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Page 153: You've got Mail! 
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Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:42 pm
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
novius wrote:
Third, how did the Historian AI end up on the shuttle, too? I'm sure it wasn't on the original passenger roster.


That's the actual question. And did you notice how it inconspicuously hid in the corner of the previous Pages :shock:


Mon May 06, 2019 12:24 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
For those who want to be inspired to check up the 'trashcan' in its first appearance, check here
Better view on page 65.
You can see the "handles" are slightly differently coloured. That may be a trick due to a different lighing though, but it got me asking how many of those "crude containers" are on the Loroi-Union (and possibly Umiak Hierarchy) ships in storage, forgotten?
But on closer inspection, the handle also has a different form. The original one on the bridge went more like a paper-clip back down again, in the middle.
This current one does not.
So, how many of those things are flying around in known space and beyond, possibly even on Earth?

"crude vessel" may therefore be a reference to the age of the device, and how sturdy they are compared to more modern state-of-the-art Historian personality construct supporting architecture.

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Mon May 06, 2019 12:52 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
So is this bucket actual computer running ambassador AI application?
I've thought this bucket is just a holographic projector and an actual AI application runs on server on board of Prophet's Reason.

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Mon May 06, 2019 1:17 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
Prophets Reason is in-system currently, isn't it? That changes a few things, of course.


Mon May 06, 2019 1:34 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
novius wrote:
First, obviously the Historian AI managed to decrypt the tablet, figure out communication frequences and protocols on an alien device and whatnot. That might be reasonable. But it begs the question... did it share its knowledge with the Loroi? If it did, Beryl would have been untruthful when she referred to the devices as "unknown".

Quote:
Third, how did the Historian AI end up on the shuttle, too? I'm sure it wasn't on the original passenger roster.

Let's assume nope. For all we know, it was loaded to the shuttle back before the battle, to be shipped over to Mozin's ship, but the sudden appearance of the Umiak fleet scrapped those plans, and it sat in the shuttle since then, halfway forgotten. Which would suited the local Loroi command (Stillstorm and Tempo) well, as it was cut off from the ship's more sensitive systems.

Quote:
Second, the AI can "fake" being in standby and be aware of the surroundings. It waited until Alex was alone. And I'm quite sure it would have checked for hidden cameras and listening devices as well. Good thing to know.
Even if it's checked for, there is no reason the Loroi could recognize every part's true purpose. Some sensors, like microphones can be a secondary functions of other parts, if you allow lesser resolutions. Like it couldn't eavesdrop on anything happening far away but at least can tell that there is some activity around it.

As for being in standby, well, they could have constructed it in a way that it'd shutdown completely when it detects scanning attempts, but otherwise have a subsystem running low level surveillance on it's surroundings all the time, waking the higher levels when it sees fit.

Quote:
Fourth, we can be pretty sure the AI already learned everything worthwile about the humans. It's reasonable to assume that it downloaded everything from the tablet, and others, and maybe what remained of Bellarmine computer core, if it went to work back on the Tempest.
Depends how long it had access to the salvaged stuff. Loroi don't give access to their communications systems to these AI's for a good reason, but if it have been stored next to the salvaged PADs and stuff for a long time, it could have done more than bit of snooping around. Remember, the current shuttle flight took a few hours since leaving the Tempest already.

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Yep, it more and more looks like the Historians have their own agenda and maybe some "helpers" inside the rest of the Union.
Everyone has an agenda.

Quote:
The contents of the message? It could be a warning - either cryptic or a clear one - that things are not as they seem to be, or it could be an offer Alex would be hard pressed to refuse, and one the Loroi shouldn't know about.

In addition, the AI seems to put a lot of trust that Alex's Lotai will hold for the time being. What use would be a clandestine message if any Loroi could lift it from his mind?

Risks have to be taken.

SVlad wrote:
So is this bucket actual computer running ambassador AI application?
I've thought this bucket is just a holographic projector and an actual AI application runs on server on board of Prophet's Reason.

Not giving access to your ships' comms system to foreign entities with unknown, but more than likely way better tech than you, is a sane and cautious approach to these things. So it's self contained AI in a can, with limited resources.


Mon May 06, 2019 1:43 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
folti wrote:
Not giving access to your ships' comms system to foreign entities with unknown, but more than likely way better tech than you, is a sane and cautious approach to these things. So it's self contained AI in a can, with limited resources.

Passing a byte stream through without decoding it is generally more secure than keeping an working alien computer on board.

