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Page 170: What I fear... 
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Post Page 170: What I fear...
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Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:44 pm
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
Being of a military backgorund himself, It's quite possibly Alex has seen what that loss of youthful courage looks like.

The dull-eyed and cynical soldier that's lost every iota of idealism they had, and filled the hole with jaded fatalism as they step into just another day in the Army? Already dead inside, whatever bullet or shrapnel with their name on it finally just making it official?

I actually hope Alex isn't familiar with that.


Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:50 pm
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
Well, that’s some depth of character right there for Tempo.

I feel nitpicky - especially ‘cause I can barely manage stick figures - but I think Tempo’s hands were a little small versus her face in the last 2 frames.

Edit: now listening to sad songs in honour of Tempo's death of the soul. Options so far: Losing my Religion by REM and The Freshman by the Verve Pipe (which isn't spot on thematically, but close enough for me). Or many things from Fleetwood Mac. Any suggestions?


Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:39 am
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
Couldn't resist.

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Handy exploitable for those interested. Here's the font as well that I used to approximate the comics font style. Go nuts. :twisted:

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Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:44 am
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
Tempo is talking about Stillstorm, isn't she?

Highlord wrote:
Being of a military backgorund himself, It's quite possibly Alex has seen what that loss of youthful courage looks like.
Is it? He's only 19, his education seems rushed. Was there even a recentish war in Outsider for humanity?

@Kiwi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWDA5GfOdjQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY5p7rGm5-w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6JcXZdL3Fw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpI9YmvoRzA


Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:08 am
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
Wow. That's dark Beryl!

This is where the person of faith.... seemingly only ME around here; just sadly looks at everyone and wishes that light of faith in the grand design of a beneficent and caring creator watching over us ~ that I hold inside... could be shared with those around me. For I do not fear death for a different reason. I Believe.

Maybe Alex can share a song with them... like ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4irXQhgMqg

And for me at least were I in Alex's position... Tempo's last words would have convinced me... perhaps naively, but those same sentiments that same light of hope at the very least mankind and Loroi share. No matter what political or cultural differences we may have in disparity we clearly want the same things. To live in peace, to watch our children inherit the works of our labor and and also live in peace. I would have come clean about the damned AI in my Ipad ~ at a certain point you have to follow your gut feeling. and I have trouble seeing the Loroi as even a possible enemy at that point.

But ... I'm no soldier, I just try to be a man of faith. Some days.. I succeed.

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Last edited by sunphoenix on Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:56 am
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
Perhaps, Jardin should lift their spirits up with some wise words?
Some Dude wrote:
It is better by far to embrace the hard truth, than a reasurring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal.


Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:00 am
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
Voitan wrote:
Perhaps, Jardin should lift their spirits up with some wise words?
Some Dude wrote:
It is better by far to embrace the hard truth, than a reasurring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal.

It's often shocking how secularists come off as being even more cringeworthy than the most committed of theologians. I mean, what 'fable-aligned' person would these words ever inspire? Would Talon and Spiral find any solace in these words, considering their existence as functional cannon-fodder in a war they see no hope of surviving? "Oh what's that, I've already revealed my nihilistic view that my most likely imminent death is inevitable, but you'd like me to embrace some hard truth like 'good fortune can't be transferred between people'? Why, a moment ago I was deceived by the illusion that as senior in my group, my ill fortune was hopefully purchasing better odds for my closest and oldest friends, but now I am euphoric; enlightened by my intelligence, in that nope it's all crapsack and my friends will also suffer."

In fact, could loroi ever be inspired by words? For some reason, I imagine their existence as one which is mired in a backdrop of telepathic sarcasm at this point. Imagine the drudgery of a military life surrounded by inescapable blackadders without the humor.


Last edited by boldilocks on Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:49 am
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
sunphoenix wrote:
Wow. That's dark Beryl!

This is where the person of faith.... seemingly only ME around here; just sadly looks at everyone and wishes that light of faith in the grand design of a beneficent and caring creator watching over us ~ that I hold inside... could be shared with those around me. For I do not fear death for a different reason. I Believe.

