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Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread 
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
..., so they're gradually going to lose usable water.


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Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:46 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
On page 135 one of the loroi says "this is no safe heaven"

Do loroi have religion?


Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:55 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Zorg56 wrote:
On page 135 one of the loroi says "this is no safe heaven"

Have you meant "haven"?

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Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:07 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Oh i misreaded that, sorry.


Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:18 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
There's an Emperor. Are there also lower ranks of nobility for the Loroi?

Would say the position of secretary of state come with a (nominal) duchy?


Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:17 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Werra wrote:
There's an Emperor. Are there also lower ranks of nobility for the Loroi?

Would say the position of secretary of state come with a (nominal) duchy?

There's no hereditary aristocracy; all titles including the Emperor are appointed.

Some titles do have special privileges and property attached.

There are powerful families, which at times rose almost to the level of local aristocracies, but their influence has been curtailed by law since the conclusion of the Splinter Wars and the establishment of the Imperial government.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
but their influence has been curtailed by law since the conclusion of the Splinter Wars.

Long live the foot clan


Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:47 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Do Loroi think of ships as something with a gender, like humans do?

Arioch wrote:
There's no hereditary aristocracy; all titles including the Emperor are appointed.

This is propably difficult to answer, but would appointments of a certain level be comparable to being given a title of nobility* or would they feel more like a modern promotion to director?


*Which were regularly non-heritable in our history as well, btw.


Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:43 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Werra wrote:
Do Loroi think of ships as something with a gender, like humans do?

Among Loroi, ships are usually thought of as feminine. But kind of for the opposite reasons from our own history.

Werra wrote:
This is propably difficult to answer, but would appointments of a certain level be comparable to being given a title of nobility* or would they feel more like a modern promotion to director?

Without the title being hereditary, I'm not sure there's all that much difference between the two.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Do Loroi emergency suites have some kind of build-in toilet?

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
SVlad wrote:
Do Loroi emergency suites have some kind of build-in toilet?

There would be some provision for urine (which I don't plan to detail), but not for solid waste. It's a flight suit, and not designed to be worn for that long.

To get an idea, here's an article about how such things were dealt with by pilots wearing pressure suits in the SR-71: https://theaviationgeekclub.com/how-to- ... blackbird/

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
SVlad wrote:
Do Loroi emergency suites have some kind of build-in toilet?

There would be some provision for urine (which I don't plan to detail), but not for solid waste. It's a flight suit, and not designed to be worn for that long.

To get an idea, here's an article about how such things were dealt with by pilots wearing pressure suits in the SR-71: https://theaviationgeekclub.com/how-to- ... blackbird/


Speaking of, do starship crews eat more compact food then planetbound people in order to reduce these needs even further?


Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:57 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Sweforce wrote:
Arioch wrote:
SVlad wrote:
Do Loroi emergency suites have some kind of build-in toilet?

There would be some provision for urine (which I don't plan to detail), but not for solid waste. It's a flight suit, and not designed to be worn for that long.
To get an idea, here's an article about how such things were dealt with by pilots wearing pressure suits in the SR-71: https://theaviationgeekclub.com/how-to- ... blackbird/

Speaking of, do starship crews eat more compact food then planetbound people in order to reduce these needs even further?

Most of the crew on a starship don't have a regular need to wear pressure suits for long periods, and starships have adequate toilet and waste storage systems, so this is not really a consideration. Though it is true that Loroi eat and drink less per day than humans normally do.

Loroi small craft that are capable of very long duration missions will usually have some kind of toilet facility (as the shuttle does). Even if you're wearing a pressure suit, you can get out of it far enough to take care of business. Unless the cockpit has depressurized, in which case something has gone wrong, and you won't be able to eat or drink, either.

Pilots of Loroi small craft that don't have toilet facilities will be in a situation analogous to the SR-71 pilot in the above linked example. He said that he personally never had to use the urine system; he just limited his intake of fluids. And if you poop before the mission, that shouldn't be a problem either. But in the worst case scenario, you just go in the suit.

Note that these are flight suits, not full EVA suits like Alex's. The latter would probably need more robust waste systems.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
hi hi

One of the thing that always makes me roll my eyes is when I hear news about some company's brand new cool space suit, and when I look at it, it's an IVA suit, not an EVA suit. Not really fair to boast about how much less bulky it is than an EVA suit. :P


Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:03 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
Among Loroi, ships are usually thought of as feminine. But kind of for the opposite reasons from our own history.

