Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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GeoModder
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by GeoModder »

Werra wrote:The second salvo also only came when Alex made that comm call to the Lieutenant(?). Could be a coincidence, but to me it all strongly indicates that their assailants desperately wanted to remain hidden from the combatants.
Its more likely the assailants were just hitting the biggest pieces again.
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Murph
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Murph »

GeoModder wrote:
Werra wrote:The second salvo also only came when Alex made that comm call to the Lieutenant(?). Could be a coincidence, but to me it all strongly indicates that their assailants desperately wanted to remain hidden from the combatants.
Its more likely the assailants were just hitting the biggest pieces again.
Could it be that the assailants were the Historians?

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icekatze
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi
Murph wrote:Could it be that the assailants were the Historians?
It's a popular theory, and there's certainly no concrete evidence to suggest they didn't. There's really not a whole lot of evidence one way or another, but the Historians do seem pretty paranoid, and it's hard not to feel likewise in return.

The big unanswered question usually boils down to: "Why?"

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Werra
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Werra »

It seems to be a ship that wants to remain hidden from both sides. One more Umiak ship wouldn't make a difference to the Loroi and the Umiak wouldn't much care about a Loroi affiliated one either.

Personally I believe a yet unknown species send out that ship.
SpoilerShow
Mostly because I predict the Bellarmines data to be key in the investigation and the Historian to be the one digging it out of there.
We'll see in the 40s.

asaenvolk
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by asaenvolk »

Well a hidden Umiak ship would be motivated to prevent a strange ship hailing the Loroi and tipping their hand and letting the Loroi knowing they were there, even if they were planning on showing themselves soon, never tip you hand too soon.

boldilocks
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by boldilocks »

icekatze wrote:hi hi
Murph wrote:Could it be that the assailants were the Historians?
It's a popular theory, and there's certainly no concrete evidence to suggest they didn't. There's really not a whole lot of evidence one way or another, but the Historians do seem pretty paranoid, and it's hard not to feel likewise in return.

The big unanswered question usually boils down to: "Why?"
They're on the side of the Loroi, and the Loroi are losing. I'm gonna assume the Historians are well aware of that fact.
Perhaps they offered the Umiak a deal: Leave historian space alone, and we'll supply you with the technology and tactical data you need to end this war decisively.

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GeoModder
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by GeoModder »

Thing is, the Umiak have already proven they won't leave Historian space alone. The Historians haven't even reconquered all of their former territory yet on the Umiak since their invasion back in 2139 CE. And that was 20 years ago.
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boldilocks
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by boldilocks »

GeoModder wrote:Thing is, the Umiak have already proven they won't leave Historian space alone. The Historians haven't even reconquered all of their former territory yet on the Umiak since their invasion back in 2139 CE. And that was 20 years ago.
That invasion could be considered part of the larger Umiak invasion of Loroi territory. If the Historians sell out what is effectively all of Loroi space, that would give the Umiak all they need in terms of new worlds for new materiel, possibly enough for them to agree to leave Historian space alone for the immediate future, which would give the historians enough time to enact other plans. (To employ their superior technology and so forth)

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GeoModder
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by GeoModder »

If the Historians were planning on selling out the Loroi anyway, why going with an alliance with the Union then? And why the technology transfer, ensuring the Union fleet can hold its own against the Umiak onslaught that much better?

No, to me this betrayal theory sounds too farfetched.
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boldilocks
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by boldilocks »

GeoModder wrote:If the Historians were planning on selling out the Loroi anyway, why going with an alliance with the Union then? And why the technology transfer, ensuring the Union fleet can hold its own against the Umiak onslaught that much better?

No, to me this betrayal theory sounds too farfetched.
The immediate alliance most likely came because they'd just been invaded and needed backup immediately. Possibly they expected the Loroi to be more effective allies. Perhaps the Loroi comparatively lackluster performance in implementing new technology only became apparent as the Historians tried to help them upgrade their fleet.

