page 178: Beryl's time of her life

[Werra]

Now taking into account the relative average heights for Loroi women (5'7" or 170cm) and men (a little less than 5 feet, lets say 4'9", 145 cm to be sure) and the average heights for Human women (5'4" or 162 cm) and men (5'7" or 170 cm) it doesn't seem that human men are too tall to be considered disproportional.

Careful, 5 feet is not the average height of Loroi males. They rarely grow taller than 5 feet, which could put their average at 4'5''. Depending on what counts as rare. Yet even with an average male height of 5 feet, that would mean virtually every single Loroi female would be comfortably taller than the tallest male.

That's quite the change. I'd be very careful about making assumptions about attraction between the species. Especially when we consider that Loroi are described as xenophobe and socially very conservative.

Realistically, Alex should be a freakshow.

[Sturzkampf]

You can hear the debriefing in Lorloi intelligence.
"Typical. We finally find a race of compatible humanoids with an abundance of males to enslave and they all turn out to be as ugly as sin."
"Maybe we could keep the lights out, or put a paper bag over their heads or something."
"Now, now, let's not be pessimistic. The males can't all be tall, broad shouldered and muscular. There must be a few properly-proportioned short, thin ones in the population. We can pick out the best for ourselves."

[Quickdraw101]

There's also the fact that human males will likely be bigger in other ways, which can certainly count for something. Lot more than just height and strength that human males are superior in.

[dragoongfa]

Now taking into account the relative average heights for Loroi women (5'7" or 170cm) and men (a little less than 5 feet, lets say 4'9", 145 cm to be sure) and the average heights for Human women (5'4" or 162 cm) and men (5'7" or 170 cm) it doesn't seem that human men are too tall to be considered disproportional.

Careful, 5 feet is not the average height of Loroi males. They rarely grow taller than 5 feet, which could put their average at 4'5''. Depending on what counts as rare. Yet even with an average male height of 5 feet, that would mean virtually every single Loroi female would be comfortably taller than the tallest male.

That's quite the change. I'd be very careful about making assumptions about attraction between the species. Especially when we consider that Loroi are described as xenophobe and socially very conservative.

Realistically, Alex should be a freakshow.

The key words in my argument are 'proportional' and 'disproportional'. It all comes down to the ratios and proportionality of one's body; the 'golden mean' to put it bluntly. Human women can be 'hot' and 'attractive' on heights ranging from 'short' (a little less than 5 feet) to very 'tall' ( over 6 feet, nearly two meters) provided that their bodies and features are healthy and proportionate.

Alex is for all intents and purposes 'proportionate'.

[Werra]

Alex is proportionate for a human. A Loroi male of his size does not exist. You can't just compare him to tall women. You'd have to compare him to a fantastic creature, such as a giant or troll, height wise.

[dragoongfa]

Loroi males don't suffer from dwarfism, their legs, arms, torsos and heads are proportionate to their bodies as if they were humans of similar height. Taking one of their males and proportionally making him as tall as Alex wouldn't automatically make them freaks of natures as humans with Gigantism.

[Werra]

Loroi have stronger sexual dimorphism than humans. Imagine a human woman of impossible tallness. She'd be a freak of nature, no matter how well proportioned she was.

[dragoongfa]

Loroi have stronger sexual dimorphism than humans. Imagine a human woman of impossible tallness. She'd be a freak of nature, no matter how well proportioned she was.

The analogue in terms of height would be about 190cm to 200cm. A quick google search produces results that are quite pleasing to the eye:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Tall+wo ... KSaqLoJIWM

[Arioch]

Alex is almost a foot taller than a typical Loroi male. The average height for a human female is just a touch over 5 feet; while a six foot human woman is unusual, she is hardly a grotesque freak. Some of the most successful supermodels were 6' (looking at you, Elle MacPherson). It might be socially awkward to have a girlfriend who is taller than you, but it doesn't follow that her size makes her unattractive.