Is Trade a gendered language in which every subject has a genus, like German and French for example?

Arioch wrote:
Without the title being hereditary, I'm not sure there's all that much difference between the two.
There are a lot of differences, but most aren't readily apparent to a modern person, since we don't think in those categories anymore.
The most important difference is propably that nobility is not something one does, it's what one is. A director can clock out of work and be otherwise an ordinary citizen. A noble can not.
Nobility is far more a judge of character than a job is. A good comparison might be the respect the US pays its veterans. Once attained that respect is bound to the person and losing it would require a truly public disgrace.

It's likely the Lorois understanding of nobility -if they have one- is hugely different. But let's say they have. Where would nobility start for them? What rank/position does one need to attain?


Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:39 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Werra wrote:
Arioch wrote:
Among Loroi, ships are usually thought of as feminine. But kind of for the opposite reasons from our own history.

Is Trade a gendered language in which every subject has a genus, like German and French for example?

No, Trade is mostly gender neutral, as you might expect of an interspecies lingua franca. But in the English translations I'll be using feminine pronouns.

Werra wrote:
Arioch wrote:
Without the title being hereditary, I'm not sure there's all that much difference between the two.

There are a lot of differences, but most aren't readily apparent to a modern person, since we don't think in those categories anymore.
The most important difference is propably that nobility is not something one does, it's what one is. A director can clock out of work and be otherwise an ordinary citizen. A noble can not.

Well... people in high corporate or political office don't get to "clock out" of their jobs either. If there's a crisis at 3 AM, you're getting a phone call. If you get caught in a compromising situation, it doesn't matter that it happened outside of office hours. The same can be said of pretty much any public servant or member of the military; I don't think it has much to do with the positions being hereditary.

What it does mean is that you can quit or get fired, and that you have to demonstrate some kind of qualifications to get the job in the first place.

Werra wrote:
Nobility is far more a judge of character than a job is. A good comparison might be the respect the US pays its veterans. Once attained that respect is bound to the person and losing it would require a truly public disgrace.

There are plenty of historical examples of aristocrats acting like complete barbarians; I don't buy that they're inherently "noble" in character. I think that's largely a modern affectation. In a world where modern aristocrats have very little political power, of course the courtly trappings and manners and reputation concerns of their class become paramount.

Werra wrote:
It's likely the Lorois understanding of nobility -if they have one- is hugely different. But let's say they have. Where would nobility start for them? What rank/position does one need to attain?

The warrior class itself is a sort of hereditary "upper class," in a sense, similar to the samurai class of Japan or what the knightly landed class eventually became in Europe. Warriors are held to a strict code of conduct, and they can be demoted if they do not adhere to that code. Members of the military do not "clock out"

And as I mentioned, there are still powerful families. Ashrain certainly has more influence than her rank demands because she is related to the currently serving Emperor, and as we will see, the Emperor's nephew gets to do things that a male would not normally be allowed to do. But that only goes so far. The Loroi mostly idolize heroes for their abilities and accomplishments rather than their parentage.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
And as I mentioned, there are still powerful families. Ashrain certainly has more influence than her rank demands because she is related to the currently serving Emperor, and as we will see, the Emperor's nephew gets to do things that a male would not normally be allowed to do. But that only goes so far. The Loroi mostly idolize heroes for their abilities and accomplishments rather than their parentage.
This tidbit here is why I read your replies.
So, we are going to see a Loroi male.
And he does things a normal warden of the state would not be allowed to do.
And it spoils the outcome of the hiding in system: somehow they will be rescued.

And now I feel stupid, as it occured to me I am taking the wrong conclusion: "we will see" does not necessarily mean "graphically shown", it might just be a story told by either of the present Loroi to pass the time. Or as reaction (from beryl) to a proposal by Alex the others decline because it comes from a male (or would endager the male).

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Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:09 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
Werra wrote:
Nobility is far more a judge of character than a job is. A good comparison might be the respect the US pays its veterans. Once attained that respect is bound to the person and losing it would require a truly public disgrace.