Also, ambassador said it is
Quote:
personality construct transmitted from Captain Mozin's courier into this crude container.

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Mon May 06, 2019 2:14 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
Spoiler: show
Watch the patreon spoilers people

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Mon May 06, 2019 2:24 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
Arent wrote:
novius wrote:
Third, how did the Historian AI end up on the shuttle, too? I'm sure it wasn't on the original passenger roster.


That's the actual question. And did you notice how it inconspicuously hid in the corner of the previous Pages :shock:


Either it can move by itself - and the Loroi don't know about it since it was carried around on the Tempest - or there is someone in league with the Historians who secreted the "can" onto the shuttle. And said someone would have to be on the shuttle, too, since the original plan was to transfer to the Clearbrook and from there to Seren. And I don't think the AI planned to be just there for a round trip in the shuttle.

Either way, the Historians do seem to play their cards close to their proverbial chests.


Mon May 06, 2019 2:32 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
SVlad wrote:
folti wrote:
Not giving access to your ships' comms system to foreign entities with unknown, but more than likely way better tech than you, is a sane and cautious approach to these things. So it's self contained AI in a can, with limited resources.

Passing a byte stream through without decoding it is generally more secure than keeping an working alien computer on board.


You have to unpack the stream to turn it into audio/video on both end. Which would allow the other side to try to inject data to exploit vulnerabilities. Also, in that case you can't control what resources the AI on the other ship uses, which could include them hacking into the other ship's systems and use everything too. Or pay off the crew to allow it. Mozin and crew are mercenaries after all ...

Quote:
Also, ambassador said it is
Quote:
personality construct transmitted from Captain Mozin's courier into this crude container.

Construct under transfer is not active, and cannot be ran by any systems it passes through. Just like any executable you download from the net is not runnable by your router, or any other devices it passes through net. Or even by your desktop, unless it's been specially constructed for that scenario.


Mon May 06, 2019 2:40 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
I'm thinking based on the Dramatis Personae that the Emissary may have uploaded itself into the Pad.

Yes, as some have noted, the Emissary claimed to be being transmitted to the container from Mozin's ship, but even if that were true (Historians would never lie!) that doesn't preclude copying itself to the container and from there to the Pad. It could have done both.

In terms of narrative, having an AI in your PDA is more interesting than just having a PDA (that seemed to be mostly for ship operations duties, for a ship that no longer exists.)

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Mon May 06, 2019 6:01 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
Onaiom wrote:
The dramatis personae was sneakily updated some time ago :

Quote:
Historian Emissary, a virtual personality construct sent on behalf of the mysterious Historians to communicate with other races and collect information. Remarkably flexible as to what kind of hardware it can inhabit, the Emissary transmits itself from device to device as the situation demands. Unsure of the full capabilities or motives of such constructs, the Loroi are careful to restrict access of their own computer systems.

Well, this part was already present in 2009, 9 1/2 years ago:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090626123 ... /cast.html (snapshot from 26 June 2009).

Sneakily added right at the start of the comic.
Kikitik-27 apppeared sometime later.

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Mon May 06, 2019 7:47 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
Arioch wrote:
CrimsonFALKE wrote:
why would an alien construct wish to load up into an IPAD?

I doubt very much one would. Luckily in 2160, the evil organization known as Apple no longer exists. This particular device was manufactured by a firm called Robin Instruments.

In 2001 when page 8 was first created, there was no such thing as an iPad (or an iPhone), and what we now call a tablet was called a PDA, and the most popular one was by a company called Palm that no one has heard of anymore.

I remember the palm damn I feel like a Boomer. Still why does it want to be in a dated device unless it needs some bro time with Alex.


Mon May 06, 2019 3:07 pm
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
Arioch wrote:
sunphoenix wrote:
"A tight fit, especially around the chest..."

Is Alex simply so much bigger than the Loroi females or do they purpose build in a subtle sports-bra in the fabric for added support? Since females are more likely the ones to be wearing spacesuits? Kinda makes sense...

Even if they are roughly the same height, a female will tend to have wider hips but a much smaller chest (even with the addition of breasts) than a male.


A woman's center of gravity is the hip and buttocks not her chest


Mon May 06, 2019 3:46 pm
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
CrimsonFALKE wrote:
Arioch wrote:
CrimsonFALKE wrote:
why would an alien construct wish to load up into an IPAD?

