Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

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man_of_foul_tofu
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by man_of_foul_tofu »

@Luge - I understand, but not every page can be as good as the last, or as good as the next. I am content. Another page - sigh - this month is a good month already.

@Zarya - I think Arioch has been very clear that there will be no saucy activity of any kind. However, there is this which is entirely non-cannon.

I had the speculation that we have telepathy and telekenisis, and perhaps Alex (being human) would act as an amplifier or a unique alteration being able to be made to that person's mental faculties - but having read this (http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/forum_telepathy.html) I dont think my hypothothis fits with the plot as it exists, and the information provided.

So, it's confusing. Below is a nice bit of exposition from the above page ...
Loroi vs. Aliens
The Loroi are, as far as they are aware, the only telepathic species since the fall of the Soia (who had psionic devices and so were presumably also telepathic). In addition to being seen as proof of Loroi descent from the Soia, many Loroi consider their telepathic nature as being a higher and superior form of life as compared with other alien species, collectively referred to as binzer ("mutes"). The subconscious Loroi association between the spoken word and hostility also increases the perception of other races that the Loroi are arrogant and belligerent (and is why the Loroi have developed a dedicated diplomatic caste for dealing verbally with outsiders).

Loroi telepathy has varying effects in regard to non-Loroi alien subjects. No known alien is truly telepathic, and so aliens may not transmit telepathic messages or experience the true depth of the Loroi skin-to-skin telepathic link. However, most intelligent alien species do generate a mental signature that can be detected by Loroi telepaths, and it is possible for Loroi to send a telepathic message to or use other telepathic abilities on an alien subject, though this often requires actual physical contact.

Alien brain structure and thought patterns vary widely, and so alien susceptibility to Loroi telepathic techniques also varies greatly from species to species. Loroi can read some species very easily, and others hardly at all. On the extreme side, one race (the Golim) is so susceptible to Loroi telepathy that any individual within a certain range of a Loroi is essentially mesmerized and completely open to the will of the Loroi (even if the Loroi isn’t consciously attempting to influence the Golim). At the other extreme, Humanity appears to be highly resistant to all Loroi telepathic abilities, including signature detection.

In general, aliens cannot receive Loroi remote telepathic transmissions unless they are “shouted” at (Golim being the notable exception). With only a few exceptions, Loroi can detect the signatures of all alien minds. Loroi can establish direct physical link with an alien subject via touch; even resistant aliens will notice the telepathic contact. However, while the contact will enhance whatever abilities the Loroi might attempt to use on the subject, the Loroi and the alien subject will not experience the intimate two-way contact that a Link between two Loroi produces, because the alien is not itself a telepath. The effectiveness of various other Loroi telepathic abilities on aliens varies from species to species.

All aliens are uniformly susceptible to Loroi psychokinesis, regardless of their relative resistance or susceptibility to Loroi telepathy. Psychokinesis produces real forces that interact with matter in ways consistent with physical law; telepathy does not. One cannot be “resistant” to psychokinetic effects unless one is also psychokinetic, and is using one’s own abilities to counteract another source of PK.

Krulle
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by Krulle »

Diodri wrote:Not sure how fast Loroi hearts beat, but if it is 60 bpm they have almost an hour. If it's 120 bmp they have about 26 minutes. i can't imagine it's much faster than that, but even 240 bmp would give 13 minutes, so they have a little while to chat.
Diodri - your listing of hearbeat rates (especially their order) made me think of something - maybe Beryl and Alex will find a way to increase their respective heartbeats (temporarily), and its possible influence on the telepathic non-existance of Alexander to Beryl?
For science!


Of course this will not be depicted (no fanservice).
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

novius
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by novius »

Now there is another thought: What if Alex does pick up an image from her mind?

That would definitely open up another can of worms.

Nah. Not happening. Surely not. Right. Right? :D

GhostlyYorick
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by GhostlyYorick »

Touch-a touch-a touch-a touch me
I wanna be dirty
Thrill me, chill me, fulfill me
Creature of the Empty Quarter!

:mrgreen:

fredgiblet
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by fredgiblet »

Page 133: Prelude to handholding

Krulle
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by Krulle »

page 133: the most "fanservice" discussion since a long while.
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

raistlin34
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by raistlin34 »

Krulle wrote:page 133: the most "fanservice" discussion since a long while.
I think Arioch is trolling the lot of us.

