Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:36 pm
From her expression I am betting on flustered and rushed at the same time. She was caught off guard.
A.
Page 3 of 4
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:26 pm
It's not uncommon for professionals working in an environment where there's a lot of deaths (soldiers, doctors, nurses) for people to become somewhat jaded to the concept. As a sort of defence mechanism, they develop a rather morbidly casual approach to the subject that outsiders don't easily appreciate and can often find offensive. Any Alex is the ultimate outsider right now
A.
A.
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:05 pm
This. No offense, but I think you guys going too deep in interpretation of this scene.Luge wrote:It's not uncommon for professionals working in an environment where there's a lot of deaths (soldiers, doctors, nurses) for people to become somewhat jaded to the concept. As a sort of defence mechanism, they develop a rather morbidly casual approach to the subject that outsiders don't easily appreciate and can often find offensive. Any Alex is the ultimate outsider right now
A.
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 11:58 pm
Considering Alex's use of dark humor concerning his own imminent death when he was singing Major Tom in the Trade Language, I can't imagine him feeling too offended over the bet.
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 12:41 am
hi hi
Us, analyzing things too deeply? There's no such thing.
Honestly though, this is the second time we've seen Loroi peers placing bets on something, the wager between Moonglow and Ashrain being the other notable example. Given the way the Loroi view luck as a zero sum game, I wouldn't be surprised if betting on things is commonplace among the warrior caste. If you bet a lot, your luck ought to regress toward the mean, and that might be a comforting thing for someone who doesn't want to be cursed with luck that is too good or too bad.
Us, analyzing things too deeply? There's no such thing.
Honestly though, this is the second time we've seen Loroi peers placing bets on something, the wager between Moonglow and Ashrain being the other notable example. Given the way the Loroi view luck as a zero sum game, I wouldn't be surprised if betting on things is commonplace among the warrior caste. If you bet a lot, your luck ought to regress toward the mean, and that might be a comforting thing for someone who doesn't want to be cursed with luck that is too good or too bad.
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 1:36 am
They are speaking literally.SVlad wrote:I'm not quite sure do Loroi literally bet on alex death or it was just an idiom?
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:28 am
Heh. I'd be more surprised if they weren't. And Jardin as well, I assume. He's got a military background, so dark humor is pretty par for the course.Arioch wrote:They are speaking literally.SVlad wrote:I'm not quite sure do Loroi literally bet on alex death or it was just an idiom?
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:04 pm
I wonder what they used as a betting currency.
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 3:56 pm
I always just assumed they had a currency system of some sort, seeing as they do have a civilian populous and interact with several other species.
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:32 pm
They do. One talent is equal to one year's wages for an unskilled laborer. It's every bit as unwieldy as you expect.
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:20 pm
It doesn't pose any kind of problem to deal in fractions of a talent, just as pennies were used as fractions of a pound or dollar (before they were inflated into valuelessness, back when several pounds was an annual salary). However, most of the currency the crews would have would be in military scrip.
I think it's easy to imagine that pilots with short lifespans aren't afraid to bet large sums of money.
I think it's easy to imagine that pilots with short lifespans aren't afraid to bet large sums of money.
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:24 pm
The insider actually has a nice section on the Loroi's economy and monetary system. I've added the relevant section in the spoiler below (Without a spoiler tag this post would be quite bulky). The text itself is a partial copy and paste from this page.Quazel wrote:I always just assumed they had a currency system of some sort, seeing as they do have a civilian populous and interact with several other species.
SpoilerShow
Economy and Civilian Life
The Loroi economy has some free market elements, but it is heavily managed by the military government. Business is considered a civilian pursuit (warriors are prohibited from engaging in commerce or owning businesses), and so profiteering is viewed with suspicion by the ruling warrior class. After the formation of the Union, the Loroi economy opened up somewhat, following more capitalistic models provided by the Neridi and Barsam and other aliens that allowed for faster growth. But many businesses were nationalized under the martial law instituted by Greywind in 2140, so there are still a lot of restrictions on the economy.
