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Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread 
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
SaintofM wrote:
Krulle wrote:
The Chinese themself see the one child policy as a success, otherwise they'd still be greeting each other with "Have you eaten already today?"

It was necessary, to allow the agriculture to catch up to feed everyone, and to be able to concentrate on the economy as a next step.

It was not a beloved idea, but it worked.


Until you take into account that you potentially have one child growing up shouldering the responsibility of caring for two sets of grand parents and their own aging parents.

Or the fact the one child policy also means that said one child is now often catered to the point they are often called little meatballs or emperors, the former referring to the rise in child obesity.

Or the fact that due to cultural norms that their revolution hadn't snuffed out that there are tons of men without a native Chinese woman to marry, not by choice but because there isn't one around. Forcing many to either mail order bride, bride kidnapping. This has also caused a profitable rise in real dolls to cope with said loneliness.

And the Chinese government says it works until it didn't, and its been bumped to two and they are spending the same amount of time, money, and energy they put into propaganda for the one child to the two child policy.

Also the Chinese government also says they own Taiwan, bans Winnie the Pooh because their leader doesn't like being compared to them, and had an extermination order on a bird species because they called it a pest when in fact it ate the very pests eating their crops.

It's a big mistake to assume that the chinese people and elites are moved by what seem to be mainly liberal bourgeoisie concerns and sensibilities.


Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:56 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
boldilocks wrote:
It's a big mistake to assume that the chinese people and elites are moved by what seem to be mainly liberal bourgeoisie concerns and sensibilities.


This. Mistakes and successes are evaluated differently when a civilisation with a different culture is using a totally different value system.

No one seems to question that an alien species like the Umiak will have a different value system to us ("What? We only lost four divisions and three million civilians on that offensive push? That's twice as good as usual!"), but overlook cultures much closer to home that have different values to us westerners.

L.


Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:11 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Krulle wrote:
It was not a beloved idea, but it worked.

Did it? China's population still increased from 800 million to 1.4 billion from 1970 to 2015 during the period when population "controls" were in effect. There's really no appreciable change in the slope of the curve compared to the previous period, until the late 90's when GDP per capita started to increase, and birth rates likely decreased on their own.

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The Chinese government claimed that the policy prevented 400 million births, but of course, they would say that, and there's no way to confirm or contradict such a claim.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
In the agricultural regions, the one child policy was often not strictly enforced, as agrarians could use every hand on the fields...
The enforcement was often only ini the cities, and in the regiins which the central government wanted to pacify...

Hence, the full effect only showed once the people starting moving to the cities, with the raise of the GDP, and the opening of our markets for their cheap products.

But the main effect was that the childs survived, because beforehand often 5 kids were born, of whcih two dies on malnutrition...

Anyway, there are many more factors at play, including that the one child rule never applied to minorities within China....
And in the curve we also see the full effect of access to medicines and medical treatments.
Quite a few of those still living withint the latest set of data within the graph would've died a lot earlier, reducing the numbers in the stats...
(median age 1970: app. 19.2 years, median age 1990: 23 years, now (2015) it's 36.7 years, https://www.statista.com/statistics/232 ... opulation/)



I agree though, that opening of the western markets for Chinese products, and the consequent sharp rise in wealth, had much stronger effects...

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Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:05 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
The population curve looks very similar to other east Asian countries that had no official population control measures. As populations become more affluent and urbanized, birth rates start to fall... but that's got nothing to do with government-imposed fertility restrictions. It's difficult to make a case statistically that the policy had any effect at all.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
Voitan wrote:
Why not use a drugged up, lobotimized, Loroi brain in a jar, to detect it? "This part of the Loroi brain lights up when detecting telepathic signatures, and these control the perception for distance..." etc...

Because there isn't a "part of the brain" that detects telepathic signatures. Telepathy isn't a mechanical function of the Loroi brain, it's an emergent property of the Loroi mind. If it was a simple mechanical function of the brain, then it would be relatively easy to duplicate.


Surely the "mind" of a Loroi cannot exist without life, and ergo a brain? If an Umiak wanted a telepathic detector, I'm sure they first tried to convince/torture Loroi to be traitors, if not that, try to find what makes Loroi have Telepathy, and make some biological machine out of it.


Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:27 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
SaintofM wrote:
The only way I could think of answering the why have this is, to be frank, some of the dumbest decisions are made by very intelligent people.

I think a much simpler explanation is that the premise was devised by lefty Hollywood writers who don't know the first thing about how the military works.

Voitan wrote:
Surely the "mind" of a Loroi cannot exist without life, and ergo a brain? If an Umiak wanted a telepathic detector, I'm sure they first tried to convince/torture Loroi to be traitors, if not that, try to find what makes Loroi have Telepathy, and make some biological machine out of it.

