[Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror (Completed)

[Tamri]

@Duradys

SpoilerShow

You are reading too much into it.

The need and want to have children is hardwired on the human male as well which is the reason as to why men pursue marriage with the female they are with. A marriage is a social contract with the intention of starting a family, a man who doesn't want children simply doesn't have any desire to marry.

So the women are safe in that regard.

What they are not safe with is nagging their men to death (read up how nagging is actually a detriment to a man's health) and divorcing them when 'something better' (i.e. a more handsome and/or richer man) shows interest.

So in short all a woman has to do in order to overcome Loroi competition is this:

Take care of herself and her body (Fat chicks get nothing)
Don't be a bitch to their men (That's probably the greatest draw of a Loroi permanent partner since I can't imagine a Loroi nagging a man)
Be loyal to their men.
Extra points if they can cook well.

And the women must have worked this out because the human population went from 25 billion to over 100 billion in the span of a century.

Of course there is also the possibility of Human/Loroi married couples hiring surrogates but the children of such couple should, at most, be a handful of billions over the span of a century.

There will of course be 'leftover' women but those will probably be the careerists who even today show little interest in family matters.

Are you sure? Now a modern family model - in fact a relic of old as shit mammoth tribal patriarchal concept of the family, and this is due to a lot more culture than instinct. Instincts are much simpler and more reliable. However, gender equality and the concept of free family went to mass nearly 100 years ago - and now that many looks for a family of people scarcely not the same as the people themselves. What will happen when he finally extinct generation, who grew up in a rigidly patriarchal traditions - hell knows.

As I said, the development of technologies more rid the birth by sex and pregnancy. I fully admit that at some level of development of this method will generally undesirable for a number of purely practical reasons. In such circumstances, competition with exotic "El Lady" is able to do very damaging to women (by the way, is another fertile ground for the cultivation of chauvinism to "outsiders").

The methods of struggle that you described, just like Loroi men position in their society, with the only difference being that they have no competition and other options, they simply don't know.

Plus, with a very strong desire ways around the biochemical barriers are have, and thus concept of the interspecific family has a right to life that another brick in the head and another source of conflicts.

Finally, although Loroi is far from us in terms of flexibility of thinking, but they are also able to adapt to changing conditions, and hence the future changes in the mass consciousness as a minimum Loroi diaspora in the Confederacy is also not far away.


In short, it is difficult here to say who will be worse off this interchange in a long-term...

[Krulle]

Don't be a bitch to their men (That's probably the greatest draw of a Loroi permanent partner since I can't imagine a Loroi nagging a man)

Huh?
Strong women nag mroe, as they know they can live independently from their man. They expect the man to pull his weight around too.
And I definitely see the Loroi demand that of their Human male partner.
Up to a level that >80% of us Human males would love an adventure with a Loroi, but would leave it at that. Too much work to keep her.
10% would not be attracted to Loroi anyway.
The last 10% either did never get a chance, or are of Alexander's style, strong and independent. The relation of the latter group is more one of convenience. Everyone lives their own live, and their homes just have the same address. You see that a lot in todays relations in Western societies. Real equals, which often only works as long as no spawn has enlarged the family.


But indeed. If the Loroi females would actively do that, Human Society, and with that Humanity could be destroyed within a few generations (also depending on "if the hybrids are fertile", and "are the hybrids more Loroi or more Human").
Take the long term view, and the Mizol and her kind won. It was not a weaponized destruction, but done by the civilian population.

[dragoongfa]

@Tamri

The family is not an outdated concept, in fact its by far the most stable pillar of any society; if the family unit disappears human society will inevitably collapse.

The western family, especially the US family, is collapsing for two reasons:

1st: Divorce incentivization by the state. US women are financially better off if they divorce their men after they have had children, the US laws are set up in such a way that the woman will get alimony, child custody and child support 90% of the time. The divorce rate of the US is 60% and rising for a reason. The US marriage rate is at an all time law and plummeting for a reason.

2nd: State and Federal subsidies for single mothers. This has hit the African-American family the hardest so far because these policies were first applied to their community. Now more than 70% of African-Americans are now born out of wedlock. Which means that these children grow up without a paternal figure.

This destruction of the US family has already shown its disastrous results through the state sanctioned abandonment of marriage by the African-American community:

The impoverisation of the African-American community since the men see no incentive to attain a well paying and stable job in order to attract a lifelong partner.
The rampant crime rate of African-American youth who lack a respectable paternal figure.
The collapsing intellectual performance of African-American students.

So far the signs of the disbandment of the family unit are disastrous in every way imaginable. If we are to maintain our societies then the institution of marriage must remain strong and as was before the incentivization of its destruction.

