Page 157: "This is not MY datapad!"

[novius]

"That isn't my datapad", just following the time honored line of "This isn't what it looks like."

And of course the construct had listened in to their earlier words about "nakedness taboos" - maybe it wasn't just its sense of humor, but aimed to be a good diversion once Beryl deciphers the meaning of the word. Of course she would have some words with Alex about this

[GeoModder]

I wonder if part of Beryl's skeptical look in panel three is due to the compact nature of the device, given humanity's apparent advanced level of data processing. (Given the nature of a deep space expedition with a crew working for extended periods in isolation, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd already recovered some bits of human recreational material.)

Well, I'm not so sure about that. Its not because a Historian construct can manipulate an inactive device the Loroi can. And appearantly humans can learn quite a bit of Loroi holographic imaging.

About the 'bucket', it looks like the Loroi assume a Historian construct cannot activate it from within, so neither the Loroi are safe from power-off intrusions. At least I assume the 'bucket' is a Loroi-made device.

[dragoongfa]

Now I wonder; if the construct is primarily an ambassador wouldn't that mean that it is meant to self adapt its personality according to the people it interacts with?

Its first appearance was while it 'convened' with Tempo and Mozin. It was both straightforward and passive aggressive in its dialogue, straightforward while trying to 'convince' Tempo about the difficulty of the situation and passive aggressive in its put down of the 'joke' that the Loroi were playing at and its snide against the Barsam. Straightforward and truthful should work great with the Loroi and passive aggressive because the Loroi are also passive aggressive in their own way since 'words' are tools of deception and as such using words is in a way inherently 'dishonorable'. The snide against the Barsam could be born out of a natural dislike of the Barsam dourness and religiosity to a fault.

Humans however, they are new, interesting and are an open book for the Historian A.I. construct. It is bound to adapt and by the looks of things it is adapting well, too well as a matter of fact. I wonder if this adaptation will affect its interactions with the Loroi and the Barsam by allowing it to see them under a different light.

[cacambo43]

I wonder if part of Beryl's skeptical look in panel three is due to the compact nature of the device, given humanity's apparent advanced level of data processing. (Given the nature of a deep space expedition with a crew working for extended periods in isolation, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd already recovered some bits of human recreational material.)

Well, I'm not so sure about that. Its not because a Historian construct can manipulate an inactive device the Loroi can. And appearantly humans can learn quite a bit of Loroi holographic imaging.

About the 'bucket', it looks like the Loroi assume a Historian construct cannot activate it from within, so neither the Loroi are safe from power-off intrusions. At least I assume the 'bucket' is a Loroi-made device.

Unless and until we know more, to me it seems like a bridge too far for a Historian AI construct to get so familiar with human culture (at least those aboard Bellarmine) to understand what pornography *is* (which humans to our own point in history really haven't defined) and then to further abbreviate it to "porn" and then further associate it with a smiling pictogram of another seemingly human-centric and iconic depiction of an alien. But I'll trust Arioch has a direction and it isn't "merely" fan service.

CJSF

[icekatze]

hi hi

Even if the Historian construct is just a chinese room, I would wager that the alien icon and the terminology were things that already existed in messages between crew members.

[cacambo43]

hi hi

Even if the Historian construct is just a chinese room, I would wager that the alien icon and the terminology were things that already existed in messages between crew members.

[nods]
OK, fair enough!

CJSF

[Werra]

About the 'bucket', it looks like the Loroi assume a Historian construct cannot activate it from within, so neither the Loroi are safe from power-off intrusions. At least I assume the 'bucket' is a Loroi-made device.

If it's true that the Loroi don't know about power-off intrusion, then the Historian just let slip a major secret of theirs. It can not guarantee Alex won't spill that knowledge to his "captors". If they know about it, the Loroi presumably have some way of negating or mitigating its effectiveness.

@Grey smilie
You just know Greys were plastered all over the human systems. It was a mission to make contact with aliens.

[GeoModder]

The 'secret' was out anyway since it claimed to convey a message from the Barsam captain.
It's of course always possible the Barsam and Historians are 'thick as thieves' regarding their dealings with the Loroi, so the Barsam would not throw this tidbit of capabilities to their fellow Union members.

[icekatze]

hi hi

Assuming the Historian construct was telling the truth about the Barsam, and that it hasn't actually just contacted the Umiak to make the pickup, I don't think the Barsam have any way of effectively hiding information from the Mizol.

[novius]

Is it just me or is there anyone else thinking that Beryl has been uncharacteristically rude with simply picking the pad straight out of Alex's hands? Especially since his expression tells us that the construct didn't hide itself (yet) at that point.

Of course, with Beryl not knowing of the device's capabilities and limitations there could be some legitimate reasons, like...

• She needs to verify that it is not a threat to their current situation, despite Alex's claim. (She might not know the term 'wireless communication')
• Simple curiosity overriding her sense of tact
• The Loroi considering salvage as 'theirs' and Alex having no claim of ownership

Though, in the light of the last panels I have the suspicion that she is concerned about this "data appliance" having picked up something the Loroi don't want the lone human to know. For example, no one would know what the salvage crews talked about while bringing in the stuff from the Bellarmine wreck.

Real Life example: Even today no one can really be sure what Amazon Alexa and the Google smart speakers pick up and what not - there are already examples of these devices listening in and recording where they shouldn't have.

[Errhile]

hi hi

Assuming the Historian construct was telling the truth about the Barsam, and that it hasn't actually just contacted the Umiak to make the pickup, I don't think the Barsam have any way of effectively hiding information from the Mizol.

True.
Then again, the Historian construct is likely to be well-versed in information security. And one of the primary rules in that area is "need to know".

You can't spill what you don't know, regardless of methods used to pry that information from you. Even a telepath picking your brain won't learn info that simply ain't there.

