Won't happen for quite a while:
Mexico development: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph ... and_deaths
About 123 415 000 inhabitants, and +1 500 000 inhabitants from birth/death.

Russia's development:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph ... After_WWII
About 146,842,402 inhabitants, and -130 000 inhabitants.

Also, this curve from the worldbank indicates it'll take a while....

With the rumors of the first crispr babies being born, I'd like to know about humanity in Outsider. Have they edited out objectively harmful genes or introduced clearly beneficial ones?

Did the members of the scouting mission receive special gene treatment, as whatever ethical concerns were brushed aside for this mission?

Werra wrote:With the rumors of the first crispr babies being born, I'd like to know about humanity in Outsider. Have they edited out objectively harmful genes or introduced clearly beneficial ones?

Did the members of the scouting mission receive special gene treatment, as whatever ethical concerns were brushed aside for this mission?

Genetic engineering of humans beings is illegal in most Earth nations. There are a variety of medical gene therapy treatments that are legal, and a number of exceptions to the limitations on gene tailoring of babies that people will use to try to skirt the restrictions, and of course there will be people outright doing it illegally, but there is not widespread genetic engineering of human babies on Earth.

There are some genetic engineering experiments going on in the colonies, where Earth laws don't apply. But no, the members of the scouting mission are not gene tailored in any meaningful way.

Why genetic enginering was prohibited?
I doubt that some "ethical" reasons can stop corporations from making insane amount of money on parents who wants perfect child.

Zorg56 wrote:Why genetic enginering was prohibited?
I doubt that some "ethical" reasons can stop corporations from making insane amount of money on parents who wants perfect child.

It's not as simple as "making insane amounts of money from rich parents".
The economic calculations for this requires that there is a large and sustained group of rich parents as a market
as well as, most likely, a multi-decade investment project that will remain a money-sink until those illicit markets can be accessed.
You won't be able to advertise, either, and the modern method of recouping investments for pharmaceutical companies, a pseudo-monopoly on the medical product for up to several decades won't exist, and the classical method of recouping them, access to mass markets with the 'middle-class model' won't exist either.
That's not really a recipe for a successful investment.

Zorg56 wrote:Why genetic enginering was prohibited?

It's happening right now. It's already illegal or quasi-legal in most countries where it's possible, and it looks to me like more restrictions are on the way.

I think that's probably for the best. Engineering people will place all kinds of stresses (both seen and unforeseen) on society that we really don't need right now.

Zorg56 wrote:I doubt that some "ethical" reasons can stop corporations from making insane amount of money on parents who wants perfect child.

That may be so, and that's why I said it is probably done in violation of the restrictions, but prior to popular belief, corporations do not make the laws.

I don't know how this question hasn't been asked before (unless the search bar decieves me) so here we go:

• What is the energy throughput of the Mjolnir Particle Beam Cannon?
• How does it stack up when compared to a Loroi Particle Beam?
• Would it be able to damage a combatant from either the loroi or umiak side under the assumption that it can get into optimal range?

Such statistics as I have are listed in the particle beam weapon table alongside the other combatants' versions here:
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/weapo ... icle_beams

It's a large weapon that does superior damage to the Loroi/Delrias heavy version at short range, but is ineffective beyond 30 Mm, and has a low rate of fire which is further hampered by the power limitations of the older heavy cruisers on which it was hurriedly mounted.

Since I'm around... I have a question that has been bothering me since I read the Outsider Insider:

Who is the captain of ECS-088? Especially given ECS-05 seems to be long out of commission... i.e. not listed anywhere, and apparently predating the ECS-020 Centaur...

Errhile wrote:Who is the captain of ECS-088? Especially given ECS-05 seems to be long out of commission... i.e. not listed anywhere, and apparently predating the ECS-020 Centaur...

Do those numbers have some special significance I'm not aware of?

Several of the ships you've listed share names with Earth Company's warships from the Alliance/Union universe by C.J.Cherrych. The ECS-XX format is also consistent (even though the numbers do not match, obviously), so I had a hunch it might be inspired by it.

ECS-05 Norway is probably the most important of them (if at least in terms of "screen time" and fame), and I think her commander, the (somewhat infamous) captain Signy Mallory would, IMO, provide quite a match for the veteran Loroi commanders.

Just a loose thought in my head, but seems my hunch was completely off-target

Zorg56 wrote:Why genetic enginering was prohibited?
I doubt that some "ethical" reasons can stop corporations from making insane amount of money on parents who wants perfect child.

Genetic engineering of humans are inevitable. Attempts to ban the practice will only slow down the process somewhat and THEN someone that didn't hesitate to do it (China perhaps) will utterly curbstomp those that was stupid enough not to design their own IQ 200+ designer babies en masse.

