Well of Souls Forums

Cthulhu wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:14 am

asaenvolk wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:41 am

I know that you weren't likely to go down the rout of the Umiak using humans to hide there ships somehow, but still I dreaded the posibility, but than you for confirming it can't be that case.

He is merely confirming that the Humans, if there are any, cannot be the ones from the Scout Mission. However, this does not exclude Humans completely, you know?
There are always other possibilities, a lost colony, established by the Soia and discovered by the Umiak, for example.

Please no!
I hate that HALO route!
Conspiracy theory tier.

Dan Wyatt wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:49 am

Conspiracy theory tier.

That's cute. I mean, how could hydrogen tanks detonate in a vacuum? Or how could that other ship know where the Bellarmine was and sneak up on it? Why did they not use an antimatter charge to obliterate the wreck? Besides, the reloading time of that cannon was surprisingly slow, do they really have just a single one on a 300 m long ship? Ahem, jokes (or not?) aside, I think that the Umiak have either found or were given some psi-jamming Soia device. Unfortunately, it only jams the "optimized and streamlined" telepathy of the Loroi, not the Human original. This will enable our protagonist to play an important role.

Cthulhu wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:10 pm

[...] I think that the Umiak have either found or were given some psi-jamming Soia device. Unfortunately, it only jams the "optimized and streamlined" telepathy of the Loroi, not the Human original. This will enable our protagonist to play an important role.

Just a wild-eyed guess, but maybe those "psi-jamming Soia devices" are other survivors from the Bellarmine, and Alex is just the stronger psi-block in the bunch.

Keklas Rekobah wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:52 pm

Just a wild-eyed guess, but maybe those "psi-jamming Soia devices" are other survivors from the Bellarmine, and Alex is just the stronger psi-block in the bunch.

1. There's absolutely no info (at least yet) that humans may shield others. Only the humans themselves are psi-immune.
2. If we assume that the Shell ships are crewed by Humans, there are not enough people for the Hierarchy fleets, even if the 3 other scouts were to be captured intact. Also, why would the Shells entrust their ships to something they picked up on the "roadside"?

Keklas Rekobah wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:52 pm

Cthulhu wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:10 pm

[...] I think that the Umiak have either found or were given some psi-jamming Soia device. Unfortunately, it only jams the "optimized and streamlined" telepathy of the Loroi, not the Human original. This will enable our protagonist to play an important role.

Just a wild-eyed guess, but maybe those "psi-jamming Soia devices" are other survivors from the Bellarmine, and Alex is just the stronger psi-block in the bunch.

Not possible, in that timeframe.
Might be another kind of psychic blockers.

Can't have human based Farseeer blocking tech before humans arrive in the region. And the Loroi have been experiencing some issues recently with the Umiak being able to ambush their strike groups in this area. While there is a slim chance that the Umiak encountered one of the other scout ships in another sector sooner than the Bellarmine's arrival, why would they have discovered a way to block all presence of Umiak forces in the area from Loroi senses? Humans seem to only mask their own presence, not block contact with others around them. There wouldn't be enough humans on any scout ships to run multiple fleets of ship, nor would they be willing to do so in less than two months (it was roughly that since the five scout ships parted ways from their tanker).

Does anyone else think the CH3 cover should be Hardtroops

I would find it amusing if the Historians gave the Umaik the tech, and they are playing the two off one another, and it was a Historian ship that destroyed the Bellarmine to protect their plans (or stop humans from getting involved at that time.

Arioch wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:46 pm

I think he meant that Umiak ships don't keep Loroi prisoners on hand. Interstellar travel in Outsider is rather slow; it would take weeks or months to even get humans captured from the scout missions to places where Loroi prisoners are, if they still have some, and then weeks or months to get get whatever tech they discovered back to the front line. And even if they knew what they were looking for (and they don't), they'd have to somehow get the captive Loroi to cooperate, and then somehow find out why humans are resistant. There simply hasn't been enough time for that to be the explanation for what's happening in this Umiak offensive.

Exactly - keeping any Loroi prisoners of a caste with combat strength psi on a combat vessel in any sort of conscious state is just asking for all sorts of trouble, far beyond hair trigger occupation of a world with far weaker civilians. And that's before figuring out how to make them actually cooperate in examining a prisoner of another species entirely.