Maybe Alex can share a song with them... like ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4irXQhgMqg

And for me at least were I in Alex's position... Tempo's last words would have convinced me... perhaps naively, but those same sentiments that same light of hope at the very least mankind and Loroi share. No matter what political or cultural differences we make have in disparity we clearly want the same things. To live in peace, to watch our children inherit the works of our labor and and also live in peace. I would have come clean about the damned AI in my Ipad ~ at a certain point you have to follow your gut feeling. and I have trouble seeing the Loroi as even a possible enemy at that point.

But ... I'm no soldier, I just try to be a man of faith. Some days.. I succeed.


In truth, most people love certain religious or spiritual ideas. You just need to take a look at bestsellers, movies and games to realize that.

The problem is that our current religions are simply an utter catastrophy.


Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:50 am
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
Arent wrote:
In truth, most people love certain religious or spiritual ideas. You just need to take a look at bestsellers, movies and games to realize that.
The problem is that our current religions are simply an utter catastrophy.

The only religion of the world today is hyper-liberal one-world consumerism. Even muslims seem to be turning into bugmen the moment they are imported into the west.
Every thought or idea that might have some religious or spiritual impact is immediately commodified, consumed and ultimately ridiculed and discarded, the same as any other product.


Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:56 am
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
There's post-ironic neo-extremism* with a streak of fatalism. If you want something else.

Whatever flavour you hate the least.


Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:07 am
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
I don't think Beryl's position is so much anti-faith as anti-superstition and being grounded in what is real and provable.

Since faith is... faith, you can neither prove nor disprove any assertions it makes, and attempting to do so in either direction is both futile and misses the point depending on the angle you're approaching things from. Beryl is speaking from a personal position and stating what works for her; she doesn't believe in fate and will trust to what has been proven to work. Most likely, the Loroi have put in an effort into seeing if the Seii superstition has a statistically significant impact on groups that utilise it. The results are probably inconclusive, hence her attitude, but the reason the practice is still actively practiced is likely due to its role in group cohesion and bonding, rather than any actual impact on survival.

Overall, I'd say that Beryl wouldn't have an issue with religious crewmembers, especially if it was shown that it improved their performance, morale or had other positive or neutral benefits. The only time she'd start to tip that fedora would be if it has a negative impact, which is probably when the brass would get involved. The only reason she's showing a bit of fedora here is probably that she's irritated that they're talking about this silly nonsense and not more stuff about Humaniti.

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Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:15 am
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
Not to devolve this to a heated religious discussion but this is what faith is to me...

Hebrews 11:1-6
"Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen. 2 For by means of it, the men of ancient times had witness borne to them.
3 By Faith we perceive that the system of things were put in order by God's word, so that what is seen has come into existence from things that are not visible.
4 By Faith Abel offered God a sacrifice of greater worth than that of Cain, and through that faith he received the witness that he was righteous, for God approved his gifts, and although he died, he still speaks through his faith.
5 By Faith E'noch was transferred so as not to see death, and he was nowhere to be found because God had transferred him; for before he was transferred he received the witness that he had pleased God well.
6 Moreover, without Faith it is impossible to please God well, for whomever approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him."


Faith is not Blind. But it does take belief ~ And I find comfort in this. I Fear Very little.

So end of sermon and I agree Razor One, I think Beryl would more like to discuss more things about Humaniti... and is concerned that the Loroi not be portrayed to a clearly Very intelligent and competent Alex not to be tied to tribal superstition.

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Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:00 pm
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
I have to say very impressive out look given how much time has been consumed by this war they have all lived over different times and cultures.


Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:08 pm
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
boldilocks wrote:
It's often shocking how secularists come off as being even more cringeworthy than the most committed of theologians.


Yeah, there are some real arsehole atheists out there. I've often thought "you don't have to believe but you should at least show some respect."

sunphoenix wrote:
...Maybe Alex can share a song with them... like ... [Paint It Black].

It's a great song, but I'm not sure it would improve matters. Maybe You Can't Always Get What you Want?