How is war production handled for the Loroi? Are ships and such made by civilians or are they in-house projects by the state?
Manufacturing firms are civilian (or alien) companies, though many are heavily managed or outright owned by the state, especially those that are key to the war effort. Defense industries are still civilian, though with military officers heavily involved in design and specifications (as they are with our own civilian military-industrial complex). A significant percentage of Loroi military hardware is produced by alien companies.
The Loroi have an official currency called the talent, worth several thousand dollars; it originated in ancient times on Deinar as a representation of the value of one year of unskilled labor. It is used mainly for high-level transactions between businesses and government entities. Most individual Loroi are members of a caste (either a warrior caste or a civilian guild), which often provides housing and other services as part of the compensation for "employment." Most caste and guild members are not paid a salary; rather, they are allocated a sort of "allowance" that is usually in a local currency or company/military scrip. Most of these currencies have some sort of tradable token that represents cash, but most transactions are virtual (as you would expect at this technology level).
The various alien members of the Union also have their own currencies (or multiple currencies). Alien companies and individuals are treated as civilians under Loroi law, and so are able to engage in commerce. In some ways, alien businesses are viewed by Loroi society with more favor than Loroi civilian businesses, because they do not have the social "taint" of being failed warriors that goes along with the Loroi civilian class. As such, much of the banking and financial business in Loroi territory is handled by Neridi and Barsam firms.
How are Loroi paid? If only the civilians can own businesses, why would warriors stay in the military, and how can the military afford to compete with the private sector in salaries?
In the Loroi system, the military is paramount, and the civilian economy exists almost solely to support the military. The warrior class is the “upper” class, and civilians are considered inferior and usually have a lower standard of living. Most Loroi workers are not free agents; they receive a basic education from the state, but then become apprenticed to a guild upon reaching adulthood to complete their education. Low-ranking Loroi (both warrior and civilian) are a bit like interns; most are not paid a salary, but are trained and housed and fed by their employers. As a Loroi worker rises in position, she gains additional benefits and compensation (sometimes monetary, sometimes not). Guilds are often local monopolies (and the military is also a monopoly), so you can switch jobs, but it’s hard to find higher pay at the same job somewhere else. A civilian Loroi with the proper resources and business acumen (and luck) can start her own business and even potentially form her own guild, which is something that a warrior may never do. However, civilians are excluded from military (and therefore government) service and therefore have little or no say in government. Civilians are also very low in priority when it comes to mating privileges.
Once a Loroi has completed warrior trials, she is part of the society’s elite, and enjoys a comparatively high standard of living, even if she never rises above the lowest rank. Unless she is dishonorably discharged for some reason, she will never "retire" into civilian life. As a warrior, she may sometimes have to dig latrines and her life may frequently be in danger, but that is considered part of a warrior’s duty. If she doesn’t like it, she can choose to suffer the ignominy of demotion to the civilian class. Loroi culture is a warrior culture, instilled with warrior values from birth. Every billet on a starship is much coveted by a large number of available candidates.
Loroi warrior education does have different levels; many technical disciplines require a 4-year education similar to a college degree, and some less-technical disciplines (such as infantry) only require 2 years of training. For example, some of the Soroin you’ve seen in the comic who are wearing jumpsuits instead of armor (such as Cloud the “shoe-girl”) are 2-year-educated “Novice” Soroin, who perform mostly menial tasks. (When considering the length of Loroi secondary education, keep in mind that it begins at age 8, and so includes elements of what we would consider high school.) I haven’t classified these as “enlisted” ranks because the Loroi don’t share our concept of the class division between enlisted and officer; there is no barrier to promotion for a 2-year-educated Soroin to the same higher rank that a 4-year-educated Soroin would have, provided that she puts in the time and work and shows the appropriate aptitude. But if she does not, then like the midshipmen of the age of sail, she may stay a Novice for a very long time. (There are also specialties that require training equivalent to a postgraduate degree, but this is usually attained on the job.)