There are plenty of historical examples of aristocrats acting like complete barbarians; I don't buy that they're inherently "noble" in character. I think that's largely a modern affectation. In a world where modern aristocrats have very little political power, of course the courtly trappings and manners and reputation concerns of their class become paramount.
It's an affectation, but not a particularly modern one. As I understand it, the idea basically pops up every time that entry into the nobility becomes restricted, both to justify that limitation, and to justify the nobility of the members of the noble class. Nobility itself has seemingly always been about being allowed more immunity in your relations with others; it historically was basically just an entry on the outlaw/slave/commoner/noble/sovereign scale, where you get a waiver for poor treatment of lower classes for being in a higher class. The ancient systems of e.g. the Saxons seem to have basically been a sort of "de-facto tribe" system, where just being a merchant with a certain number of ships (and thus employees) was enough to qualify you for nobility.


Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:26 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Krulle wrote:
Arioch wrote:
And as I mentioned, there are still powerful families. Ashrain certainly has more influence than her rank demands because she is related to the currently serving Emperor, and as we will see, the Emperor's nephew gets to do things that a male would not normally be allowed to do. But that only goes so far. The Loroi mostly idolize heroes for their abilities and accomplishments rather than their parentage.
This tidbit here is why I read your replies.
So, we are going to see a Loroi male.
And he does things a normal warden of the state would not be allowed to do.
And it spoils the outcome of the hiding in system: somehow they will be rescued.

And now I feel stupid, as it occured to me I am taking the wrong conclusion: "we will see" does not necessarily mean "graphically shown", it might just be a story told by either of the present Loroi to pass the time. Or as reaction (from beryl) to a proposal by Alex the others decline because it comes from a male (or would endager the male).


I get the impression that the loroi hangups on males are restricted to their own species, they are probably very aware that their own 1/8 sex ratio are unique for a two sex species. They find Alex odd because that he is so similar to themselves, yet there are these odd differences. An Orgus Alex would not have been considered odd speaking of a 1/1 sex ratio and male warriors.


Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:28 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Absalom wrote:
Arioch wrote:
Werra wrote:
Nobility is far more a judge of character than a job is. A good comparison might be the respect the US pays its veterans. Once attained that respect is bound to the person and losing it would require a truly public disgrace.

There are plenty of historical examples of aristocrats acting like complete barbarians; I don't buy that they're inherently "noble" in character. I think that's largely a modern affectation. In a world where modern aristocrats have very little political power, of course the courtly trappings and manners and reputation concerns of their class become paramount.
It's an affectation, but not a particularly modern one. As I understand it, the idea basically pops up every time that entry into the nobility becomes restricted, both to justify that limitation, and to justify the nobility of the members of the noble class. Nobility itself has seemingly always been about being allowed more immunity in your relations with others; it historically was basically just an entry on the outlaw/slave/commoner/noble/sovereign scale, where you get a waiver for poor treatment of lower classes for being in a higher class. The ancient systems of e.g. the Saxons seem to have basically been a sort of "de-facto tribe" system, where just being a merchant with a certain number of ships (and thus employees) was enough to qualify you for nobility.


I think the problem here is the conflicting definitions of "aristocracy". Plato envisioned a true aristocracy, where the actually best rule. In reality, aristocracies were often just a privileged group, which was established by force - when one tribe conquered another & the conquerors were generally treated better than the subjects.

In fact, the 'nobility' often started as 'barbarians'. The idea of a 'rule by the best' is completely distinct from that.


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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arent wrote:
I think the problem here is the conflicting definitions of "aristocracy". Plato envisioned a true aristocracy, where the actually best rule. In reality, aristocracies were often just a privileged group, which was established by force - when one tribe conquered another & the conquerors were generally treated better than the subjects.

I think the biggest problem with hereditary rule is that it almost guarantees that succeeding generations of leaders will be incompetent. With a few notable exceptions, the worst possible future ruler is one who's been told his whole life that it's his God-granted destiny to rule. It's simple human nature to excel only when challenged, and to stagnate (or worse) when there is no challenge, and so the history of hereditary monarchy is a repeating cycle of a capable monarch followed by a short succession of increasingly incompetent spoiled brats who screw things up to the point where a capable leader must emerge and put things right; rinse and repeat. I was recently watching a documentary on the kings of England, and it was remarkable that there was a major revolt or civil war pretty much every other reign. With the aristocratic class in general, the problem was even worse, since there was less direct pressure on a lesser title than the monarch himself, and incompetence could persist for even longer.

