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The problem with ascribing motives to Fireblade re: Jardin is that we the readers are not privy to sanzai, and Fireblade doesn't speak. We, as well as he, could be badly misinterpreting her actions and reactions toward him. We don't know because, again, she doesn't speak. Loroi seem like us, but they are not like us. Arioch knows what's going on in Fireblade's mind, because we don't. Did her "Eye Am Watching You" hand sign mean "I don't trust you," or did it mean "I will keep alert for you?" He's a male. Regardless of the fact he's a xeno to them, he's still a very Loroi like male. Beryl is certainly protective, and Talon may fantasize about an encounter. To Fireblade, whose job is to keep him alive, he's probably triggering "weak male, must protect" instincts. Jardin is constantly irritating her and making her job harder, which is bad show on his part. Maybe now he'll realize how stupid that is.

Dromond wrote: ↑

Tue May 30, 2023 4:35 am

The problem with ascribing motives to Fireblade re: Jardin is that we the readers are not privy to sanzai, and Fireblade doesn't speak. We, as well as he, could be badly misinterpreting her actions and reactions toward him. We don't know because, again, she doesn't speak. Loroi seem like us, but they are not like us. Arioch knows what's going on in Fireblade's mind, because we don't. Did her "Eye Am Watching You" hand sign mean "I don't trust you," or did it mean "I will keep alert for you?" He's a male. Regardless of the fact he's a xeno to them, he's still a very Loroi like male. Beryl is certainly protective, and Talon may fantasize about an encounter. To Fireblade, whose job is to keep him alive, he's probably triggering "weak male, must protect" instincts. Jardin is constantly irritating her and making her job harder, which is bad show on his part. Maybe now he'll realize how stupid that is.

Fireblade is the Loroi who tried forcibly to penetrate Alex's lotai. Sure, she was under orders from Stillstorm, but he perceived the attempt as a painful mindrape. Is any wonder that Jardin remains wary and verbally hostile to her?

raistlin34 wrote: ↑

Tue May 30, 2023 6:35 am

Fireblade is the Loroi who tried forcibly to penetrate Alex's lotai. Sure, she was under orders from Stillstorm, but he perceived the attempt as a painful mindrape. Is any wonder that Jardin remains wary and verbally hostile to her?

That's true, and the "Nuremberg defense" doesn't fly for humans generally. But again, for Loroi it might be different.

And the interesting thing is that he seems to be gaining access to what must be formative and painful memories for her. Is she sharing these on purpose? Is the mental intrusion going both ways? Is Alex's mind more in control of this process than he is aware? Is Fireblade consciously aware of what's happening between them?

Demarquis wrote: ↑

Tue May 30, 2023 4:33 pm

Is Fireblade consciously aware of what's happening between them?

I don't know about Fireblade, but after page 182, I think Tempo may be aware that something is leaking. I'd guess that Tempo probably has almost as much background information about Fireblade as she does about Stillstorm (aside from there being 100 years less of it).

wolf329 wrote: ↑

Mon May 22, 2023 1:26 am

It also can't be understated how useful Earth could be as a staging area. The potential resources in the asteroid belt alone make it valuable from an industrial standpoint.

As someone who spent time and thought-effort on coming up with ways humanity could be helpful after first reading Outsider, I'll tell you to stop bothering.

While there are stories about primitive humans showing up with ideas no one else has, this isn't one of them. Anything we have, the Loroi and Umiak have better. Neither side needs us, and the investment required to uptech our forces to the point they'd be helpful would be a distraction the Loroi cannot afford. Same with providing a staging area. At best we could provide a warehouse for fuel and provisions brought in by alien freighters, to be used by alien warships.

No matter how resource rich our asteroid belt is, it's too far from Loroi and Umiak industrial hubs to be used. Any freighters sent to retrieve it could have made multiple runs carrying much closer materials. Maybe we could send our own convoys, but good luck defending them from raiders. And good luck convincing anyone at home that sending our wealth off into deep space so some aliens we barely know can fight a war is a good thing.