Arioch has mentioned that the Loroi generally aren't much for singing ('cause it's vocal), but I'm sure some of them would enjoy refined sonic nihilism (Bring out the Tool!) and others (i.e. Beryl) would be fascinated by the equipment involved ("This equipment consumes megawatts?")

Arent wrote:
The problem is that our current religions are simply an utter catastrophy.

Well, here in New Zealand the national religion is rugby; and the Rugby Gods are worshipped via the All Black avatars under the direction of the high priest The Coach. When all goes well, the infidels (Australia and South Africa) are crushed and the nation celebrates.

When all goes poorly, the mood turns dark and sour. Newscasters speak in hushed tones, heads are bowed, speeches are made. In due course, The Coach is offered up as a human sacrifice.

Interestingly, the Rugby Gods are beneficent even unto the disgraced; The Coach's fall tends to be cushioned by a giant pile of money at the bottom.

Werra wrote:
Tempo is talking about Stillstorm, isn't she?

And the song for Stillstorm would be Pull Me Under by Dream Theater. The lyric "All I can feel is honour and spite" seems appropriate. (Here's a cover I really like.)

Will look at those other songs you posted later.


Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:30 pm
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
kiwi wrote:
Arent wrote:
The problem is that our current religions are simply an utter catastrophy.

Well, here in New Zealand the national religion is rugby; and the Rugby Gods are worshipped via the All Black avatars under the direction of the high priest The Coach. When all goes well, the infidels (Australia and South Africa) are crushed and the nation celebrates.

When all goes poorly, the mood turns dark and sour. Newscasters speak in hushed tones, heads are bowed, speeches are made. In due course, The Coach is offered up as a human sacrifice.

Interestingly, the Rugby Gods are beneficent even unto the disgraced; The Coach's fall tends to be cushioned by a giant pile of money at the bottom.


The same is true for the gods of Unrestricted Capitalism (CEOs), and the Gods of Football (whether you mean the coaches of the USoA type of Football or the European style of Football).

But I do thank you for this view, as it did make me laugh out loud.

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Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:51 pm
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
:)

Thank you all.. those are kind and introspective responses. I feared I'd made an opening for an unpleasant series of replies.

Even I may not agree with some points of view.. but I find it uncivilized to be unable to discuss different points of view.. and hypocritical to claim respect for all sentient life but be unable to discuss politely different points of view.

Civilization should be all thinking being's goal! To find common dialogue... regardless of belief or reason and in that dialogue ~ perhaps learn more about ourselves and those we converse with in that higher goal of a meeting of minds in peace.

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Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:48 pm
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
boldilocks wrote:
Voitan wrote:
Perhaps, Jardin should lift their spirits up with some wise words?
Some Dude wrote:
It is better by far to embrace the hard truth, than a reasurring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal.

It's often shocking how secularists come off as being even more cringeworthy than the most committed of theologians. I mean, what 'fable-aligned' person would these words ever inspire? Would Talon and Spiral find any solace in these words, considering their existence as functional cannon-fodder in a war they see no hope of surviving? "Oh what's that, I've already revealed my nihilistic view that my most likely imminent death is inevitable, but you'd like me to embrace some hard truth like 'good fortune can't be transferred between people'?


You seem to be reading more into that quote than I read it, people can make their own good fortune, like posing their own space craft like spinning debris. There appears to be some stuff here to unpack regarding your response, it's like your squeezing a stone to find any offense here.


Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:04 pm
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
its a pretty powerful piece.

As one who irl also remembers a time before war was constant (Born 1970, enlisted 1990 eight months before Iraq invaded Kuwait) and having served in uniform (army and navy) for almost two decades, her words are very poignant.

Courage.... and sanity.... belief in indestructibility along with faith in my superiors... were strong at the start. And all of it... became tempered the longer I was in and the more I experienced.

I retained courage but it became wiser in choosing when/how to act. A willingness to keep stepping up stays. Just more... smarter(?) than it had been then.
I retained sanity.... but oh boy is it damaged and perhaps warped by what I've experienced. Warped good or bad... is kinda open to interpretation.
I lost the indestructibility belief long ago- events proved to me that I was NOT, though I can say I was damn lucky body parts are intact.

