Page 218: The Volunteer

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QuakeIV
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Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by QuakeIV »

Image

Its interesting to me that the hangar seems fairly not-crazy looking and incorporates things like fairly run of the mill girders.

It always annoyed me when basic strong geometric shapes were not used by aliens and they instead went for weird organic shapes that would be either impossible or incredibly difficult to fabricate/machine, especially for insect aliens, so this is kindof nice from my perspective.

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DCR
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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by DCR »

And there was much rejoicing. I've missed that new page smell!

In shape terms, the triangle gots it going on - three or four sided pyramids (and +1 for base) are so very very strong

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Ithekro
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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by Ithekro »

It's time for some plundering, looting, and good old fashion privateering. Got a ship to steal.

Bamax
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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by Bamax »

Well Talon looks ticked off as she seems to be glancing back at Beryl.

Not sure if she is upset with Beryl or just upset that Cloud is dead... but it would seem based off how her expression is directed it's Beryl.

Beryl could very well have suggested Cloud to die after everyone volunteered... since she is the logical choice.

Both Tempo and Fireblade would be safe as they are absolutely essential and not expendable for the mission.

No doubt there was a discussion and the majority agreed Cloud would have to go.

But maybe Talon is mad because Spiral volunteered but Beryl shot that down by suggesting the logical choice of Cloud.... if dalid is invalid anyway.

Beryl thinks low of Loroi dalid superstitio anyway... but Talon and Spiral seem to believe in it.

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SVlad
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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by SVlad »

Background on last frame seems different - like watercolour.
Outsider in Russian
Image

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Cthulhu
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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by Cthulhu »

Volunteered? Cloud was the only disposable one. The others are simply more valuable. Besides, it's war, and they are in the middle of enemy territory. There was no room nor time to question orders.

But are the life support systems really so easy to sabotage? There should be multiple redundancies, and the hardtroops won't be affected even by vacuum, anyway.

QuakeIV
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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by QuakeIV »

If they take out the life support, even if there are dudes in powered armor still wandering around then they still well and truly fucked over the ship.

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Cthulhu
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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by Cthulhu »

QuakeIV wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:08 am
If they take out the life support, even if there are dudes in powered armor still wandering around then they still well and truly fucked over the ship.
What did they take out, though?
1. Oxygen generation; it will still leave the bugs a few hours until it is depleted.
2. CO2 absorption; same as above, it's not an instant death.
3. Temperature regulation; not fast enough to freeze everyone either.
4. Venting atmosphere; This would likely trigger automatic emergency measures, sealing off parts of the ship.

The only viable strategy would be to tamper with the air's composition, for example increasing CO2 or N2 levels past a lethal threshold. However, I strongly doubt that any normal control panel would allow for such changes to be made. It's like integrating a "kill crew" button into your systems, why would anyone do it?

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projekcja
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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by projekcja »

Cthulhu wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:09 am
But are the life support systems really so easy to sabotage?
No one said it was easy.

Are you saying it has to have be easy, or a girl couldn't have done it?

j/k
Cthulhu wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:09 am
What did they take out, though?
1. Oxygen generation; it will still leave the bugs a few hours until it is depleted.
2. CO2 absorption; same as above, it's not an instant death.
3. Temperature regulation; not fast enough to freeze everyone either.
4. Venting atmosphere; This would likely trigger automatic emergency measures, sealing off parts of the ship.
I had the same thoughts more or less, and I agree that just not generating oxygen, not scrubbing CO2 and not regulating temperature would be too slow to have any noticeable immediate impact, and would only be viable in an attrition scenario.

As to venting atmosphere, there's explosive decompression you could get with just opening an airlock or blasting a wall, and there's minor leaks that can be made with tiny holes that 'slowly' sap the air in anything from minutes to hours. Automatic sealing of parts of the ship could be advantageous for attackers, as it lets you fight a smaller number of enemies at a time.

Whatever kind of sabotage you do that corrupts the air (burning toxic fumes from some ship system or weapon, diluting the air, etc) works first of all as a distraction - the Umiak have to deal with this instead of dealing with the invaders.
Cthulhu wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:09 am
The only viable strategy would be to tamper with the air's composition, for example increasing CO2 or N2 levels past a lethal threshold. However, I strongly doubt that any normal control panel would allow for such changes to be made. It's like integrating a "kill crew" button into your systems, why would anyone do it?

Hard to imagine lethal N2 levels for us humans here on earth for whom N2 is pretty much inert, but I understand the idea that toxic air conditions can be achieved.
Why would anyone allow it?
1. Pest control.
2. Unintentionally - you just have tanks of gasses used for various purposes - cooling of weapon systems, operation of the power generator etc. Open the wrong valves, make a hole in some pipe, and your crew's breathing toxic fumes.
3. Giving low level controls to engineers allows them to come up with creative solutions quickly. Umiak hate the red tape of having to request usage of some material just because if it leaked into the ship's atmosphere it would kill everyone.

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Cthulhu
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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by Cthulhu »

projekcja wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:27 pm
No one said it was easy.