The Loroi economy has some free market elements, but it is heavily managed by the military government. Business is considered a civilian pursuit (warriors are prohibited from engaging in commerce or owning businesses), and so profiteering is viewed with suspicion by the ruling warrior class. After the formation of the Union, the Loroi economy opened up somewhat, following more capitalistic models provided by the Neridi and Barsam and other aliens that allowed for faster growth. But many businesses were nationalized under the martial law instituted by Greywind in 2140, so there are still a lot of restrictions on the economy.
How is war production handled for the Loroi? Are ships and such made by civilians or are they in-house projects by the state?
Manufacturing firms are civilian (or alien) companies, though many are heavily managed or outright owned by the state, especially those that are key to the war effort. Defense industries are still civilian, though with military officers heavily involved in design and specifications (as they are with our own civilian military-industrial complex). A significant percentage of Loroi military hardware is produced by alien companies.
The Loroi have an official currency called the talent, worth several thousand dollars; it originated in ancient times on Deinar as a representation of the value of one year of unskilled labor. It is used mainly for high-level transactions between businesses and government entities. Most individual Loroi are members of a caste (either a warrior caste or a civilian guild), which often provides housing and other services as part of the compensation for "employment." Most caste and guild members are not paid a salary; rather, they are allocated a sort of "allowance" that is usually in a local currency or company/military scrip. Most of these currencies have some sort of tradable token that represents cash, but most transactions are virtual (as you would expect at this technology level).
The various alien members of the Union also have their own currencies (or multiple currencies). Alien companies and individuals are treated as civilians under Loroi law, and so are able to engage in commerce. In some ways, alien businesses are viewed by Loroi society with more favor than Loroi civilian businesses, because they do not have the social "taint" of being failed warriors that goes along with the Loroi civilian class. As such, much of the banking and financial business in Loroi territory is handled by Neridi and Barsam firms.
How are Loroi paid? If only the civilians can own businesses, why would warriors stay in the military, and how can the military afford to compete with the private sector in salaries?
In the Loroi system, the military is paramount, and the civilian economy exists almost solely to support the military. The warrior class is the “upper” class, and civilians are considered inferior and usually have a lower standard of living. Most Loroi workers are not free agents; they receive a basic education from the state, but then become apprenticed to a guild upon reaching adulthood to complete their education. Low-ranking Loroi (both warrior and civilian) are a bit like interns; most are not paid a salary, but are trained and housed and fed by their employers. As a Loroi worker rises in position, she gains additional benefits and compensation (sometimes monetary, sometimes not). Guilds are often local monopolies (and the military is also a monopoly), so you can switch jobs, but it’s hard to find higher pay at the same job somewhere else. A civilian Loroi with the proper resources and business acumen (and luck) can start her own business and even potentially form her own guild, which is something that a warrior may never do. However, civilians are excluded from military (and therefore government) service and therefore have little or no say in government. Civilians are also very low in priority when it comes to mating privileges.
Once a Loroi has completed warrior trials, she is part of the society’s elite, and enjoys a comparatively high standard of living, even if she never rises above the lowest rank. Unless she is dishonorably discharged for some reason, she will never "retire" into civilian life. As a warrior, she may sometimes have to dig latrines and her life may frequently be in danger, but that is considered part of a warrior’s duty. If she doesn’t like it, she can choose to suffer the ignominy of demotion to the civilian class. Loroi culture is a warrior culture, instilled with warrior values from birth. Every billet on a starship is much coveted by a large number of available candidates.
Loroi warrior education does have different levels; many technical disciplines require a 4-year education similar to a college degree, and some less-technical disciplines (such as infantry) only require 2 years of training. For example, some of the Soroin you’ve seen in the comic who are wearing jumpsuits instead of armor (such as Cloud the “shoe-girl”) are 2-year-educated “Novice” Soroin, who perform mostly menial tasks. (When considering the length of Loroi secondary education, keep in mind that it begins at age 8, and so includes elements of what we would consider high school.) I haven’t classified these as “enlisted” ranks because the Loroi don’t share our concept of the class division between enlisted and officer; there is no barrier to promotion for a 2-year-educated Soroin to the same higher rank that a 4-year-educated Soroin would have, provided that she puts in the time and work and shows the appropriate aptitude. But if she does not, then like the midshipmen of the age of sail, she may stay a Novice for a very long time. (There are also specialties that require training equivalent to a postgraduate degree, but this is usually attained on the job.)