No, this story is probably about exploring what the hell the Soia were doing when they cloned a bunch of primitives and made them blue. A historian construct taking interest in Alex is leading in that direction.

RedDwarfIV wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 12:45 pm

wolf329 wrote: ↑

Mon May 22, 2023 1:26 am

It also can't be understated how useful Earth could be as a staging area. The potential resources in the asteroid belt alone make it valuable from an industrial standpoint.

As someone who spent time and thought-effort on coming up with ways humanity could be helpful after first reading Outsider, I'll tell you to stop bothering.

While there are stories about primitive humans showing up with ideas no one else has, this isn't one of them. Anything we have, the Loroi and Umiak have better. Neither side needs us, and the investment required to uptech our forces to the point they'd be helpful would be a distraction the Loroi cannot afford. Same with providing a staging area. At best we could provide a warehouse for fuel and provisions brought in by alien freighters, to be used by alien warships.

No matter how resource rich our asteroid belt is, it's too far from Loroi and Umiak industrial hubs to be used. Any freighters sent to retrieve it could have made multiple runs carrying much closer materials. Maybe we could send our own convoys, but good luck defending them from raiders. And good luck convincing anyone at home that sending our wealth off into deep space so some aliens we barely know can fight a war is a good thing.

No, this story is probably about exploring what the hell the Soia were doing when they cloned a bunch of primitives and made them blue. A historian construct taking interest in Alex is leading in that direction.

I think the side story hinted is where we will find out the Lori have been taking some sort of Higher class role among the "blues"? Why? because there original nonblue race they were cloned from. It hadnt been found yet. They prob claimed that they were clones of the Sora themselves and therefor had more "rights" than others or something. Purely speculation tho. I make this guess because the Basam guy early on wanted Alex so bad. "Falsehoods Lori have been breathing for centuries" i think he said.

I personally would find it interesting to see the precursor race as the Jocky's/Engineers from Aliens. Human but so much more, spreading and upgrading life as they go. Maybe with a AI guardian to keep watch over them. A Historian.

Tbh I think the Historian's are the true enemy. They are hardly helping the Lori and seem to know far more than anyone else. It's almost like they are the AI the Sora had and they rebelled after they were gone or something. It's like they know the whole chess board but just enjoy watching the toy's of there creators move around and kill each other. Some sort of sadistic revenge for them or designed strife to create growth programed into the Ai to help guide and grow the created... idk.

I have no doubt that they hacked the Bell and were the ones who shot it. Prob to keep the Humans out of the knowledge of the others, for what reason idk yet. The mini-Construct told Alex he had learned our ways from the systems on his ship, but no historian ship will admit to ever seeing it before and unless that tincan hacked it while alex was on the bridge or just before...from that "limited" trashcan unit. Than we can only assume it was there longer than we suspect. A Malware Ai on our servers if you will. One, the crew either didn't detect or did and ignored because was a non-threat at the time.

Would be interesting to figure out humans lotai was tied to brain structure changes. IE. Lori traded small amount of brain mass for this to make the sanza portion of the brain. So our lotai could be tied to our strong visualsation metal capacity. IE the reason why he see's fireblade as a roaring sun is because her brain lacks the total cpu power to fully render her out with red hair in real time. she can pull color memories and such but 3d editing or designing is hard for them, while for human. We all can visualize objects in our mind and put unique spins on them, changing colors. etc.
This is by no way saying they are dumber. no no no. just saying there minds are not built the same as ours. like x86 cpu vs arm chips. Arm may have built in bluetooth and wifi but lacks raw output io when compared to a x86 xeon. so to say. I have been wrong and off base alot tho. just food for thoughts (also i know the higher end arm chips are taking over server space and are getting larger amount of i/o. just talking standard everyday use chips here)

QuakeIV wrote: ↑

Mon May 29, 2023 4:12 pm

Regarding 'gamification', although the alloying point is obviously true, stugs actually pretty directly traded off against tigers in terms of competing for resources.