Now, it's not a perfect analogy, and nobody's going to be asking Alex to become a model, but people with gigantism or dwarfism aren't unattractive because of their size; it's because of the deformities caused by their disorder. Also, the contrast would be much more extreme if Alex was over 6' and more ruggedly built.

In terms of size, humans have roughly similar sexual dimorphism to Loroi. Loroi have a greater average difference in height (about 8", as opposed to about 6" in humans), but humans differ much more widely in weight; Loroi males are built similarly to females, whereas human males are much more heavily built.

[SaintofM]

Alex is almost a foot taller than a typical Loroi male. The average height for a human female is just a touch over 5 feet; while a six foot human woman is unusual, she is hardly a grotesque freak. Some of the most successful supermodels were 6' (looking at you, Elle MacPherson). It might be socially awkward to have a girlfriend who is taller than you, but it doesn't follow that her size makes her unattractive.

Now, it's not a perfect analogy, and nobody's going to be asking Alex to become a model, but people with gigantism or dwarfism aren't unattractive because of their size; it's because of the deformities caused by their disorder. Also, the contrast would be much more extreme if Alex was over 6' and more ruggedly built.

In terms of size, humans have roughly similar sexual dimorphism to Loroi. Loroi have a greater average difference in height (about 8", as opposed to about 6" in humans), but humans differ much more widely in weight; Loroi males are built similarly to females, whereas human males are much more heavily built.

So, it would be more odd if he were to be built say like Conan the Barbarian is traditionally depicted.

Size wise, it doesn't sound too extreme of a difference. If it was something closer to Peter Dinklage and Gwendoline Christie it sounds like Alex might be even more of a curiosity. ANd yes, this has happened before in fiction (the Guardians in Green Lantern).

[Diodri]

Beryl watched human movies, looking for an appropriate pickup line.

SpoilerShow

XDXD

I was going to make this edit when I woke up today, I guess you beat me to the punch.

[Overkill Engine]

Beryl watched human movies, looking for an appropriate pickup line.

Growing up on a desert planet understandably has made her thirsty.

[novius]

Alex is almost a foot taller than a typical Loroi male. The average height for a human female is just a touch over 5 feet; while a six foot human woman is unusual, she is hardly a grotesque freak. Some of the most successful supermodels were 6' (looking at you, Elle MacPherson). It might be socially awkward to have a girlfriend who is taller than you, but it doesn't follow that her size makes her unattractive.

In a nutshell,

• his height may be a bit unsettling to Loroi who are accustomed to their males being shorter, but he's not freakishly tall, just at the upper end of the curve.
• he is a bit more muscular and solidly built than his Loroi counterpart.
• the ratios of head/limbs/torso size (which are skewed in cases of gigantism/dwarfism) are well within Loroi norms, as those are pretty similar to human norms.

So I'd say that his height and bulk may be a bit off-putting to the Loroi on the slim/small/waifish side (Cloud, for example, or most of the civilian Loroi, I presume, lacking combat and physical training), but I think it might even actually counting in his favor towards equally tall and buff Loroi. Those Loroi who would otherwise have to fear to break their males in two when things get going. Yes, Fireblade might actually serve as an example for that.

[raistlin34]

I think the biggest turnoff for Loroi is when they discover humans males grow hair on their faces (and chest, abd legs, and...)

[Krulle]

And YES, Beryl IS making a pass... NO, I don't think Alex was thinking about what the construct told him, but YES, Alex is Also making a 'pass' {at a safe distance} at Fireblade!

He is specifically ignoring the fact that he's been told the Teidar view speech as a preamble to a challenge he is IN-FACT doing that on purpose it IS a challenge to her.. not the physical kind of challenge to violence but a social one.. he IS in fact poking the bear cause..well he likes her and wants her attention.

Thus Alex IS making a pass at her ~ flirting, its clear in his expression!

"Was sich liebt, das neckt sich."

There's no literal translation, but
"Those who like each other banter" is about as close as I can get...

Seems to fit what you're trying to describe...

[orion1836]

Friendly reminder... while we may like her, Alex most definitely does not.