@Krulle

The natural inclination of a Loroi female is to provide everything to a male. They are like us men in this regard so I doubt that they would nag to their men, unless there are men who nag to their women for not pulling their weight around in the same way women do to men.

[Krulle]

I never saw me providing for everything.....

But then, when I do deliver, I want to see results. (Or "results" first - depending on her wishes (diamond earring comes spontaneously to mind).)

I cannot imagine the Loroi female to be different.
Instinctively protective is one thing.(I am that too. Did cost me a lot already.)
But when you know the surrounding and everything is safe for the "protected" individual, well, payback time. If that does not happen, nagging time. Just like I see around me happening everwhere. And as I have observed in myself.

There are reasons why the divorce rates are climbing.
People expect too much out of a relationship.
Especially the strong ones /the providers do.


Right now, the Loroi are explaining only their instincts they have been trained to have, and possibly even genetically ingrained.
But we have not seen the actual behaviour of Loroi females in "safe" environments. Yet.
When you instictively know, everything has been provided for (safety, housing, food), your behaviour towards and demands from your protégées change.

I cannot imagine the Loroi female NOT nagging.
I can see them trying to tough it out, and putting their hurt feelings aside for a long time (compared to how long our Human females tend to bottle it up....).
But I cannot see them doing that for a very long time.

But, the main advantage of having a Loroi female as partner is of course her lack of aging within your life time.
Even if you bond with an older one, she will likely outsurvive you by 5 decades.
Which causes its own issues within a mixed Loroi/Humanity society.

[Tamri]

@Tamri

SpoilerShow

The family is not an outdated concept, in fact its by far the most stable pillar of any society; if the family unit disappears human society will inevitably collapse.

The western family, especially the US family, is collapsing for two reasons:

1st: Divorce incentivization by the state. US women are financially better off if they divorce their men after they have had children, the US laws are set up in such a way that the woman will get alimony, child custody and child support 90% of the time. The divorce rate of the US is 60% and rising for a reason. The US marriage rate is at an all time law and plummeting for a reason.

2nd: State and Federal subsidies for single mothers. This has hit the African-American family the hardest so far because these policies were first applied to their community. Now more than 70% of African-Americans are now born out of wedlock. Which means that these children grow up without a paternal figure.

This destruction of the US family has already shown its disastrous results through the state sanctioned abandonment of marriage by the African-American community:

The impoverisation of the African-American community since the men see no incentive to attain a well paying and stable job in order to attract a lifelong partner.
The rampant crime rate of African-American youth who lack a respectable paternal figure.
The collapsing intellectual performance of African-American students.

So far the signs of the disbandment of the family unit are disastrous in every way imaginable. If we are to maintain our societies then the institution of marriage must remain strong and as was before the incentivization of its destruction.

I just read some nonsense. A lot of nonsense.

Firstly - I didn't say that the family as an institution will disappear. I said that the current model family - a relic of the rigidly patriarchal system, which the modern world is no longer.

Secondly - I pointed out that progress towards gender equality beginning relatively recently, how not look at any scale. And the results visible are now to the naked eye and continue to grow. How will the society, if the cook in this boullion a century, in the absence of any capital social disasters - no one knows. Especially you or me.

The third - a unit of society - the person, not the family. Family - model only socially acceptable interaction, which is under a joint achievement of some practical purposes. In our case, it is usually the birth and upbringing of children. Personally, I think that the changed role of the family, but the institution doesn't disappear. In the end, it is quite deeply intertwined in our, as a culture, and civilization. These mastodons don't disappear with one kick. But I am sure, that in 100 years the family would absolutely not what we mean by that word today.

Finally, in the fourth - family is there are alternatives, and there are many. And if you want - very easy to come up with something that suits you more. Now there is a reformatting of the mass consciousness, and how it will end - time will tell. In this fun time we even have a good chance to live up to this significant date.

[Krulle]

@Krulle

The natural inclination of a Loroi female is to provide everything to a male. They are like us men in this regard so I doubt that they would nag to their men, unless there are men who nag to their women for not pulling their weight around in the same way women do to men.

Another thought:

As far as my observations go, women pull more weight around than us men.
That may be different in higher societies, where there's a nanny and a cleaning lady.
But in lower levels, definitely she pulls more.
As you pointed out, kid raising is mostly done by her. The risk of being single mom and earning the household money is far greater than becoming single dad and having to earn all.

In most cases I see the female pulling more. It's the skewed percerption of this society that rewards paid-for jobs higher than the hours spent in household and with kids, which leads to many men thinking they are pulling more. Look at the number of hours spent doing work and (unrewarded) chores. And then say who pulls more.

My wife is among the "strong ones". She works as many hours as I do.
And she does most of the household chores. (In exchange, I do repairs and garden.)

We both nag at each other. For a variety of reasons.