Are you saying it has to have be easy, or a girl couldn't have done it?
Well, maybe it's only difficult for a pink alien man-thing, but not really a problem for a blue magical space elf babe.
projekcja wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:27 pm
I had the same thoughts more or less, and I agree that just not generating oxygen, not scrubbing CO2 and not regulating temperature would be too slow to have any noticeable immediate impact, and would only be viable in an attrition scenario.

As to venting atmosphere, there's explosive decompression you could get with just opening an airlock or blasting a wall, and there's minor leaks that can be made with tiny holes that 'slowly' sap the air in anything from minutes to hours. Automatic sealing of parts of the ship could be advantageous for attackers, as it lets you fight a smaller number of enemies at a time.

Whatever kind of sabotage you do that corrupts the air (burning toxic fumes from some ship system or weapon, diluting the air, etc) works first of all as a distraction - the Umiak have to deal with this instead of dealing with the invaders.
The problem with all of that is the inevitable alert. They really don't need to trigger a ship-wide one, or at least until the teams are in place.
projekcja wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:27 pm

Hard to imagine lethal N2 levels for us humans here on earth for whom N2 is pretty much inert, but I understand the idea that toxic air conditions can be achieved.
Why would anyone allow it?
1. Pest control.
2. Unintentionally - you just have tanks of gasses used for various purposes - cooling of weapon systems, operation of the power generator etc. Open the wrong valves, make a hole in some pipe, and your crew's breathing toxic fumes.
3. Giving low level controls to engineers allows them to come up with creative solutions quickly. Umiak hate the red tape of having to request usage of some material just because if it leaked into the ship's atmosphere it would kill everyone.
1. Pest control can be achieved with a vacuum as well. In a dry dock, when every crew member can be moved off the ship. I doubt that initiating such a scrubbing is as easy as to pull a switch somewhere.
2. Such dangerous stuff should be isolated from life support as much as possible. That's a basic measure for a ship's survivability, especially for a combat vessel.
3. A neat idea, except if your enemy are telepathic space amazons with a penchant for mindrape.

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Arioch
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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by Arioch »

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Any ship (and especially an Umiak one) will have redundant systems and compartmentalization, which is why it requires a series of coordinated failures and not just a simple blowout. Nobody said being a blue magical space elf babe was easy, but it helps when you have Tempo's particular set of skills. :D

Some of the crew won't be affected by a loss of pressure -- it's as much of a distraction as anything else -- but some will.
SpoilerShow
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boldilocks
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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by boldilocks »

"Ladies, we need a volunteer for a suici- PUT DOWN YOUR HANDS, I'm not done yet!"

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Cthulhu
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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by Cthulhu »

Arioch wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:22 pm
Any ship (and especially an Umiak one) will have redundant systems and compartmentalization, which is why it requires a series of coordinated failures and not just a simple blowout. Nobody said being a blue magical space elf babe was easy, but it helps when you have Tempo's particular set of skills. :D
A series of hull breaches? Wouldn't that be rather Fireblade's specialty? :twisted:
Arioch wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:22 pm
Some of the crew won't be affected by a loss of pressure -- it's as much of a distraction as anything else -- but some will.
I see, the hardtroopers are more or less a spacesuit already.
boldilocks wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:26 pm
"Ladies, we need a volunteer for a suici- PUT DOWN YOUR HANDS, I'm not done yet!"
More like, it's a very hazardous medical relief duty concerning an alien male with unknown phys- *THIS IS A WARSHIP, NOT A BROTHEL ON MAIA!!!*

Demetrious
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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by Demetrious »

Arioch wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:22 pm
Some of the crew won't be affected by a loss of pressure -- it's as much of a distraction as anything else -- but some will.
SpoilerShow
219ed.jpg
This is the part I think people are missing. A lack of oxygen (or methane for those alternative biologies in the crowd) is resolved very easily with an atmosphere mask, and even if there's a toxic atmosphere, a positive-pressure mask - which can be donned within seconds by trained users, as you can see from any military gas mask drill. The real problem is the lack of atmospheric pressure. That will handily kill any life-form which evolved in an atmosphere, and it requires some sort of full-body solution to deal with. Given the setting's tech level the de-facto standard is probably a mechanical pressure suit utilizing a myomer weave; by their nature these are a lot easier to don than a traditional positive atmo pressure suit, (just add helmet and life support pack) but are still restrictive enough that most personnel aren't going to be running around in them if it can be helped.

In short, depressurizing the ship isn't meant to take out any hostiles on its own, but to keep half the crew too busy scrambling for their emergency suits to do more proactive things such as grab blasters and start hunting down the badly out-numbered intruders. Fireblade is probably moving at a significant fraction of c as she strives to capitalize on every second this buys her.

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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by Voitan »

boldilocks wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:26 pm
"Ladies, we need a volunteer for a suici- PUT DOWN YOUR HANDS, I'm not done yet!"
It's been a while, and I can't recall if it's ever been addressed before, do the smurfs have a belief in the afterlife? I know they have legends, those that are oddly familiar with Earth's.