I retained faith in myself at least- though it was shaken in some aspects and strengthened in others. Faith in superiors... was very much tempered with both good and bad commanders. I learned how to tell who the good ones were over bad ones- though sometimes the bad ones have an excellent smoke/mirror game which makes them hard to pick out.

But I can absolutely say with confidence... is when one loses the willingness to step up, step forward and fight, to do the right thing.... is when one truly dies. At least from my perspective.

Others will have a different perspective to mine.... but this is mine.

So yeah... I get Tempo's words very well. Well done, Arioch. Well done

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Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:49 pm
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
hi hi

Beryl is just going straight for all the Loroi cultural taboos. Eating in groups now? What a deviant! :lol:

(Also, to paraphrase a quote: 'I'm not interested in finding truth, that is the purview of religion. As a scientist, I'm concerned with quantifying doubt.')

I didn't take Tempo for being so pessimistic, although I suppose given their current circumstances, a bit of melancholy is warranted. Still, she seemed pretty firey when she was facing off against Stillstorm on the Tempest's command deck. I can never really tell how truthy she's being.


Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:52 pm
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
This is probably the most emotionally vulnerable (and the gentlest in depiction) to the cast she has been. She remembers a time of peace and prosperity. Before the Dark Times. Before the Empire.

I couldn't resist.

But she remembers the relative ease of life before either side were willing to use weapons of mass destruction on eachother. All the others were either too young to remember that time of peace very well or were not alive when it happened.

Berylle and the Piots I am seeing City kid vs Country Kid dynamic or well educated vs salt of the Earth. Classic dynamic for a reason.

I also like how Beryle is trying to either change the subject or do more studying the strange alien with its dietary needs.

Alex: This is called "Meals Ready to Eat" pack or MRE.

Spyral: What's the brown stuff?"

"Mashed potatoes and Gravy."

Spyral: Whats's the green stuff?"

Alex: Green beans.

"What's the grey stuff."

Alex: Its delicious. Don't beleive me, ask the dishes. They can sing, they can dance, after all this is France...


Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:04 pm
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
Liars always get caught up in their stories. That and Alex could easily check the stuff Tempo is telling him with other sources.
I'd be surprised if we ever hear an outright lie from Tempo. She will definitely deflect, like when Alex pressed her on Loroi reluctance to meet humanity.

It's also a nice detail that Tempo is sitting alone. The others have comrades to take their attention away from the situation. Tempo does not for her age, her high rank and or her caste. No wonder she is looking so glum.
I wonder what Fireblades expression is like.


Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:17 pm
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
And so the inner fears of the ladies are revealed one by one. Luckily Jardin is there and will be available for group individual hugs. Yeah, no group hugs. Accidental skin contact and such.


Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:32 pm
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
icekatze wrote:
Beryl is just going straight for all the Loroi cultural taboos. Eating in groups now? What a deviant! :lol:


Surely eating in groups is a loroi cultural norm, not taboo?


Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:51 pm
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Post Re: Page 170: What I fear...
icekatze wrote:
hi hi

Beryl is just going straight for all the Loroi cultural taboos. Eating in groups now? What a deviant! :lol:

(Also, to paraphrase a quote: 'I'm not interested in finding truth, that is the purview of religion. As a scientist, I'm concerned with quantifying doubt.')

I didn't take Tempo for being so pessimistic, although I suppose given their current circumstances, a bit of melancholy is warranted. Still, she seemed pretty firey when she was facing off against Stillstorm on the Tempest's command deck. I can never really tell how truthy she's being.


Wouldn't surprise me that much if she sees meeting Alex - and humanity, by extension - as the one good thing that made this ordeal worthwile. And having that taken away by an even more jaded officer because she'd be too dense to see the bigger picture? Sure that might rile up someone...

And, in light of the Construct's warning... Either Tempo is an actress worth an Academy Award, or she's not that kind of Loroi the Construct warned Alex about. Or... we've seen Tempo being apologetic. Maybe not just for things she did do (or not do), but also for things she will do.


Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:10 am
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