Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
130: deep jumps vs. white dwarves 
Author Message

Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:15 am
Posts: 3
Post Re: 130: deep jumps vs. white dwarves
I wrote a whole nice thing about the misconceptions and confusion in this thread, but it was eaten by the auto log-off.
So I'm going to do this again a whole lot less fancy and talky-like because my brain hurts now.

Image
See the above picture? Same mass, different radius. We don't care what goes on 'inside' the radius because if you're there you are dead - inside a star, or inside a black hole, or inside a rock. Or about to be.
Note that both possess different gravitational values at their 'surfaces' (r=1's surface was cut off when i made the image - but it's down there) - like how white dwarves have greater surface gravity than equivalent red dwarves, and differently sized black holes have different tidal forces at the event horizon.
Now note that both possess the same curve, except where the radius intersects the gravitational curve. From this we can deduce that it is mass, not size, that will be the largest determinate of how an object defines the jump-routes leading to it. And the only determinate of the precise shape of the gravity well in places outside the radius.
Except size does matter - sufficiently large objects have less 'room' for travelers to land when they jump, compared to smaller objects of the same mass. Deep jumps may or may not be easier - but there is less room for defenders to be uncertain about.
Caveat for my model and math: I looked at the masses as point masses - looking at them as proper 3d masses may result in changes for especially large AND heavy objects.
Finally: For gravity wells which are small and heavy to not follow this, generally, the gravitational constant must change as a function of something.
While the system's white dwarf may appear to have a 'narrow but deep' gravity well, it is actually just a regular gravity well for its mass, but with lots and lots of 'free space' to 'land' in. As an aside - I'm surprised we don't see any Umiak vessels in the space between the deep jump and regular jump groups - some ships coming up short wouldn't have been a surprise.

My math, done on Desmos:
Image
I apologize for the use of constants like that. The gravitational constant was omitted/rolled into m2 for ease on my eyes.


Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:47 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:09 pm
Posts: 19
Post Re: 130: deep jumps vs. white dwarves
Regarding the jump diagram posted previously, specifically with the depiction of a gas giant interfering with what I suppose you could call “optimal glidepath” for a hyperspace transient craft’s reentry vector, does this mean that star systems where gas giants exist create a sort of natural defensive topography that makes inbound jumps all the more dangerous? I’m thinking along the lines of how terrain can create challenges for an attacker, in that a defilade might force one to commit his strength along a known path in mountainous terrain.

I realize also that when you account for orbital rotation, a planet does not affect a given jump vector all the time, but if you take Sol for example, with two gas giants (I am assuming Neptune and Uranus are not large enough to be considered true gas giants, but Arioch, please correct me if I am wrong) rotating at different distances and speeds, it seems that it would put attcking forces at a severe disadvantage in anticipating precisely when a planet is going to have an impact (how close to the inbound vector are each if the planets, are they at apogee, etc), and that unless the inbound vessel or fleet was willing to risk an incredibly dangerous jump, that the navigator would have to plot a shallow, distant jump in-system.

Furthermore, with such advantages and knowledge of in-system jump viable zones, a defender would seem to have a very straightforward “shooting fish in a barrel” task of pointing all their guns at the one or two spots an attacker could reasonably be expected to jump.


Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:05 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:10 am
Posts: 347
Post Re: 130: deep jumps vs. white dwarves
Quote:
Finally: For gravity wells which are small and heavy to not follow this, generally, the gravitational constant must change as a function of something.
While the system's white dwarf may appear to have a 'narrow but deep' gravity well, it is actually just a regular gravity well for its mass, but with lots and lots of 'free space' to 'land' in.

I agree with all of this if we assume that the jump-governing shape of hyperspace is entirely the same as the real curvatures of gravity. If Arioch wants superdense objects to behave differently I have no problem assuming that there's related but different math in play, perhaps math that for some reason does care about what's going inside that radius circle somehow, though I can't produce the math myself.

_________________
Atomic Space Race, a hard sci-fi orbital mechanics puzzle game.
Homeworld Fulcrum, a Homeworld Remastered Mod


Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:26 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Warringrose and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.