Do you mean it was equivalent to a Tiger in its quantity and type of resource requirement? I'll need some sauce on that before I bite. StugIII was cheaper than Panzer 3, much less Panzer 4 or Tiger 1. It was the most produced German armor unit, over 10,000 built, because it took so few resources. It was also considered artillery and not tank branch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlkaxAKRuI4

No I mean if you forego a tiger you could build multiple Stugs. The point that special materials are required for alloys is true, but tigers afaik actually leaned more heavily on that than Stug did, so if anything Stug is superior in a lesser requirement for special materials anyhow.

A tank being over-engineered costs you more in labor to build and maintain (and maybe in some extra components), but not so much in raw materials cost. A Tiger I cost twice as much to build as a Panther, but it was only about 20% heavier... you couldn't make two Panthers with the steel required for one Tiger.

raistlin34 wrote: ↑

Mon May 29, 2023 2:29 pm

Problem is, the one Loroi whom Alex seems to have some resonance with is... Fireblade.

We don't learn about Alex's troubling history and weakness for red heads until much later in the story.

Should I have spoilered that?

Moon Moth wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 4:39 am

I think Tempo may be aware that something is leaking.

Agreed. She never forgets. So she I would be surprised if she has not picked up on the hints Alex accidentally dropped.

Well, if Fireblade does not understand what is going on, in spite of the fact that she was apparently ordered to connect to him, then Alex may be more powerful than she is mentally, and could even be in control of the process, even though he isn't consciously aware of it.

It would be amusing if Humans turned out to be the precursor species.

Demarquis wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:54 am

It would be amusing if Humans turned out to be the precursor species.

That’s kind of the premise of the humans of the Halo universe.

Snoofman wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:31 pm

Demarquis wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:54 am

It would be amusing if Humans turned out to be the precursor species.

That’s kind of the premise of the humans of the Halo universe.

My memories of the game serie are a bit fuzzy, but humans were more or less the chosen race to succeed the actual Precursors, and the Forerunners didn't like that. Things went downhill from there...like A LOT.

Demarquis wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:54 am

Well, if Fireblade does not understand what is going on, in spite of the fact that she was apparently ordered to connect to him, then Alex may be more powerful than she is mentally, and could even be in control of the process, even though he isn't consciously aware of it.

I don't think that's true. If it were true, Fireblade would get quite violent, with unfortunate consequences for Alex.

Demarquis wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:54 am

It would be amusing if Humans turned out to be the precursor species.

Pretty sucky precursors, if so.

Demarquis wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:54 am

Well, if Fireblade does not understand what is going on, in spite of the fact that she was apparently ordered to connect to him, then Alex may be more powerful than she is mentally, and could even be in control of the process, even though he isn't consciously aware of it.

It would be amusing if Humans turned out to be the precursor species.

Other have speculated Alex is acting merely as as "receptor" of Fireblade's signal. Still something Umiaks would LOVE to get their pincers at.

Except that I'm not convinced that *Fireblade* is aware of what's going on. We don't know what this looks like from her point of view, or if she even knows that Alex is receiving anything. It looks to me like she is either doing it on purpose and is therefore succeeding in what she set out to do, or she isn't and therefore doesn't know anything.

Still, I'm waiting for the moment Beryl (who is the one who does not forget - eidetic memory) ask Alex when he learned about Fireblade's scar (vs her looks now), i.e. when Beryl follows up on Page 182.

I'm just waiting to see a setting where the Loroi think it is safe to ask such a question.

Arioch wrote: ↑

Wed May 24, 2023 3:13 pm

Umiak are not very similar to Earth insects, but it's probably true of almost any species that you could find some chemical or drug that will incapacitate or kill them but not you.

Reminded me "ancient" scifi book of humans entering another moon/planet covered by ice/water. One of the scientist was attacked and being eated by alien shark. To surprise for most, especially to the sharklien, our biochemistry was so alien, that humans were actually poisonous to them and it died hours later for stomach ache, well, it did died and rise belly up.