Well of Souls Forums

icekatze wrote:hi hi

Perrein cuisine, eat your heart out!

It is a little surprising that Alex knew the word for milk, coming strictly from non-loroi version of trade language. I'm betting that this will be a good segue into an explanation that humans did, in fact, evolve on their own planet with a wide variety of animals that have similar characteristics.

Unlike the Loroi, who if I'm not mistaken, don't really have beasts of burden. I'm not sure if the Loroi have any livestock or not, but given the eclectic nature of Soia-liron biology, even if they do have livestock there's no guarantee that it was based on a template anything like the Loroi.

You could suspect that at a certain tech level, livestock is simply not efficient anymore. Beryl might know such things only from history lessons.

hi hi

Arent wrote:You could suspect that at a certain tech level, livestock is simply not efficient anymore. Beryl might know such things only from history lessons.

If I recall correctly, even when the Loroi were a pre-industrial civilization, they didn't have any large livestock that could be used as beasts of burden. I don't recall if they ever domesticated small animals, but the impression I got was that livestock wasn't a big part of Loroi civilization even at low tech levels.

As for other Union members, I know the Barsam were almost entirely reliant on a single crop for a long period of time, but I don't know about any of the others.

SaintofM wrote:The horror when they realize how the dairy industry works.

Or potentially given Blue/Orange morality...inspired.

icekatze wrote:hi hi

Arent wrote:You could suspect that at a certain tech level, livestock is simply not efficient anymore. Beryl might know such things only from history lessons.

If I recall correctly, even when the Loroi were a pre-industrial civilization, they didn't have any large livestock that could be used as beasts of burden. I don't recall if they ever domesticated small animals, but the impression I got was that livestock wasn't a big part of Loroi civilization even at low tech levels.

As for other Union members, I know the Barsam were almost entirely reliant on a single crop for a long period of time, but I don't know about any of the others.

Heh. It would be amusing if the biggest upfront contribution humanity had to offer the Union was non engineered biodiversity of flora and fauna and exotic cuisine. Resort worlds for war weary soldiers to visit!

Human systems become the greece of the Loroi union.

It's not surprising that Loroi have a word for 'milk', they are a mammalian(-based) species after all, following the generic pattern of humans... it's just that the idea of adults consuming what is meant for the young - not even talking about of different species - is totally alien to them, pun intended.

And given Beryl's reaction of shock and embarrassment, wet-nursing seems to be as personal to Loroi as it is to humans. I'm quite sure she would have had an easier time if Alex had suggested to move a bit away from the others for some sexytimes...

Deinar is a young world, and so its native life is still limited to microorganisms in the oceans. All of the larger forms are transplanted Soia-Liron organisms, most of which were wiped out in the bombardments at the end of the Soia era, so Deinar has only an artificial ecosystem, and a partial one at that. The largest non-Loroi land animal on Deinar is the miros, which is similar to a boar. In the absence of other large organisms, miros have radiated into a variety of niches and forms, but they're still mainly useful only for their meat and hides. They're not large or powerful enough to ride or use as draft animals, and though they are mammaloid and do feed their young on milk, they are temperamental and not easily milked; much like Earth pigs, even the domesticated ones are uncooperative and become aggressive when nursing.

Taben is also younger than Earth, with more complex marine life than Deinar, but with mainly introduced plants and very few animal forms on its limited land areas. Both the northern and southern Tabenid Loroi depended mostly on sea life for food.

Since redevelopment of starflight and contact with a wide variety of alien ecosystems, the Loroi have been exposed to all kinds of exotic foods and food practices that they had no previous experiences of on the Splinter Worlds, so they will probably have heard of dairy products and exotic eggs (as well as draft animals and riding animals). But I think most of a culture's basic food practices are established in antiquity; dairy farming is really beneficial for primitive cultures, but by TL9 there's not a very compelling reason to get into it if you're not into it already, even if you gain access to alien cows.

And, the Loroi that Alex is talking to are young soldiers who have spent their entire lives either training or deployed on starships. It's not as if they've had a lot of opportunities to travel and sample alien delicacies, and I think it's unlikely that military rations include much alien caviar or Camembert.

Now, of course the subject of Tempo and Perrein is a different matter, but we'll get into that.

Krulle wrote:But I'm more astonished, that Alex knew the word for "product of lactating breastfeeding animal" in standard.
It would not be among the words I would consider as "likely to be used at all".

icekatze wrote:It is a little surprising that Alex knew the word for milk, coming strictly from non-loroi version of trade language.

Well, the fluency with which Alex and the Loroi are able to communicate is somewhat unrealistic in general, given that Alex learned a different dialect and had less than a year to study... but it's a conceit that is kind of necessary to the narrative. Having the characters constantly misunderstand each other would get irritating pretty fast, especially in the comic format (where it's not really practical to pantomime or have the narrator constantly summarizing interchanges).

However, I think milk (or something like it) is going to be relatively common among the various alien species; it's one of a limited number of strategies for nourishing infants to quickly grow out of their most vulnerable stage, and a pretty good one. Though the various alien races will have a variety of different child-rearing strategies, I think more than a few of them will use something like milk. And in particular, several of the Soia-Liron species (including the Loroi) feed their infants on milk. And since the Trade Language originated with the Soia, I think it makes sense that it has a word for milk in most of its dialects, including those that have nothing to do with the Loroi.

