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Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
https://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=844
Page 167 of 170

Author:  Arent [ Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Arioch wrote:
Mr.Tucker wrote:
Question, Arioch: were there any fossils/skeletal remains found from the time of the Fall? If there are, how different were those Loroi compared to todays' ? Were they augmented in any way?

Yes, there are Loroi remains starting around the time of the Fall. The skeletons are not substantially different from modern Loroi, taking into account regional variations over the intervening ~275,000 years.

What sort of "augmentations" do you mean?


Of course outsider is just for fun & i don't expect it to be logical.

However, you are aware that because of selection, the loroi distribution of male/female offspring is unstable and would quickly tend towards a 50/50 distribution if not artificially kept in check?

Author:  Werra [ Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Arioch wrote:
What sort of "augmentations" do you mean?

I'd expect to see medical procedures, artificial teeth, implanted hearing aids, titanium screws and plates and other such stuff. And also scars from space age weaponry. Other kinds of augmentations that might keep as long could be cybernetic upgrades and sidegrades. Maybe something as simple as those plugs modern day Loroi have for amplifiers.
But such things would only appear in the very first generations post-fall.

Arent wrote:
However, you are aware that because of selection, the loroi distribution of male/female offspring is unstable and would quickly tend towards a 50/50 distribution if not artificially kept in check?
That's only true if it's beneficial for a tribe of Loroi to have parity in gender ratios. Which isn't a given, since Loroi are highly dimorphic. More menfolk around puts a higher strain on fewer females to procure more resources.

Author:  Arent [ Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Werra wrote:
That's only true if it's beneficial for a tribe of Loroi to have parity in gender ratios. Which isn't a given, since Loroi are highly dimorphic. More menfolk around puts a higher strain on fewer females to procure more resources.


You mean because the men are so small they can't equally contribute? Could be, but if you have a single mutation that produces a man as large as a common Loroi female that would immediately remove that restriction.

Author:  Arioch [ Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Arent wrote:
However, you are aware that because of selection, the loroi distribution of male/female offspring is unstable and would quickly tend towards a 50/50 distribution if not artificially kept in check?

There are all kinds of Earth organisms that don't have a 50/50 gender distribution, and there are lots of different mechanisms for gender determination (of which X/Y is only one; RI has a really interesting video on the evolution of gender here). Especially given that Loroi genes have been artificially modified (at the very least), I don't think it's implausible that Loroi gender determination could use a mechanism that does not easily allow the distribution to float.

However, even if it could float, I'm not sure it's necessarily the case that it would drift to a more even distribution. I was thinking about the subject some time ago and it occurred to me that there would seem to be a strong selection pressure for females to give birth to more males, since a female with more male offspring will have more descendants. However, there is also significant pressure in the opposite direction in favor of the survival of the group, since a smaller percentage of females means a smaller fighting force and a lower reproduction rate (since total maximum reproduction is limited by the number of females, not males). There are plenty of examples, especially in social animals, of cases where benefit to the group seems to trump the "selfish genes" of the individual, since if the entire group is wiped out, the individual also loses.

One possible adaptation is that the males could get larger, so that they can better participate in key activities. However, another possible adaptation is to make the males as small and few in number as possible, so that they consume the minimum amount of resources. We see the latter adaptation in many Earth species.

Werra wrote:
I'd expect to see medical procedures, artificial teeth, implanted hearing aids, titanium screws and plates and other such stuff. And also scars from space age weaponry. Other kinds of augmentations that might keep as long could be cybernetic upgrades and sidegrades. Maybe something as simple as those plugs modern day Loroi have for amplifiers.
But such things would only appear in the very first generations post-fall.

The number of remains that have been clearly identified as first-generation after the Fall is fairly small. It seems logical that those proto-Loroi enclaves that still had access to ultra-tech tools used methods of corpse disposal that left no observable remains, and so the only surviving examples are ones in which the body was either left in place or else disposed of by lower-tech means (often burned in mass pyres). These examples usually show lower-tech injuries, or more mundane causes of death such as exposure or malnutrition. There aren't any known, unambiguous examples of bone injury such as a blaster might cause.

TL10+ medicine mostly involves regeneration and reconstruction using native tissues, so you can see cases of bone injury that has been healed, but you don't really see the kinds of prostheses and mechanical repairs that you might in modern humans. A healed blaster wound wouldn't look much different from any other kind of healed bone injury, so you would only expect to see a distinctive wound if it happened after ultra-tech medicine was no longer available, or if it was fatal and the body was not disposed of via ultra-tech methods. Loroi tradition holds that the first terrestrial settlements were survivors from the lost dread-stars after the conflict was over; if there were any wounded bearing the distinctive marks of ultra-tech small arms, it seems they did not make it to the surface... or else they died and were disposed of before ultra-tech methods failed.