I doubt very much one would. Luckily in 2160, the evil organization known as Apple no longer exists. This particular device was manufactured by a firm called Robin Instruments.

In 2001 when page 8 was first created, there was no such thing as an iPad (or an iPhone), and what we now call a tablet was called a PDA, and the most popular one was by a company called Palm that no one has heard of anymore.

I remember the palm damn I feel like a Boomer. Still why does it want to be in a dated device unless it needs some bro time with Alex.


Still I think a full-fledged AI would need more processing power than a mobile device which is just designed to display data and be connected to a remote server would offer.

Though, at the "angry walk out" of the AI in http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider065.html it said they'll "speak again, soon enough" - it's reasonable to assume that it planned its actions from the very start, and that includes scanning and downloading data from all functional human equipment while still residing on the Tempest.


Mon May 06, 2019 10:59 pm
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
novius wrote:
Still I think a full-fledged AI would need more processing power than a mobile device which is just designed to display data and be connected to a remote server would offer.
Nothing would stop it to send only a cut down version of itself though, that can fit and run on the device at a reasonable speed.


Mon May 06, 2019 11:24 pm
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
Another thing comes to my mind.

Neither Beryl nor Talon seemed to have noticed the "stowaway". Did they just assume that the AI was supposed to come along or were they all too distracted by Alex's presence? :)

Though, in all fairness, Alex himself did notice the projector can just now, after it made its presence known.


Mon May 06, 2019 11:34 pm
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
Werra wrote:
Aw yeah, bromance initiated. What are the chances that the Historians are actually chill dudes who don't plan on betraying anyone?


Ah ha ha ha ha! :lol:


Mon May 06, 2019 11:53 pm
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
raistlin34 wrote:
Will be one of those cryptic messages about "nothing is what it seems", "don´t trust anyone" or "your cellphone could be a Decepticon in disguise" which usually leaves the protagonist in full paranoid mode? :mrgreen:


"Dude how do I buy more gold for Bejewel Battlefield 2044?"


Tue May 07, 2019 12:11 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
Getting a message on a human device seems pretty suspicious, although I suppose the trashcan could have had time to study the pad while no one was looking.


Tue May 07, 2019 2:10 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
folti wrote:
novius wrote:
Still I think a full-fledged AI would need more processing power than a mobile device which is just designed to display data and be connected to a remote server would offer.
Nothing would stop it to send only a cut down version of itself though, that can fit and run on the device at a reasonable speed.


It may not be using processors as we understand them today. For all we know it uses a quantum state to 'process' its 'routines'.

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Tue May 07, 2019 2:44 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
GeoModder wrote:
folti wrote:
novius wrote:
Still I think a full-fledged AI would need more processing power than a mobile device which is just designed to display data and be connected to a remote server would offer.
Nothing would stop it to send only a cut down version of itself though, that can fit and run on the device at a reasonable speed.


It may not be using processors as we understand them today. For all we know it uses a quantum state to 'process' its 'routines'.

That's not going to stop it from working out how human computers work, and create a very cut down version of itself. After all, per the Insider, it's very flexible on what kind of hardware it can inhabit.


Tue May 07, 2019 3:55 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
Voitan wrote:
raistlin34 wrote:
Will be one of those cryptic messages about "nothing is what it seems", "don´t trust anyone" or "your cellphone could be a Decepticon in disguise" which usually leaves the protagonist in full paranoid mode? :mrgreen:


"Dude how do I buy more gold for Bejewel Battlefield 2044?"


It could be an internal loroi message.

"At ease, soldier. Handsome lonely houseboys in your sector are looking for dutiful and efficient loroi service-members to vigorously and passionately inseminate... reply to this bulletin with your rank and servicenumber for immediate chat access to these cute and emotionally generous men."


Tue May 07, 2019 5:31 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
Spam on the battlefield?

Wouldn't be the first time for Humanity....


(Hell, in western Germany, Niederrhein region, there's even a saying that originates from unsollicited advertisements of a sexual nature near battlefields.
"Mach keine Fisimatenten!")

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Tue May 07, 2019 5:52 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
I just can't unsee in my head big gloving animated banner "Eight HOT singles warriors near YOU want to meet!". :lol:

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Tue May 07, 2019 6:21 am
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Post Re: Page 153: You've got Mail!
I don't think that would attract.
Remember, the Loroi warriors are all female, and there's a general preference for the weak males they can take care of.

Hot HOUSEMEN in your neighbourhood!
FREE registration!

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