Sure, a mind requires a brain, but that doesn't make it easy to understand. Point to the part of the human brain that makes humans sapient/sentient/whatever. It should be easy... just compare human brains and animal brains and find the part that humans have that other Earth animals don't have. Except that there is no such part, as far as we know. And it's not just the size of the brain, either; there are less-intelligent animals with larger brains. It's not that simple. Sure, humans are sentient because of how our brains operate, which is related to how our brains are structured, but sentience is an emergent property of the system, of the mind in operation, not of a particular physical feature of the brain that can be easily identified or duplicated.

You might say that this seems to be an incorrect analogy, since "sentience" is merely a question of degree, rather than a binary state; sentience is hard to define because there's no clear dividing line between the capabilities of humans and animal minds, whereas telepathy is much easier to recognize and define. But the way telepathy works in the story is directly related to the concept of the mind: the Loroi are not sending "brain waves" or some measurable medium of communication at each other; telepathy is literally the interaction of two minds on some abstract level that does not involve the physical. This is why telepathy is not limited by the speed of causality and is only affected by physical distance to a certain degree. There's only so much about this that the Umiak can learn by studying a Loroi brain, even a live one in operation. It's like a hunter-gatherer trying to figure out how a smartphone works.

The Umiak have captured and tortured plenty of Loroi, but that doesn't bring them much closer to understanding how telepathy works, because the Loroi don't understand how telepathy works either.

Okay, so you torture or mutilate a Loroi captive so that you get some kind of grotesquerie that will work for you -- and sure, the Umiak have done this. It's not much use as an infiltrator or a double-agent, because it will be immediately identified upon returning to the Loroi -- telepathy makes lying almost impossible. And it's not any use as a telepathic detector, as ordinary Loroi only have a signature detection range of a few hundred meters. A random captured Loroi is not a Farseer.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
hi hi

If the Umiak could raise a creche of Loroi to be loyal to them, they might make for a formidable group of interrogators, even if they could only be used against non-Union targets that the Umiak are expanding into. Even if they had instilled loyalty into a group of orphan children after a generation or two, the truthfulness of telepathy would probably make maintaining that loyalty difficult if they were to start reading the thoughts of other Loroi who weren't raised carefully.

But given the Umiak's overall paranoia and desire for supremacy over the Loroi, I'm not sure that they would take such a route, even if it were feasible. They don't seem like the kind to trust anything they can't do themselves.


Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:55 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Does Trade use any punctuation other than the two marks listed in the Insider (such as equivalents to periods, commas, parentheses, dashes, question/exclamation marks, or quotation marks)?

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Remember since it is future Alex telling the tale, then we have to assume that he survived the deadly peril.


Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:11 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Hālian wrote:
Does Trade use any punctuation other than the two marks listed in the Insider (such as equivalents to periods, commas, parentheses, dashes, question/exclamation marks, or quotation marks)?

Presumably, there are a variety of special-purpose symbols, especially for various professional specialties. But written Loroi Trade is not a conversational or prosaic language, so I don't think there would be too much use for the marks listed above.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
This might have been asked, but have the Loroi discerned *anything* physically detectable in their brains when it comes to telepathy or telekinesis? Any kind of brainwaves that could be measured by TL10 equipment?

We may not understand how exactly the brain works, but we can notice areas of it light up during certain circumstances. I wonder if the same holds true for Loroi brains when they're actively sending or moving something with telekinesis.


Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:44 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
orion1836 wrote:
This might have been asked, but have the Loroi discerned *anything* physically detectable in their brains when it comes to telepathy or telekinesis? Any kind of brainwaves that could be measured by TL10 equipment?

We may not understand how exactly the brain works, but we can notice areas of it light up during certain circumstances. I wonder if the same holds true for Loroi brains when they're actively sending or moving something with telekinesis.

I think there is still some argument among brain researchers about the degree to which human brain functions are either localized or distributed. My own sense of it is that while I think many functions, especially "lower level" motor, sensory or body infrastructure functions are localized to a significant degree (often in the lymbic system or "animal brain"), I think some "higher" functions are more distributed (often throughout the cerebral cortex), and that there's also evidence of some plasticity even in functions that are normally localized. I don't want to pretend to understand a subject that even professional researchers don't fully agree upon, and I don't really want to get into the details of Loroi brain anatomy, so it's probably best to frame the discussion in abstract and hypothetical terms.