The only examples of cybernetic augmentation that exist are individuals with psionic amplifiers. There are only a few examples of this, found on Mezan as part of what seems to have been a group that all died together, seemingly of exposure. It was the discovery of this group, along with the remains of manufacturing facilities found elsewhere on the planet, that allowed to Loroi to figure out and replicate the function of the amplifiers.

Author:  Werra [ Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Arent wrote:
You mean because the men are so small they can't equally contribute? Could be, but if you have a single mutation that produces a man as large as a common Loroi female that would immediately remove that restriction.

We can only speculate, but I don't think it would be so simple. There's more to it than size and even then, a large male could be disadvantaged in other ways. Such as being seen as feminine.

@Arioch
Did that group contain examples of both telekinetic and telepathic amplifiers?

Author:  Arioch [ Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Werra wrote:
Did that group contain examples of both telekinetic and telepathic amplifiers?

The examples found on Mezan comprise essentially all the types of amplifiers that are currently used by the Loroi. They haven't really invented much in the field that's new, since they understand how but not really why the amplifiers work.

Author:  Werra [ Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Arioch wrote:
The examples found on Mezan comprise essentially all the types of amplifiers that are currently used by the Loroi. They haven't really invented much in the field that's new, since they understand how but not really why the amplifiers work.
Then Farseers were either included in that original group or don't use specialised amplifiers.

Why do I feel the urge to listen to Saboteurs from Sabaton now?

Edit: It also means there were no amplifiers in circulation on Deinar before they reached Mezan. Which is really strange for a random selection of warriors numbering hundreds. Could Deinarid Loroi all be descended from civilians?

Author:  GeoModder [ Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Werra wrote:
Edit: It also means there were no amplifiers in circulation on Deinar before they reached Mezan. Which is really strange for a random selection of warriors numbering hundreds. Could Deinarid Loroi all be descended from civilians?


I can't remember if it was ever stated on the forum that current-day Loroi civilians are barred from carrying amplifiers.

Besides, it could also be that only the dry conditions on Mezan kept the amplifier artifacts sufficiently intact for study in the current era.

Author:  Arent [ Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Arioch wrote:
Arent wrote:
However, you are aware that because of selection, the loroi distribution of male/female offspring is unstable and would quickly tend towards a 50/50 distribution if not artificially kept in check?

There are all kinds of Earth organisms that don't have a 50/50 gender distribution, and there are lots of different mechanisms for gender determination (of which X/Y is only one; RI has a really interesting video on the evolution of gender here). Especially given that Loroi genes have been artificially modified (at the very least), I don't think it's implausible that Loroi gender determination could use a mechanism that does not easily allow the distribution to float.

However, even if it could float, I'm not sure it's necessarily the case that it would drift to a more even distribution. I was thinking about the subject some time ago and it occurred to me that there would seem to be a strong selection pressure for females to give birth to more males, since a female with more male offspring will have more descendants. However, there is also significant pressure in the opposite direction in favor of the survival of the group, since a smaller percentage of females means a smaller fighting force and a lower reproduction rate (since total maximum reproduction is limited by the number of females, not males). There are plenty of examples, especially in social animals, of cases where benefit to the group seems to trump the "selfish genes" of the individual, since if the entire group is wiped out, the individual also loses.

One possible adaptation is that the males could get larger, so that they can better participate in key activities. However, another possible adaptation is to make the males as small and few in number as possible, so that they consume the minimum amount of resources. We see the latter adaptation in many Earth species.


Well, you could argue that the Soia designed the Loroi such that several mutations would be necessary to overcome the differences between the sexes & that those mutations are even designed to be lethal. In that case, such a development might still occur over long timeframes, but it would be less likely.

Author:  Mr.Tucker [ Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Arioch wrote:
The only examples of cybernetic augmentation that exist are individuals with psionic amplifiers. There are only a few examples of this, found on Mezan as part of what seems to have been a group that all died together, seemingly of exposure. It was the discovery of this group, along with the remains of manufacturing facilities found elsewhere on the planet, that allowed to Loroi to figure out and replicate the function of the amplifiers.


Ty, this was what I wanted to know.

WRT the gender imbalance, I would like to point out that having a small (and presumably isolated, with controlled access) gender (male or female) makes it quite easy to tweak genetic characteristics and see those tweeks carried out through the rest of the populace easily. A single male sires hundreds throughout his life.

Author:  Werra [ Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

What is life like for members of the Imperial Court? How much decadence is there?

Author:  Arioch [ Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Werra wrote:
What is life like for members of the Imperial Court? How much decadence is there?

It's a military command structure, so decadence isn't really a thing... or rather, any decadence is personal in nature and hasn't got anything to do with official proceedings. During wartime, the Emperor and most of her staff are aboard ship and in the field. Cry of the Wind has plush facilities, but Versailles it ain't. There's no royal family or aristocracy, so the people surrounding the Emperor are her staff, not really courtiers.