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Cthulhu
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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by Cthulhu »

Voitan wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:06 pm
It's been a while, and I can't recall if it's ever been addressed before, do the smurfs have a belief in the afterlife? I know they have legends, those that are oddly familiar with Earth's.
Not really, the legends do form some sort of ancestor veneration, but not at the level of what we know as a religion. Some subcultures might have different beliefs, and a few may even convert to the Barsam religion, though. Most won't think too much about it, however, or adopt a similar stance as Beryl here.

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orion1836
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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by orion1836 »

boldilocks wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:26 pm
"Ladies, we need a volunteer for a suici- PUT DOWN YOUR HANDS, I'm not done yet!"
The Death Korps of Krieg would be proud.

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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by avatar576 »

Cthulhu wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:18 pm
Voitan wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:06 pm
It's been a while, and I can't recall if it's ever been addressed before, do the smurfs have a belief in the afterlife? I know they have legends, those that are oddly familiar with Earth's.
Not really, the legends do form some sort of ancestor veneration, but not at the level of what we know as a religion. Some subcultures might have different beliefs, and a few may even convert to the Barsam religion, though. Most won't think too much about it, however, or adopt a similar stance as Beryl here.
"Immortality" for a Loroi generally means performing feats of heroism and valor worthy of remembrance via telepathic stories, which then become immortalized in legends. I wouldn't be surprised if everyone volunteered for the job that fell to Cloud after some "persuasion" from Tempo illustrating just how very important the mission is and the profound and momentous impacts their success will have on the course of the war.
Somehow, I have a difficult time imagining Fireblade -- the Red-Haired Iceberg -- saying, <<Pick me! Pick me!>>

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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by Snoofman »

avatar576 wrote:
Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:58 am
Cthulhu wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:18 pm
Voitan wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:06 pm
It's been a while, and I can't recall if it's ever been addressed before, do the smurfs have a belief in the afterlife? I know they have legends, those that are oddly familiar with Earth's.
Not really, the legends do form some sort of ancestor veneration, but not at the level of what we know as a religion. Some subcultures might have different beliefs, and a few may even convert to the Barsam religion, though. Most won't think too much about it, however, or adopt a similar stance as Beryl here.
"Immortality" for a Loroi generally means performing feats of heroism and valor worthy of remembrance via telepathic stories, which then become immortalized in legends. I wouldn't be surprised if everyone volunteered for the job that fell to Cloud after some "persuasion" from Tempo illustrating just how very important the mission is and the profound and momentous impacts their success will have on the course of the war.
Somehow, I have a difficult time imagining Fireblade -- the Red-Haired Iceberg -- saying, <<Pick me! Pick me!>>
I think it is quite possible that Fireblade volunteered like the others, as Beryl claims. But she was tactically and combatively more valuable. Wouldn’t surprise me if Tempo persuaded Cloud to be the final choice. She is a Mizol after all.

There is also the possibility that Beryl stretched the truth so as not to frighten Alex or shatter his faith in the loroi. After all, not all aliens can appreciate warrior honor!

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Re: Page 218: The Volunteer

Post by avatar576 »

Snoofman wrote:
Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:45 am
avatar576 wrote:
Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:58 am
Cthulhu wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:18 pm

Not really, the legends do form some sort of ancestor veneration, but not at the level of what we know as a religion. Some subcultures might have different beliefs, and a few may even convert to the Barsam religion, though. Most won't think too much about it, however, or adopt a similar stance as Beryl here.
"Immortality" for a Loroi generally means performing feats of heroism and valor worthy of remembrance via telepathic stories, which then become immortalized in legends. I wouldn't be surprised if everyone volunteered for the job that fell to Cloud after some "persuasion" from Tempo illustrating just how very important the mission is and the profound and momentous impacts their success will have on the course of the war.
Somehow, I have a difficult time imagining Fireblade -- the Red-Haired Iceberg -- saying, <<Pick me! Pick me!>>
I think it is quite possible that Fireblade volunteered like the others, as Beryl claims. But she was tactically and combatively more valuable. Wouldn’t surprise me if Tempo persuaded Cloud to be the final choice. She is a Mizol after all.

There is also the possibility that Beryl stretched the truth so as not to frighten Alex or shatter his faith in the loroi. After all, not all aliens can appreciate warrior honor!
Cloud was the obvious choice all along, so I guess it would make sense that Fireblade might "volunteer," knowing 1.) that Tempo would never choose her because of her value, and 2.) that to not volunteer while everyone else did might signal that she puts her own interests above those of the rest of the team. The latter I can see being a major faux pas in Loroi warrior society. So it's possible, and maybe even probable that Fireblade et al. "volunteered" because it was culturally obligatory, not much more than ceremonial in this situation, but reaffirming of their allegiance to one another.
In short, "I will do it...should it come to that."

But the fact that all of them volunteered in a situation where most humans would, at best, be exceedingly reluctant to do so illustrates a difference between Human and Loroi culture.

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