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icekatze
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by icekatze »

hi hi
Diodri wrote:Not sure how fast Loroi hearts beat...
1 solon = 1.092 seconds.

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Diodri
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by Diodri »

I wonder if all Loroi have identical heartbeat speeds? It seems to be consistent enough to be used as a standard measurement of time.

folti
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by folti »

Diodri wrote:I wonder if all Loroi have identical heartbeat speeds? It seems to be consistent enough to be used as a standard measurement of time.
Probably they followed the same route as human measuring units like foot, inch and co. Every city state/valley/tribe had their own standard, until later some empire or other higher power standardized it's value at some semi-arbitrary value. Inch for example referred to a a wide range of units in different measuring systems, ranging from ~21mm up to 30mm, until the current standard of 25.4mm have been adopted in the 1930s, first by the UK, then the US followed by other imperial users.

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orion1836
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by orion1836 »

Diodri wrote:I wonder if all Loroi have identical heartbeat speeds? It seems to be consistent enough to be used as a standard measurement of time.
I think Beryl just used that description as a quick way of explaining it to Alex in Chapter 1.

My two cents... ever since reading the Insider, I've adopted the head-canon that humans are the template race for the Loroi, as the Nibiren seem to be for the Barsam. Even if sanzai is 100% a Soia addition, it stands to reason that our hardware should at least be able to detect something even if it can't 'translate' it. For example, astronauts have reported 'seeing' radiation as flashes of light, even when their eyes are closed.

I think the feeling of an electrostatic spark and 'seeing' Fireblade's outline during the interrogation was simply his brain's way of interpreting what it did not have the capability to interpret. I don't think he'll be able to communicate with Beryl, but he'll definitely feel something.

boldilocks
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by boldilocks »

I imagine one of these will be coming up next:
Image

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CrimsonFALKE
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by CrimsonFALKE »

She seems a bit thrilled is the fact she can touch him with his permission mean something to her, since they are in such danger?

folti
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by folti »

CrimsonFALKE wrote:She seems a bit thrilled is the fact she can touch him with his permission mean something to her, since they are in such danger?
Touch allows a quite deep and intimate sanzai between Loroi from which very few thoughts remain hidden, so it's only reserved to very close friends.

Or forced interrogation as Alex learned the hard way with Fireblade and co the first time he met with them.

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SVlad
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Re: Talon

Post by SVlad »

I've failed to understand what exactly Alex trying to say to Talon:
Don't feel like you have to impress me, Talon!
He don't think Talon must impress him by something in the future? Or Talon didn't impressed him by previous phrase?
Outsider in Russian
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cacambo43
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Re: Talon

Post by cacambo43 »

SVlad wrote:I've failed to understand what exactly Alex trying to say to Talon:
Don't feel like you have to impress me, Talon!
He don't think Talon must impress him by something in the future? Or Talon didn't impressed him by previous phrase?
Some sort of fancy flying skills that involves Gora Station and Highland-7, probably under "less than compatible" trajectories and velocities, by the sounds of it.

CJSF

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icekatze
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by icekatze »

hi hi
SVlad wrote:I've failed to understand what exactly Alex trying to say to Talon
My interpretation is this: on the previous page (132), Talon says that Alex wanted to see something interesting and that now he'll probably see it.

I feel like Alex's response says a lot of things. First of all, I think he's saying in a roundabout way that he already appreciates what Talon has done, and is doing for him; she doesn't need to take extra steps to impress him. Also, I think he's sort of telling her to keep her cool, to focus on surviving rather than getting distracted by anything else.

But that is just my interpretation.

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Arioch
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by Arioch »

Alex: "And if you can get safely aboard, what then?"
Talon: "You wished to see something interesting, Enzin. I think maybe now you will see it!"
Alex: "Don't feel like you have to impress me!"

I don't get what is confusing people about this interchange.

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Diodri
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by Diodri »

I understood this just fine. I think in the space between updates people forgot exactly what Talon said on the previous page and didn't take the time to re-read it.

I think the entire relay station is going to jump, or transform, or something.

Nemo
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Re: Page 133: "Will you permit it?"

Post by Nemo »

Diodri wrote:I understood this just fine. I think in the space between updates people forgot exactly what Talon said on the previous page and didn't take the time to re-read it.

This. Coupled with the direction Alex's head is turned made me think, at first, that the speaker was obscured while Alex was listening to Beryl. Thought it was background dialog at first pass.

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