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with the discovery of primitive native life on numerous alien worlds

Oooooh, tell us more Arioch! Are there primitive sentient societies around in Human controlled space?

As I recall from reading and prior Q&A's, no. Primitive native life refers to stuff like bacteria and early multicellular life such as algae, lichens and such.

If there were primitive civilization within Terran space, the cruiser project would likely never have been cancelled on the basis there are aliens out there, and we just lucked out to be the most advanced locally.

Grayhome wrote:

with the discovery of primitive native life on numerous alien worlds

Oooooh, tell us more Arioch! Are there primitive sentient societies around in Human controlled space?

Think more along the lines of pondscum in the oceans of Europa. Though it would be intriguing to know more about how the systems of human space shape up. There are few colonies but quite a lot of stars.

Yeah. Primitive as in microorganisms, on Proxima and Aldea.

Grayhome wrote:

with the discovery of primitive native life on numerous alien worlds

Oooooh, tell us more Arioch! Are there primitive sentient societies around in Human controlled space?

My guess there is. On earth, I guess some areas are still somewhat underdeveloped, sometimes deliberately. Most likely the Amish are still around for instance. This could be something for visiting aliens to study. Expect xenoantropologists to arrive shortly.

Sweforce wrote:My guess there is. On earth, I guess some areas are still somewhat underdeveloped, sometimes deliberately. Most likely the Amish are still around for instance. This could be something for visiting aliens to study. Expect xenoantropologists to arrive shortly.

Hmmm... but are they truly sentient?

yes they are sentient and sane...they have some strange ideas of what a good life is though...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOfZLb33uCg <---- 'nuff said.

Pretty sure they are.
The question is are we (non-Amish) besides sentient also intelligent?
They way we handle our resources and our living space, it is questionable, and can be argued that the Amish are smarter than us.

(In "The Old Man's War", Amish-like (Mennonites) colonists play an important role ("the last colony").... 't was an interesting read....)

Sweforce wrote:My guess there is. On earth, I guess some areas are still somewhat underdeveloped, sometimes deliberately. Most likely the Amish are still around for instance. This could be something for visiting aliens to study. Expect xenoantropologists to arrive shortly.

I can only imagine how it will be like when Alex encounters the Loroi equivalent to the Amish.

Beryl: Captain Jardin, we should leave...
Before she could finish what she was saying, they had come in sigh. About 40 loroi were walking down the street of the town. With same skin color, blue with a tint of purple, and blue hair, with variation in hue. All of them wearing a different kind of cloth, with many designs and colors. Some have their head shaved, others had long hair. They would either carry a concealed dagger or a bow around the torso. They must be a tribe. And by the stares they are giving to us, they must never have seen an alien before.
They stopped in the middle of the street and begun what looked like a telepathic conversation. Beryl was at my side and appeared apprehensive. If her troubled expression had not be clear enough, the sound of Reed's hand tightening around the handle of her pistol did pass the message.
One of them approached us and stared at Beryl. All these eyes upon me made me a little uncomfortable.
Beryl: Captain Jardin, Semago wishes to know why a tribe would let a male be a warrior and why you are pink.

P.S: Sorry for the bad english.

hi hi

There are groups of Amish people who live not far from me in the middle of nowhere. In my experience, they are for the most part, perfectly decent and respectable people. I can think of a number of social structures I would rank below theirs, anyways.

icekatze wrote:I can think of a number of social structures I would rank below theirs, anyways.

politicians?

Sweforce wrote:

icekatze wrote:I can think of a number of social structures I would rank below theirs, anyways.

politicians?

I am going to go with furry pornographers

dragoongfa wrote:

Sweforce wrote:

icekatze wrote:I can think of a number of social structures I would rank below theirs, anyways.

politicians?

I am going to go with furry pornographers

The Loroi Imperial XenoAnthropological Society will have a lot to dig into. More suggestions of where to point their studies folks?

hi hi

I think everyone's got a little bit of weirdness to them, and that's alright. Terran social groups that I would rank below the Amish include fascists, people who try to subjugate others through force, hate groups, and those who try to subvert social protections for their own short term, selfish gain; just to name a few.

As pacifistic people who value the nature as nurturing them, I would put the Amish rather far up the ladder of list of Terran social groups.
They may, by choice, not be that happy about "non-believers", but they are not really pushy about their belief (they don't try to force their believe on you).

Its certainly an interesting sociocultural sub-group but on the other hand they do sacrifice a lot of modern benefits for their austere way of life. Certainly better than other human sociocultural sub-groups but they aren't anything more than a non contributing novelty in the grand scheme of things.

Aliens cultures that value utility and social contribution would see them as wasteful at the very least and parasitic at the worse.

Alien cultures that value pacifism and have widespread acceptance of divergent and peaceful lifestyles would see them as an ideal society.

It all depends on how one sees the world.

Social contribution: I consider living so that you preserve nature's resources quite a social contribution. We could learn a lot from the Amish, like slowing down....
But we prefer living by a clock, and investing our hurry into personal leisure.
We also do not need to fly across half the planet, just because we feel better having done a holiday down-under than in Slovenia (central/northern Europe), which from my point of view just shows as much diversity in Nature and Culture than down-under can offer.
The Amish teach that missing something is not that bad. You will find something else fun to do, once your chores are done. Work comes first, then leisure. Business first, then play.

But our cars get bigger with every new model, we don't even drive them until they're broken anymore; and it needs to be an upper-class car, because we don't want our neighbour to think....
Our bottled water needs to be Italian water.
Our bed frames and office desks need to be made from tropic woods.
We need to go skiing in the winter.
We need to go for summer holidays in the US.
[insert whatever status symbol you see people chasing for]

We might not listen much to the Amish, they still show us by example that you can live a happy life not pursuing those (questionable) goals.

Not free of guilt myself...
I don't consider them sins though.


And I really cannot see the Amish as parasitic. They are very self-sustaining. They actually sell quite a chunk of what they grow, proving that as farmers they are quite efficient, despite not obeying "modern agrarian rules of tons of fertilisers and herbicides".
Okay, they rely on the government of the US, and the Colonial Union to defend them from outer aggressions, but then they might not be in any line of fire without those governments... Their lifestyle does not attract pirates and other thieves.

It is as you said:

dragoongfa wrote:It all depends on how one sees the world.

People tend to focus on the quaint anti-technology aspect of Amish culture, and overlook the fact that it is a fundamentalist religious sect. Peaceful, yes, but as oppressive to its own members as any cult you can think of.

It's none of my business what people do with themselves in their own homes, and so it's not for me to say how people should choose to live. But I do not find anything cute or quaint about religious Luddism.

Well said Arioch

hi hi

There are lots of misunderstandings about Amish people that get circulated in popular culture and national media. There are a number of different sects of Amish that can have some rather different beliefs, from Old Order to New Order.

Around where I live, they are really are not oppressive to their own members like a cult. In fact, they require their children to leave home and experience life in the wider society when they are old enough, so they can make a better informed decision about whether they want to participate in that community or not.

They're not perfect, I wouldn't want to join them, but they are human beings just like the rest of us.