You know, for reasons.

[sunphoenix]

Friendly reminder... while we may like her, Alex most definitely does not.

You know, for reasons.

Uhm... I'm not sure where to start with this.

All I can rely on is my years of experience as a human male and say that when I have DECIDEDLY disliked someone the last thing I do is regard them in my presence. I ignore them, people who I'm concerned will try to harm me or inflict harm on me the last thing I ever would do would be to 'tease them' in social banter. I am socially distant, cold and curt with people I dislike... regardless of gender. If I Hate someone, being I'm a mature adult I usually just avoid being near them or regarding them if I must be in their presence.

These are not the consistant reactions observed from Alex.

From what I have noticed about female humans when they dislike someone they usually behave socially aggressive typically getting their peers to gang up on them...to some extent male humans do that to... but I was raised better than to bully people I dislike {I also try to find the good in everyone so its rare that I actually 'dislike' anyone}, generally I just avoid people I dislike.

But this is not the reaction Alex has demonstrated in his expression and behavior, but only time will tell.

[orion1836]

Uhm... I'm not sure where to start with this.

All I can rely on is my years of experience as a human male and say that when I have DECIDEDLY disliked someone the last thing I do is regard them in my presence. I ignore them, people who I'm concerned will try to harm me or inflict harm on me the last thing I ever would do would be to 'tease them' in social banter. I am socially distant, cold and curt with people I dislike... regardless of gender. If I Hate someone, being I'm a mature adult I usually just avoid being near them or regarding them if I must be in their presence.

These are not the consistent reactions observed from Alex.

From what I have noticed about female humans when they dislike someone they usually behave socially aggressive typically getting their peers to gang up on them...to some extent male humans do that to... but I was raised better than to bully people I dislike {I also try to find the good in everyone so its rare that I actually 'dislike' anyone}, generally I just avoid people I dislike.

But this is not the reaction Alex has demonstrated in his expression and behavior, but only time will tell.

I respectfully disagree.

The biggest indicator in my mind is that Alex refers to Fireblade as a harpy in his own internal voice. There is no reason for him to filter his opinion internally so what you see is what you get. At the very least, Alex dislikes her. If his internal voice is meant to be his narration to an unseen audience years later, then the characterization is even more damning because he still thinks of her as a harpy. Furthermore, he is visibly disappointed in the news that she will be accompanying him on the shuttle flight.

Within a day of his arrival, this one Loroi forcefully mind-probed him in what he described was a painful experience and telekinetically shoved him to the floor for seemingly no reason. Given this, I view small antagonisms like needling her about not speaking or this latest attempt to draw her out in the same way I would a little brother who is trying to get back at an older brother without invoking parental wrath or getting his ass kicked.

Now, I honestly can't judge how Fireblade feels about Alex. If pressed, it's probably something like cold indifference or annoyance.

[boldilocks]

The biggest indicator in my mind is that Alex refers to Fireblade as a harpy in his own internal voice. There is no reason for him to filter his opinion internally so what you see is what you get. At the very least, Alex dislikes her. If his internal voice is meant to be his narration to an unseen audience years later, then the characterization is even more damning because he still thinks of her as a harpy. Furthermore, he is visibly disappointed in the news that she will be accompanying him on the shuttle flight.

It's also possible that he's doing the characterization as a demonstration that he did distrust her at first but look at them now, happily married and telling his kids about how he met their mother.(Or as a warning to the human fanatics he's instructing in how to insurrect against the loroi tyrants, with his band of loroi traitors led by fireblade). Ie, "Distrust the pleasant science elves, only harpies will do right by you."

[icekatze]

hi hi

I think it's pretty clear that Fireblade makes Alex uncomfortable, in times when he's looking at her but not directly interacting with her, his expressions are generally unhappy or guarded.

But I feel like the way he is prodding Fireblade is less about him getting even, and more about him trying to disarm the tension by inviting casual remarks, even if they're at his expense. For his sake, if nothing else, having Fireblade respond in kind would probably make him feel more comfortable.