And I know plenty of men who nag at their current female partner. Also for a variety of reasons.
Also quite a few of the "classic role models" households (him working, her household/kids). She nags because things are needed. He nags because she can't keep up with the workload of kids and chores.

Result: I got deaf to nagging. I distill what needs to be done (e.g. light in garage still broken - blah blah blah), and try to find time to do that. I imagine she does the same with my nagging. The next day I mostly don't remember having been nagged for something.


Nah - nagging is no reason to choose for a "strong" wife.

[dragoongfa]

@Tamri

And all I read is wishful thinking...

For the past 70 years the USA has been the trendsetter in regards to social issues with absolutely no exception. The currently mainstream trend in the US and large parts of Europe is the demonization of manhood, fatherhood and the destruction of the family unit. The results are obvious to those who see them without any ideological blinders.

@Krulle

I understand what you mean my mother and my two grandmothers pulled more than their partner by a respectable margin but all three families had their issues whose guilt has admittedly been laid mostly on the three women involved. Ones is a shrilly control freak who mentally tortured her husband to death (literal death by nagging) and two of them didn't want anyone helping them in the housework even as their bodies collapsed from exertion.

For a healthy familial relationship there needs to be a balance and respect to each other but for some reason this doesn't happen on most families I have seen and heard from regardless of who pulls more (which in most cases I have observed its the man, in both Greek or other families).

EDIT: Forgot to write something:

The divorce rates are climbing because many women demand perfection without offering perfection in return; no one can have their cake and eat it but for some reason the modern young woman has been convinced that she is a princess and must be treated like royalty at all times.

This won't work at all.

[raistlin34]

@Tamri

SpoilerShow

The family is not an outdated concept, in fact its by far the most stable pillar of any society; if the family unit disappears human society will inevitably collapse.

The western family, especially the US family, is collapsing for two reasons:

1st: Divorce incentivization by the state. US women are financially better off if they divorce their men after they have had children, the US laws are set up in such a way that the woman will get alimony, child custody and child support 90% of the time. The divorce rate of the US is 60% and rising for a reason. The US marriage rate is at an all time law and plummeting for a reason.

2nd: State and Federal subsidies for single mothers. This has hit the African-American family the hardest so far because these policies were first applied to their community. Now more than 70% of African-Americans are now born out of wedlock. Which means that these children grow up without a paternal figure.

This destruction of the US family has already shown its disastrous results through the state sanctioned abandonment of marriage by the African-American community:

The impoverisation of the African-American community since the men see no incentive to attain a well paying and stable job in order to attract a lifelong partner.
The rampant crime rate of African-American youth who lack a respectable paternal figure.
The collapsing intellectual performance of African-American students.

So far the signs of the disbandment of the family unit are disastrous in every way imaginable. If we are to maintain our societies then the institution of marriage must remain strong and as was before the incentivization of its destruction.

I just read some nonsense. A lot of nonsense.

Firstly - I didn't say that the family as an institution will disappear. I said that the current model family - a relic of the rigidly patriarchal system, which the modern world is no longer.

Secondly - I pointed out that progress towards gender equality beginning relatively recently, how not look at any scale. And the results visible are now to the naked eye and continue to grow. How will the society, if the cook in this boullion a century, in the absence of any capital social disasters - no one knows. Especially you or me.

The third - a unit of society - the person, not the family. Family - model only socially acceptable interaction, which is under a joint achievement of some practical purposes. In our case, it is usually the birth and upbringing of children. Personally, I think that the changed role of the family, but the institution doesn't disappear. In the end, it is quite deeply intertwined in our, as a culture, and civilization. These mastodons don't disappear with one kick. But I am sure, that in 100 years the family would absolutely not what we mean by that word today.

Finally, in the fourth - family is there are alternatives, and there are many. And if you want - very easy to come up with something that suits you more. Now there is a reformatting of the mass consciousness, and how it will end - time will tell. In this fun time we even have a good chance to live up to this significant date.

I pretty much agree with everything you posted. I remember an article I read a time ago about the myth of the traditional family. It even mention "Pleasantville" as a Take That to the "traditional values".
http://www.criticalenquiry.org/theory/society.shtml

[Krulle]

The divorce rates are climbing because many women demand perfection without offering perfection in return; no one can have their cake and eat it but for some reason the modern young woman has been convinced that she is a princess and must be treated like royalty at all times.

This won't work at all.

The divorce rates are climbing because many women demand perfection without offering perfection in return; no one can have their cake and eat it but for some reason the modern young woman has been convinced that she is a princess and must be treated like royalty at all times (at that the woman actually wants to serve him any of his wishes, without minor reciprocity).

This won't work at all.


I have observed both, and lately more of the men demanding her to be
1) a beauty queen when in public
2) a cleaning lady in the household
3) a >1* cook in the kitchen
4) a w...e in bed;
than the reverse.