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icekatze
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

Maybe the Historians always planned to betray the Loroi and are just trying to buy time until they finish building their doomsday superweapon? It's hard to know what they're really thinking, they're pretty mysterious.

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Werra
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Werra »

Another option is that the Historians aren't as strong as they would like everybody to believe. Maybe they don't have the manpower for an actual war, for example. It's not certain that they are traitors.

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icekatze
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

The Historians certainly have a technological edge over the other powers, this is pretty clear insider information. But they also readily ceded territory when the Umiak invaded. Whether they would like people to believe it or not, or if they actually have strength or not, they're not really presenting themselves as strong.

They might not be traitors, but it's still hard to trust someone you know nothing about.

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SaintofM
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by SaintofM »

icekatze wrote:hi hi

The Historians certainly have a technological edge over the other powers, this is pretty clear insider information. But they also readily ceded territory when the Umiak invaded. Whether they would like people to believe it or not, or if they actually have strength or not, they're not really presenting themselves as strong.

They might not be traitors, but it's still hard to trust someone you know nothing about.
Tech edge doesn't always win if the tactics, the qualifications of the powers to be, or military might can work.

Just using a video game example, just about every race has an tech edge over Space Orks and Tyranids in Warhammer 40,000, but no one has been ale to wipe them out.

Eldar are one of the most technologically advanced races in the game but are still a dying race.

Tau also have a better grasp of tech then the humans, but have vastly smaller numbers and territory.

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Ithekro
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Ithekro »

Since these races are semi-based on the races in Masters of Orion, which race do the Historians represent again?

Incinerator
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Incinerator »

Here's my theory:

The Historians did shoot down the Bellarmine, but not because they had anything against the ship or Humanity as a whole. Instead, they have been attempting to prevent any instance of contact between Humanity and the warring powers of the area, by shooting down any ships that might reach the other side of the Empty Quarter. There is precedence for this; the Historians have gone out of their way to protect the Pol, which lie within their own borders. Perhaps this is their only means of protecting Humanity, as they lie well outside the Historians' own borders. But ships have been leaking through because of the demands war has placed on them.

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Zarya
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Zarya »

GeoModder wrote:No, to me this betrayal theory sounds too farfetched.
The thing that makes me doubt it is the fact that the Pocket Historian asked permission to be installed, it could probably have proceeded without asking. It’s a detail that counts (for me at least).

Krulle
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Krulle »

Ithekro wrote:Since these races are semi-based on the races in Masters of Orion, which race do the Historians represent again?
The Orions.

Technically advanced, and not interacting with races anymore (likely having left the galaxy), a few highly automated machines / constructs are running a defence of their world, also no expansionist drive. And very few attendands, more to make the other races feel comfortable than having a real use for biological bodies anymore.

Although the historians do seems to be more like librarians of the Soia knowledge.
Maybe they are just that, and as such very pacifist. IMO, this is also supported by them still collecting information, as "Historian vessels continue to crisscross the breadth of known space and beyond, but most of what they learn is kept to themselves".
And likely their tactic in case of losing the war, is to pack up everything and just leave.
Like they did when the Umiak invaded some systems.

They do not seem to be very planet-bound for their economy, nor for population.
They do seem to be region-bound, likely because they are defending and protecting something there, e.g. the Pol; but in case of defeat I think they'll just pack things up and are gone.
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

nweismuller
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by nweismuller »

Ithekro wrote:Since these races are semi-based on the races in Masters of Orion, which race do the Historians represent again?
Four arms and advanced technology? The Psilons.

boldilocks
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by boldilocks »

Zarya wrote:
GeoModder wrote:No, to me this betrayal theory sounds too farfetched.
The thing that makes me doubt it is the fact that the Pocket Historian asked permission to be installed, it could probably have proceeded without asking. It’s a detail that counts (for me at least).
Then again, it didn't ask permission to go rooting through the Bellarmine data storages.

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