Arent wrote:
In fact, the 'nobility' often started as 'barbarians'. The idea of a 'rule by the best' is completely distinct from that.

Nearly all aristocratic classes established their authority by force, as warriors. So in that sense, it is 'rule by the best', at least in terms of martial ability. Affectations of gentility come later.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
No, Trade is mostly gender neutral, as you might expect of an interspecies lingua franca. But in the English translations I'll be using feminine pronouns.

There's a certain irony in the phrase gender neutral lingua franca. I would expect that Trade follows whatever rules the first species that used it and gave it prominence used. Or are you saying that Trade is a purpose built language?

Arioch wrote:
Well... people in high corporate or political office don't get to "clock out" of their jobs either

Yeah...but there's at least a person besides the director or civil servant there that's in theory equal to everybody else. Before the adaptation of universal citizenship, aristocracy was just a category of people one either fell into or not. And came with a lot of legal and social perks.

Just out of curiosity, if you had to give Stillstorm a human title of nobility, which one would you give her?

Arioch wrote:
I think the biggest problem with hereditary rule is that it almost guarantees that succeeding generations of leaders will be incompetent.

In todays world of public schooling and good baseline education of the whole populace (and nutrition and such matters a non concern), that's true. But when virtually the only people with an education are part of the aristocracy/rich, matters look different.


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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Werra wrote:
Arioch wrote:
I think the biggest problem with hereditary rule is that it almost guarantees that succeeding generations of leaders will be incompetent.

In todays world of public schooling and good baseline education of the whole populace (and nutrition and such matters a non concern), that's true. But when virtually the only people with an education are part of the aristocracy/rich, matters look different.

There isn't really a form of rule that doesn't lead to incompetence, though there's an argument that hereditary rule better controls for the well-being of the people and the nation being in the interest of the ruler. (Ie, if you pass down the nation to your children you'll be more interested in maintaining it than if you're in power for 4-8 years, in which case your best bet is to scam as much money out of it as you can while you're in power.)


Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:12 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Werra wrote:
Arioch wrote:
No, Trade is mostly gender neutral, as you might expect of an interspecies lingua franca. But in the English translations I'll be using feminine pronouns.

There's a certain irony in the phrase gender neutral lingua franca. I would expect that Trade follows whatever rules the first species that used it and gave it prominence used. Or are you saying that Trade is a purpose built language?

Whether it was a simplified version of an existing language or created from scratch is not known (as it predates the Soia fall), but it seems clearly adapted for international use, with a minimum of declination and other unnecessary complexities, and using a reduced phoneme set.

But there's no reason a natural language has to be gendered, especially since many of the intelligent species in the local bubble don't even have genders.

Werra wrote:
Just out of curiosity, if you had to give Stillstorm a human title of nobility, which one would you give her?

Stillstorm's title is Lashret, which is the commander of a warship and a minor flag officer. There are properties and perks that go along with this title, but it doesn't translate well into European aristocratic titles, which are mostly tied to land management (baronies, counties, duchies, etc.).

Werra wrote:
Arioch wrote:
I think the biggest problem with hereditary rule is that it almost guarantees that succeeding generations of leaders will be incompetent.

In todays world of public schooling and good baseline education of the whole populace (and nutrition and such matters a non concern), that's true. But when virtually the only people with an education are part of the aristocracy/rich, matters look different.

Except that wealth and aristocracy were not always the same thing; the merchant middle class was often richer and better educated than the aristocracy, and frequently had more real-world management experience.

I'm not suggesting that there were better systems of government available at the time. I'm just pointing out what I think is the primary flaw in hereditary rule.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Although - that did depend on what European country you are looking.

In England - yep - major merchant class, wealthy and tended to be VERY well educated. In The Netherlands - yep - and no hereditary government, unless you count the "Prince of Orange"...

France or Spain - not so much... Both countries (for different reasons) didn't develop a very strong merchant class and that is part of what brought down their systems (also, in different ways).


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