Greywind has some males with her aboard the flagship, and she gets some flak for this from traditionalists, but they're her relatives; they're not there for her personal pleasure.

We will get to see what a formal reception on board Cry of the Wind looks like, so I won't go into too much detail about it.

Author:  Krulle [ Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Arioch wrote:
We will get to see what a formal reception on board Cry of the Wind looks like, so I won't go into too much detail about it.
Will Alex be allowed to make up some kind of formal suit for the formal reception of Humaniti's first Ambassador to the court of the Loroi?

No, wait. Don't answer that. Show us. When the time is right.

(Don't put effort into answering my question, put the same amount of effort as a first step into the next page, please*, in the hope it might appear sooner.)


*Please with large puppy-eyes.

Author:  dragoongfa [ Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Quick question, it's established that telepathy is FTL with Farsense but does telekinesis share this FTL trait?

Author:  Arioch [ Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

dragoongfa wrote:
Quick question, it's established that telepathy is FTL with Farsense but does telekinesis share this FTL trait?

The range of telekinesis is functionally limited to line of sight (you must be able to somehow perceive the target), so even if there is a lag between the user's thought and the resulting action, I don't think this would have any relevant effects. I'm not sure how such a lag could even be accurately measured.

And just to clarify, although telepathy does operate faster than light, Farsensing is not the exchange of telepathic messages at interstellar distances. It's the passive detection of the locations of minds' telepathic signatures.

Author:  Werra [ Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Passive? Will the comic at one point go into the specifics of farsensing?

Author:  Arioch [ Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Werra wrote:
Passive? Will the comic at one point go into the specifics of farsensing?

Yes.

Author:  Ithekro [ Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Telekinetic chocking via viewscreen.

Author:  jterlecki [ Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

From a human biologist perspective, what would be the taxonomy for the Loroi? Or the binomial nomenclature?

Author:  Arioch [ Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

jterlecki wrote:
From a human biologist perspective, what would be the taxonomy for the Loroi? Or the binomial nomenclature?

Alien organisms will require entirely new taxa, since they will be completely unrelated to Earth organisms. I'd be curious to talk to an exobiologist to see what, if anything, they have in mind, in terms of naming conventions, or if they will have to rely on a completely different system.

Our current classification system could be used to describe elements of a new alien ecosystem if we have a chance to study the whole thing, but it will be difficult if not impossible to classify individual organisms out of context to their home ecosystems using our current system.

Author:  orion1836 [ Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Arioch wrote:
jterlecki wrote:
From a human biologist perspective, what would be the taxonomy for the Loroi? Or the binomial nomenclature?

Alien organisms will require entirely new taxa, since they will be completely unrelated to Earth organisms. I'd be curious to talk to an exobiologist to see what, if anything, they have in mind, in terms of naming conventions, or if they will have to rely on a completely different system.

Our current classification system could be used to describe elements of a new alien ecosystem if we have a chance to study the whole thing, but it will be difficult if not impossible to classify individual organisms out of context to their home ecosystems using our current system.


If I were to make a guess, they would likely use our existing taxonomy structure with a single Latin word added to the front to denote planetary ecosystem of origin (and we would retroactively gain one for every lifeform on Earth).

Author:  kiwi [ Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Oh my, all the academics will have a field day. One wonders what the Loroi authorities would make of small but energetic hordes of academics attempting to go everywhere and get into everything.

Author:  Arioch [ Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

orion1836 wrote:
If I were to make a guess, they would likely use our existing taxonomy structure with a single Latin word added to the front to denote planetary ecosystem of origin (and we would retroactively gain one for every lifeform on Earth).

There would need to be a new classification category for the world of origin, to be sure. But I wonder how exobiologists would tackle classification when only presented with a few species.

Then again, I kind of wonder what exobiologists do all day, since there are no actual alien life forms to study. Which is why I suspect they may already be working on this classification problem.

I guess if you have a genetic sample, you can do some speculative work about the organism's evolutionary history. But I think our current methods of estimating age by rate of mutation requires multiple samples. If you only have one, you don't know what's a "mutation" and what isn't.

And in particular, biologists looking at the Loroi genome are going to be very confused.

Author:  orion1836 [ Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Arioch wrote:
And in particular, biologists looking at the Loroi genome are going to be very confused.


"Even the DNA is blue... how is the DNA blue?"

Author:  boldilocks [ Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

orion1836 wrote:
Arioch wrote:
And in particular, biologists looking at the Loroi genome are going to be very confused.


"Even the DNA is blue... how is the DNA blue?"

"Huh, they look like women, sure enough, but I don't see the Kitchen chromosome anywhere in here..."

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