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:52 pm
Oh, there are other bets possible on a ship:
cleaning duty of the latrines;
a particularly wanted ration (e.g. your monthly coffee ration);
...
cleaning duty of the latrines;
a particularly wanted ration (e.g. your monthly coffee ration);
...
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 3:33 pm
harlequin2262 wrote:I wonder what they used as a betting currency.
Ice cream rations, what else?
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 5:01 am
Out of curiosity, did you ever read the archives of the old forums?Excellion wrote:02-03-2016 (23:00) Read through the comic a second time. Haven't really looked around the other parts of the site yet. Now what is that "Insider" page subtitled Extra's? A few extra sketches perhaps?
...That sounds more like a med-tech than a pilot.Excellion wrote:If Spiral had been more fluent in the trade language i assume her reply would be something akin to "There were signs of asphyxiation and severe haemorrhage. Under such conditions he must have deemed his survival changes to be low. "
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:18 am
Civilians... always at a way with words...Absalom wrote:...That sounds more like a med-tech than a pilot.Excellion wrote:If Spiral had been more fluent in the trade language i assume her reply would be something akin to "There were signs of asphyxiation and severe haemorrhage. Under such conditions he must have deemed his survival changes to be low. "
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:10 pm
I know they exist, but i am still soldiering though all the current forum posts (I read the Loroi thread, but i still need to go though the Terran and Umiak threads and afterwards scan if there is any other interesting threads). The sheer amount of background information and detail is staggering; And i'm loving every bit of it.Absalom wrote:Out of curiosity, did you ever read the archives of the old forums?Excellion wrote:02-03-2016 (23:00) Read through the comic a second time. Haven't really looked around the other parts of the site yet. Now what is that "Insider" page subtitled Extra's? A few extra sketches perhaps?
... Right you are. I was trying to rewrite Spiral's line into something that sounded less broken but translating "gurgle-gurgle" into anything remotely fitting took a few attempts. "Asphyxiation" seemed to be the best option but that word felt out of place. So eventually i just gave up and went for the med-tech line figuring that exaggeration might just work to get the point across.Absalom wrote:...That sounds more like a med-tech than a pilot.Excellion wrote:If Spiral had been more fluent in the trade language i assume her reply would be something akin to "There were signs of asphyxiation and severe haemorrhage. Under such conditions he must have deemed his survival changes to be low. "
That said: After re-reading that line i agree it definitely doesn't sounds like anything ye-average pilot would say.
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:52 pm
Humanity Fuck Yeah!
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:20 am
Yeah, I'm thinking something more like "He was covered in red stuff that looked like blood, and gurgling up bubbles of it. Even he would have bet vacuum-fresh corpse.".Excellion wrote:... Right you are. I was trying to rewrite Spiral's line into something that sounded less broken but translating "gurgle-gurgle" into anything remotely fitting took a few attempts. "Asphyxiation" seemed to be the best option but that word felt out of place. So eventually i just gave up and went for the med-tech line figuring that exaggeration might just work to get the point across.Absalom wrote:...That sounds more like a med-tech than a pilot.Excellion wrote:If Spiral had been more fluent in the trade language i assume her reply would be something akin to "There were signs of asphyxiation and severe haemorrhage. Under such conditions he must have deemed his survival changes to be low. "
That said: After re-reading that line i agree it definitely doesn't sounds like anything ye-average pilot would say.
That's not all that good either. Anyone who talks normaller than me care to take up the challenge?
Re: P A G E 1 1 3
Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 3:42 am
WHOOOOO, NEW PAGE!!!!!
I think Spiral just jumped to the top of my favorites list !
I think Spiral just jumped to the top of my favorites list !