Therefore I'm pretty sure the Historian construct was pretty cautious about what it told the Barsam, being fully aware this info would be rather easy for Loroi to pick. And while the same can't be said about humans (due to their Lotai), same rules shall apply: the Historian construct must have assessed the probability of it becoming known to Loroi, and possible damage it would cause.

Also, since we had the idea about Historians themselves being familiar with Humanity from their own ventures... perhaps the "Gray Alien" face icon isn't there by accident. Remember that we (nor Loroi, IIRC) don't known how an actual Historian looks like.
They just as well could be the Gray Aliens themselves

[novius]

If it's true that the Loroi don't know about power-off intrusion, then the Historian just let slip a major secret of theirs. It can not guarantee Alex won't spill that knowledge to his "captors". If they know about it, the Loroi presumably have some way of negating or mitigating its effectiveness.

The Loroi seem to be reasonably suspicious about the Historian's capabilities. And the construct itself said that human computer technology, while being advanced (for their tech level, of course), still is behind the loop when it comes to power-off intrusion countermeasures. So it's reasonable to assume that Loroi computers do indeed have some counters in place.

About that - it looks to me that the construct, despite its boasts, couldn't just simply fiddle around with the bits on the device's mass storage - else it could have simply overwritten the OS or completely installed itself. To me it looks like it was just able to bypass the switched off WiFi to connect to the device and deliver itself via mail.

[boldilocks]

If it's true that the Loroi don't know about power-off intrusion, then the Historian just let slip a major secret of theirs. It can not guarantee Alex won't spill that knowledge to his "captors". If they know about it, the Loroi presumably have some way of negating or mitigating its effectiveness.

The Loroi seem to be reasonably suspicious about the Historian's capabilities. And the construct itself said that human computer technology, while being advanced (for their tech level, of course), still is behind the loop when it comes to power-off intrusion countermeasures. So it's reasonable to assume that Loroi computers do indeed have some counters in place.

About that - it looks to me that the construct, despite its boasts, couldn't just simply fiddle around with the bits on the device's mass storage - else it could have simply overwritten the OS or completely installed itself. To me it looks like it was just able to bypass the switched off WiFi to connect to the device and deliver itself via mail.

It's also possible that the "will you allow me to install myself on your device" is an act of courtesy by the historian construct. Ie, here's a potential ally, let's not start off this relationship by hacking into their systems.

[CF2]

Looks like chatting with the Historian's AI will be happening at a later time, now that the Loroi are going to be joining Alex in there.

I'll bet Talon and Spiral give him a little grief about wearing his "ugly" jumpsuit over the Loroi EVA suit, and encourage him to slip out of it if he gets too warm wearing the extra layer.
Wonder if seeing Alex in Loroi clothing will change any attitudes toward him.

[Mithramuse]

Unless and until we know more, to me it seems like a bridge too far for a Historian AI construct to get so familiar with human culture (at least those aboard Bellarmine) to understand what pornography *is* (which humans to our own point in history really haven't defined) and then to further abbreviate it to "porn" and then further associate it with a smiling pictogram of another seemingly human-centric and iconic depiction of an alien. But I'll trust Arioch has a direction and it isn't "merely" fan service.

CJSF

Never know, it could at least have copied the name from some directory hidden several layers under the typical files. Or seen something similar on multiple data pads, presuming it was looking at more than one of them... not so much of a stretch, if that is the case.

--Mithramuse

[icekatze]

hi hi

Then again, the Historian construct is likely to be well-versed in information security. And one of the primary rules in that area is "need to know".

I was replying to Geomodder who seemed to be replying to Werra's statement about the Loroi not knowing about the Historians' power-off intrusion abilities.

The Barsam captain would need to know that the Historian was capable of sending the message to a powered off receiver in order to send a message to a powered off receiver, thus giving up the secret, if that ability was in fact a secret. And if the Barsam captain knows, there is a high likelihood that the Loroi will find out, or have already found out through telepathy.

[Werra]

How does the Barsam know what happens on the shuttle? Through the Historian. As long as he doesn't tell the Barsam the truth, the chance for them finding out that detail seems small.

[icekatze]

hi hi

How does the Barsam know what happens on the shuttle?

Page 155.

• The Barsam have sensors too. They know the shuttle is powered down to avoid detection.
• Assuming the construct is telling the truth, Captain Rigai Mozin of the Agumo courier vessel Prophet's Reason knows that the construct can securely deliver a message and provide location information, the secret in question, because he asked the construct to securely deliver a message and provide location information.
• This appears to be a capability that the Loroi and the Barsam do not possess themselves, or they would have done it themselves.

[bunnyboy]

About power-off intrusion, let me think
- microgravity mapping (could sense density the object and location of the power source, etc)
- providing current into selected parts of circuit by electromagnetic waves (wireless energy)
- physical manipulation (who says that historian construct could not flip the powerswitch by itself)

[GeoModder]

hi hi

How does the Barsam know what happens on the shuttle?

Page 155.

• The Barsam have sensors too. They know the shuttle is powered down to avoid detection.
• Assuming the construct is telling the truth, Captain Rigai Mozin of the Agumo courier vessel Prophet's Reason knows that the construct can securely deliver a message and provide location information, the secret in question, because he asked the construct to securely deliver a message and provide location information.
• This appears to be a capability that the Loroi and the Barsam do not possess themselves, or they would have done it themselves.

You can consider ship sensors out. Otherwise the Umiak divisions bearing down on Gora Relay (or what remains of it) has a better chance to pick up the Highland-7 shuttle.
I'm more curious how Historian constructs keep contact with one another over interplanetary distances without the apparent use of electromagnetic signals, not to mention intrusions of disabled data systems over planetary distances.