Imagine how late medieval Europe would have fared if there had been a ban on the use of gunpowder. Those that ignored the ban would eventually just roll over their opposition but THAT wouldn't have happened because the first firearms where junk and by the time they got better the ban would rapidly have been lifted/ignored by anyone with an any sense of self preservation. I predict that this is exactly what will happen with genetic engineering of humans. Sadly by then, if the leaders in the field are unwilling to share their knowledge others may go for shortcuts and we may end up with an Eugenics War anyway. Actually that is exactly how I would place this iconic event in an updated Star Trek Canon. I would then have a second war several centuries later where the Federation are utterly crushed as a direct result of having abandoned genetic engineering. Gimping yourself isn't really a smart thing to do.

It would be far more complicated than: The one who genetically engineers humans will end up above the others.

Studies have shown that people withe comparable IQs tend to socialize within a range of 10 to 15 points above and below them. Furthermore social norms and interactions tend to diverge between groups with different IQs. In short a whole can of worms opens if a sizeable chunk of the youth suddenly gets far smarter than the previous generation. Remember that movie with the kids that were inseminated by a supernatural force/aliens and were 'different'? Pretty much that but without the otherwordly stuff.

Now add different improvements like enhanced fertility, longevity and etc. Mass societal friction just from the hard biological differences would ensue, things that would require an in depth revision of societal norms and legislation.

Never mind the fact that it takes time for the effects of widespread genetic engineering to show. For all we know the modification to enhance one's IQ could end up causing severe dementia problems on a large chunk of the population.

The one who takes the chance to be the first to genetically engineer their population would face a lot more problems than international backlash and sanctions.

Sweforce wrote:Attempts to ban the practice will only slow down the process somewhat and THEN someone that didn't hesitate to do it (China perhaps) will utterly curbstomp those that was stupid enough not to design their own IQ 200+ designer babies en masse.

Well, the first problem is that it's probably not that simple. There's no simple set of genes for intelligence (as far as we know, and you can bet they've been looking), so I think it would take a formidable understanding of an incredibly complex system to successfully breed super-smart babies in the first place. We're nowhere near that currently, so there's no guarantee that even in the best circumstance such a program will produce any more than past programs to breed super smart people by selection (which, as I understand it, weren't very successful). Larger brains don't equate to higher IQ's, and breeding two geniuses rarely gets you another genius, so there's some evidence that genius is as much about how the brain develops as it is about genetics.

Second, even if you understand the genome well enough to get your target trait, genetics is fraught with unintended consequences. Genetic code is spaghetti code; a change in one place can have ripple effects in systems that seem totally unrelated. In Russia in the 50's, there was an attempt to domesticate foxes for the fur trade by breeding them for docility (foxes being particularly uncooperative animals); the result produced more friendly foxes, but which barked like dogs and had floppy ears and curly tails and black and white spotted coats that were useless for the intended purpose. Clearly the genes for docility were also linked to other traits which, perhaps not surprisingly, had produced similar changes in domesticated dogs. It's difficult to know ahead of time what will go wrong with test babies when you start flipping gene switches, and experimenting like this on humans is morally problematic as well as extremely dangerous.

The potential benefit might be worth the risk and effort, but I don't think it's by any means a no-brainer. With advanced enough super-AI technology you can work out these problems, but if you have such super-smart AI, what do you need with super-smart kids anyway?

Finally, the wisdom of creating a new species to replace your current one has always escaped me. There is a powerful biological drive to perpetuate one's own species; why would people be eager to commit species suicide by artificially creating a "better" new one?

Sweforce wrote:Imagine how late medieval Europe would have fared if there had been a ban on the use of gunpowder. Those that ignored the ban would eventually just roll over their opposition but THAT wouldn't have happened because the first firearms where junk and by the time they got better the ban would rapidly have been lifted/ignored by anyone with an any sense of self preservation. I predict that this is exactly what will happen with genetic engineering of humans. Sadly by then, if the leaders in the field are unwilling to share their knowledge others may go for shortcuts and we may end up with an Eugenics War anyway. Actually that is exactly how I would place this iconic event in an updated Star Trek Canon. I would then have a second war several centuries later where the Federation are utterly crushed as a direct result of having abandoned genetic engineering. Gimping yourself isn't really a smart thing to do.

I'm not convinced that having a few extra super-smart people is really that much of a decisive advantage. Unless you plan on forcing ALL of your people to have gene-enhanced babies... but I don't think any government on Earth has that much control over its population. And I shudder to imagine the dystopian society that would try.

Mostly agree, except on one point:

Arioch wrote:I'm not convinced that having a few extra super-smart people is really that much of a decisive advantage. Unless you plan on forcing ALL of your people to have gene-enhanced babies...

Breed 100-1000, and all a country needs is a single one of them to become a Von Braun or Oppenheimer to obtain a substantial edge over it's rivals.

Mr.Tucker wrote:Breed 100-1000, and all a country needs is a single one of them to become a Von Braun or Oppenheimer to obtain a substantial edge over it's rivals.

Except that historically, the side with the cleverest boffins often seems to be the one that loses the war.