Arioch wrote: But I think most of a culture's basic food practices are established in antiquity; dairy farming is really beneficial for primitive cultures, but by TL9 there's not a very compelling reason to get into it if you're not into it already, even if you gain access to alien cows.

Goats, sheep and chicken are amazing at what they do. Especially in a sparse eco-system they could become very popular. TL9 or not, there's little that's more efficient than these animals.

The Loroi not making much use of livestock is actually surprising to me. They claim they're descendants of the Soia, so I would have expected the Loroi to practice genetic engineering of whole species as well. At a lower tech level, but still...

Arioch wrote:And, the Loroi that Alex is talking to are young soldiers who have spent their entire lives either training or deployed on starships. It's not as if they've had a lot of opportunities to travel and sample alien delicacies, and I think it's unlikely that military rations include much alien caviar or Camembert.

I'm sure they will overcome their surprise quickly after their own two years of hunting and gathering.

Oh my lols. This definitely requires a fanart before next page is up. Beryl is out by her own words, so vote anyone else, who would be the volunteering lactating donor!
Also, you can also define if she should be shy and tries to milk into cup at corner or proudly bring her assets out to give the taste directly from the source.

Edit: It took while to remember that loroi at as race might abhor direct touch with strangers, but I quess as Alex wouldn't have any alien presence, he might feel like using handpump or even as own child due some autosympathic response, like one making you believe of being hurt if you see "yourself" being hurt but not actually feeling it.

Werra wrote:Goats, sheep and chicken are amazing at what they do. Especially in a sparse eco-system they could become very popular. TL9 or not, there's little that's more efficient than these animals.

The Loroi not making much use of livestock is actually surprising to me.

I'm not saying they don't make use of livestock. I'm saying that if you didn't pick up the practice of consuming other animals' milk products in antiquity, I don't see a compelling reason to start at TL9.

I'm told that insects are a very good source of protein and can be very sustainably farmed. That doesn't mean I'm going to start eating bugs any time soon.

Werra wrote:They claim they're descendants of the Soia, so I would have expected the Loroi to practice genetic engineering of whole species as well. At a lower tech level, but still...

The Loroi are a warrior culture that could barely care less about other species. They engage in farming and other domestic activities only when they have to, and they have a dedicated caste of "failed warriors" to do it. Prior to the war, they were also complete masters of their surroundings; they had nothing to prove except their valor. Their image of the Soia is as warriors like themselves, and their direct ancestors; if they thought about it at all (which most probably don't), they probably assume that any tinkering with pig genes was done by some menial subordinates.

But in any event, I don't see why the Loroi would engineer an animal for dairy production when dairy goods are something they have no traditional use for.

Arioch wrote:The Loroi are a warrior culture that could barely care less about other species. They engage in farming and other domestic activities only when they have to, and they have a dedicated caste of "failed warriors" to do it. Prior to the war, they were also complete masters of their surroundings; they had nothing to prove except their valor. Their image of the Soia is as warriors like themselves, and their direct ancestors; if they thought about it at all (which most probably don't), they probably assume that any tinkering with pig genes was done by some menial subordinates.

So they are basically Klingons...

boldilocks wrote:Human systems become the greece of the Loroi union.

"Greece"? Do you perhaps mean "grease"?

jterlecki wrote:

Arioch wrote:The Loroi are a warrior culture that could barely care less about other species. They engage in farming and other domestic activities only when they have to, and they have a dedicated caste of "failed warriors" to do it. Prior to the war, they were also complete masters of their surroundings; they had nothing to prove except their valor. Their image of the Soia is as warriors like themselves, and their direct ancestors; if they thought about it at all (which most probably don't), they probably assume that any tinkering with pig genes was done by some menial subordinates.

So they are basically Klingons...

Not Klingons... Eldar!

jterlecki wrote:
So they are basically Klingons...

Dunno, if telekinesis is even remotely common, it explains a lot about the 'fight because bored honor'.

I liked the facial expressions on that page.
It's a challenge to portrait blushing over a blue skin.

"I....I am not currently lactaiting!" Ahahahahahahahahahahahah XDXDXD

orion1836 wrote:I have no photoshop skills, but a Beryl-shocked-face version of the old school Got Milk? ads would be perfect.

Nor do I, but what I do have, is 20 years experience in MS Paint. Here is my edit. I do hope you enjoy.

Ha!

^--- (2 up) OMG priceless! *LOL*

Ahem... In general, milk is an emulsion of fat in water, plus some traces of minerals and other stuff. The fat can also come from plants, by heart I could name soy milk, almond milk and cocoa milk. Not sure whether anyone would want some plant based milk in their coffee or tea... I just hope that Alex, the Guardian of the Garden, remembers to mention that when the awkwardness ensues (Also, there is margarine as a replacement for butter and there is tofu.)

Krin wrote:If Alex doesn't get nicknamed Milkman I'm going to be wholeheartedly disappointed.

Or teased for having the appetites of a child.

Arioch wrote:Losing the ability to digest lactose in adulthood seems like a pretty random "adaptation." I would be curious to know whether this is common in other mammals as well... but I would be surprised if there is a lot of data on this.

A quick search suggests that both dogs and cats can also be lactose intolerant as adults, so it may be that there's a specific advantage to losing this ability, or perhaps it's just a common quirk to mammalian biochemistry.

It's more a question of whether it's worth keeping around the capacity to digest stuff that you're never eating anymore.

From what I've heard, it's safe to give cats milk if you've given them milk since they were kitten and you've never stopped. Otherwise, it gets them sick.