Psi abilities mean that Loroi are living weapons - and you don't let prisoners keep weapons as a general rule unless you like uprisings. I'd also be skeptical of the Umiak bothering to keep combat psi-capable prisoners on hand and in a functional state even in a planetary based facility. If they were sensible one of their first acts upon successful occupation would be to immediately cull or incapacitate any captured Loroi capable of resistance and the barcoded ones are what was left after that.

But even aside from how dangerous Loroi prisoners are... why would the Umiak keep prisoners on warships? On the off chance that they might meet a new species and need to test the Loroi reaction to it? That doesn't seem logical unless the Umiak have read the script.

Yeah they'd be collectively meta-gaming like crazy to do something like that. Barring some in-story context that has not yet been revealed.

Cthulhu wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:10 pm

Ahem, jokes (or not?) aside, I think that the Umiak have either found or were given some psi-jamming Soia device. Unfortunately, it only jams the "optimized and streamlined" telepathy of the Loroi, not the Human original. This will enable our protagonist to play an important role.

I'm not sure I'd like such a twist. It'd kinda feel like "humans had to come to show alien witches how to do alien witchery right".

asaenvolk wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:50 am

I would find it amusing if the Historians gave the Umaik the tech, and they are playing the two off one another, and it was a Historian ship that destroyed the Bellarmine to protect their plans (or stop humans from getting involved at that time.

I think everyone in the audience is so distrustful of these people that it'd probably be a bigger twist if they weren't doing that.

gaerzi wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:48 am

I'm not sure I'd like such a twist. It'd kinda feel like "humans had to come to show alien witches how to do alien witchery right".

Well, I'm just speculating to pass the time until the next page. Since Humans are the template species, the witchery is actually "ours" in a sense. Also, it's about time that Alex is upgraded from narrator to a protagonist. Otherwise, he'll be a bystander, or just luggage.
I'm merely guessing what he could contribute to the war effort without turning it into a "Humanity, hell yeah!" kind of story. A "helping hand" sort of development should be enough, not something overpowered like being able to crush a Shell ship with super-TK. His vision even kind of hints at some sensory ability.

I still like the Umiak on ice theory. Simply have an autopilot, freeze down the Umiak & wake them shortly before the last jump.

Arent wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:30 am

I still like the Umiak on ice theory. Simply have an autopilot, freeze down the Umiak & wake them shortly before the last jump.

Deicing will take time, they perhaps keep themselves in medbay or under drugs. When the warp sickness wears off, they go into action.
I think Arioch stated this.

Dan Wyatt wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:09 pm

Arent wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:30 am

I still like the Umiak on ice theory. Simply have an autopilot, freeze down the Umiak & wake them shortly before the last jump.

Deicing will take time, they perhaps keep themselves in medbay or under drugs. When the warp sickness wears off, they go into action.
I think Arioch stated this.

I dimly remember something like this. But even if deicing/withdrawing drugs/whatever takes an entire day it would still be a great advantage since moving fleets to meet that undetected force would take quite a while.

Arent wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:51 pm

I dimly remember something like this. But even if deicing/withdrawing drugs/whatever takes an entire day it would still be a great advantage since moving fleets to meet that undetected force would take quite a while.

The Umiak indeed take drugs to overcome their severe jump sickness and are prone because of that for some time. But it does not impede farseer detection. Cryogenic stasis might enable them to circumvent this on a strategical scale, like for fleet movements, but it wouldn't work on a tactical scale for those ambushes, for example.

So how long until we see Jardin finally "hearing" sanzai? I always wanted to see their unspoken dialogue.

Voitan wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:04 pm

So how long until we see Jardin finally "hearing" sanzai? I always wanted to see their unspoken dialogue.

He already heard it in FireBlade's dreams, it'll be better for him to keep quiet about this, and eavesdrop on the Loroi.

Dan Wyatt wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:37 am

Voitan wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:04 pm

So how long until we see Jardin finally "hearing" sanzai? I always wanted to see their unspoken dialogue.

He already heard it in FireBlade's dreams, it'll be better for him to keep quiet about this, and eavesdrop on the Loroi.

If I may beg to differ, in that dream sequence, he is not directly "hearing" telepathy. He's having a dream, and even if we accept that this dream is not imagined and represents someone's experienced reality, Alex is still not "hearing" direct telepathy; at best, he's remembering some other telepath's perception of telepathy.