The short answer is that what parts of the brain are active depends on what the subject of the psionic activity is. If an individual is engaged in a telepathic discussion about a picture, for example, then all the systems of the brain that you might expect will be active -- communication, reasoning, memory, emotion, visual processing, etc. There is no signature section of the brain that is especially active during psi use... although the brain itself it total (and the entire body metabolism, to a certain extent) may be more active. Although telepathy use is not normally associated with fatigue, psychokinetic use can be. But you can think of this as energy expended in intense concentration and excitation of the metabolism, rather than energy literally being expended to transfer to the moving of objects.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
The brain is the most complex computer known to date, with each section used for different functions. Its also very complicated, like the bossman on the site said.

Its only a misnomer that humans use only 10% of their brain at any given moment (mythbusters busted that with some of the cast using up to 30 at rest).

Simply put the mind controls a vast amount of bodily functions that you rather not have to think about all the time.

A healthy body temperature.
Digestion
Fighting an Infection.
Breathing.
Heartbeat.
Flinching in pain

The use of a hundred percent is called happy seizure time.

I would assume mind over matter abilities like telepathy would need to be even more complex.

I would also assume this would use up more energy. Most of our calorie expenditure is used in maintaining body temp and brain function. This increase in body temp I would assume this would use more energy. THey may need less due to lower body temp.

I am not saying they need to have Super Sayian's bottomless stomach, but I can see them feeling they need a gold medal olympians victory dinner after using them for extended amounts of time.


I could also wonder what the strain on the mind is like. They say humans only have so much will power and/or number of good decision in a day, and that can easily be drained from a hard day at work, putting up with a contentious person, and so on. A soldier like Fireblade might have more fortitude, as most would have to be able to remain calm under fire, but the stress will get to them.


Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:21 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
If running 10 km burns 700-1000 kcal in a human, would it burn the same amount in a loroi, or is their musculature simply more efficient at the point of use.


Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:24 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
boldilocks wrote:
If running 10 km burns 700-1000 kcal in a human, would it burn the same amount in a loroi, or is their musculature simply more efficient at the point of use.

I think the Loroi muscle system is probably slightly more efficient in terms of generating less waste heat, but it's probably not a major difference. I think the largest difference is in the idling state, with a lower body temperature and more efficient homeostasis mechanisms. Humans (and most mammals) burn a lot of energy just sitting around.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
That high body heat has a function, and while it is ineffective in and of itself to produce that heat, it causes faster, and often moderately more efferent chemical reactions in other places in the cells. The Loroi lower body heat might not really be all that much of an advantage in many cases.


Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:48 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
asaenvolk wrote:
That high body heat has a function, and while it is ineffective in and of itself to produce that heat, it causes faster, and often moderately more efferent chemical reactions in other places in the cells. The Loroi lower body heat might not really be all that much of an advantage in many cases.

I think we need to infer that the Soia-Liron body chemistry works slightly differently, and is efficient at this lower temperature. Otherwise, as you mention, it wouldn't be an advantage.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
So, they're not just cold-blooded killing machines?

(I'm sure you=ve read this joke many times before, but could not resist it anyway - sorry)

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Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:57 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
I assume the Loroi can give birth to identical twins but that they would feel different to their sanzai. Is that accurate and would that be well known to the Loroi?


Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:30 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
inxsi wrote:
I assume the Loroi can give birth to identical twins but that they would feel different to their sanzai. Is that accurate and would that be well known to the Loroi?

Loroi can have twins, though this is more rare in Loroi than in humans. Identical twins are formed from the same DNA, but they are two individual organisms, each with a distinct mind, so in terms of telepathic signatures they are not appreciably different from two unrelated persons.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
How large were the original populations of the Sister Worlds after the Fall?

Can the Loroi see traces of genetic bottlenecks in their genome?


Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:52 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Werra wrote:
How large were the original populations of the Sister Worlds after the Fall?

Can the Loroi see traces of genetic bottlenecks in their genome?

There's no way to know for sure... as there are no samples of pre-Fall Loroi or other Loroi populations that did not experience population bottlenecks to compare them to, but the distinct differences in the gene pools of the three Sister Worlds combined with a general lack of diversity suggests that the populations may have gotten quite small in some cases -- perhaps less than 100 individuals on Perrein, for example.

Deinar probably started with a larger population, but suffered repeated bottlenecks due to the overpopulation cycles of the nomadic tribes.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
What's the IQ distribution like for Loroi? Is it the same as in humans, or gender reversed?


Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:30 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
If the loroi are an engineered species I'd expect the IQ distribution to be very clustered around the middle of the bell curve, far more so than in humanity, unless their design allowed for mutations. Then again, telepathy might be such a powerful tool to maintain societal control that extreme IQ outliers would be automatically cleaned out of the gene pool regardless of mutations.
Then again, a telepathic society could counteract the human need for stable middle-of-the-road levels of IQ and therefore allow for a wider distribution without it negatively affecting societal health, thus less clustering around the middle.


Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:26 am
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