We men are at fault too.
Possibly life has gotten too easy in the civilization. Possibly we need to revert to having real dangers.
Being as safe as we are, having the living standard most of us enjoy without putting in excessive hours....
We've forgotten how to be happy.

Women demanding more is just one factor. I agree to that factor.
But it would be folly to say we men are without the same faults.

[raistlin34]

The divorce rates are climbing because many women demand perfection without offering perfection in return; no one can have their cake and eat it but for some reason the modern young woman has been convinced that she is a princess and must be treated like royalty at all times.

This won't work at all.

The divorce rates are climbing because many women demand perfection without offering perfection in return; no one can have their cake and eat it but for some reason the modern young woman has been convinced that she is a princess and must be treated like royalty at all times (at that the woman actually wants to serve him any of his wishes, without minor reciprocity).

This won't work at all.


I have observed both, and lately more of the men demanding her to be
1) a beauty queen when in public
2) a cleaning lady in the household
3) a >1* cook in the kitchen
4) a w...e in bed;
than the reverse.

We men are at fault too.
Possibly life has gotten too easy in the civilization. Possibly we need to revert to having real dangers.
Being as safe as we are, having the living standard most of us enjoy without putting in excessive hours....
We've forgotten how to be happy.

Women demanding more is just one factor. I agree to that factor.
But it would be folly to say we men are without the same faults.

Or because women before could not archieve the same education and employment opportunities as men (and neither today , but the current gap is far lesser than a few decades ago). Or because they were not allowed to divorce in the first place, no matter the circunstances (it was always the women fault, after all) and the pregnant-out-of-wedlock ones were marginalized .
If there are more divorces in the present than in the so-called "traditional family golden age" it´s simply because now, they are feasible.

[Tamri]

@Tamri

And all I read is wishful thinking...

For the past 70 years the USA has been the trendsetter in regards to social issues with absolutely no exception. The currently mainstream trend in the US and large parts of Europe is the demonization of manhood, fatherhood and the destruction of the family unit. The results are obvious to those who see them without any ideological blinders.

Well, good luck to you, this what you ... oh, how she needed.

You're trying to tell me here what is the defective family and that comes from this. As if I do not know. Yes, I didn't see the middle of the 20th century, but from my knoll too which-that is clear, and it looks exactly as I described. With regard to the value system of "spirituality, morality, respectability" and other "white man's burden" I will say one thing - you were deceived. And very ugly.

All that a person needs, is reduced to a series of simple and understandable to all needs, such as: attention, communication, food, rest and reproduction. Some mutants can be identified even curiosity. In terms of instincts, we are still social apes, view the profile. Noticeable change is the beginning recently, and the process is still in the stage of pre-flight preparation.

Therefore, all their cultural stereotypes can be spread out in this five or six shelves. And pay attention, that the Culture contrasted Nature, ie, natural. Culture, not the Society. Society is to satisfy the needs of its constituent individuals. Changing needs - and to change society, it is inevitable. And you go out that Culture and Society - is some monoliths of steel, which were the same, and always will remain. While IRL is scarcely not the most flexible and short-lived elements of our civilization. The collapse of these - there will be others. So it was before, and will continue.

[dragoongfa]

The divorce rates are climbing because many women demand perfection without offering perfection in return; no one can have their cake and eat it but for some reason the modern young woman has been convinced that she is a princess and must be treated like royalty at all times.

This won't work at all.

The divorce rates are climbing because many women demand perfection without offering perfection in return; no one can have their cake and eat it but for some reason the modern young woman has been convinced that she is a princess and must be treated like royalty at all times (at that the woman actually wants to serve him any of his wishes, without minor reciprocity).

This won't work at all.


I have observed both, and lately more of the men demanding her to be
1) a beauty queen when in public
2) a cleaning lady in the household
3) a >1* cook in the kitchen
4) a w...e in bed;
than the reverse.

We men are at fault too.
Possibly life has gotten too easy in the civilization. Possibly we need to revert to having real dangers.
Being as safe as we are, having the living standard most of us enjoy without putting in excessive hours....
We've forgotten how to be happy.

Women demanding more is just one factor. I agree to that factor.
But it would be folly to say we men are without the same faults.

Of course we are not innocent but from my observations we are still far behind the unreasonable curve

By far the most important is point 1 btw:

1) Statistically women find men far less attractive than men do women.

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your- ... ne-dating/

The best looking women do get far more attention than the least looking but even the least attractive women get more messages and attention from men than average attractive men do from any kind of women. The disparity in messaging can be encompassed with this: Men are hardwired to take mental and emotional risks in finding a partner and women are thus left to pick and choose from the pool of candidates that has shown interest.

Things are made even more surreal with the conflicting messages that modern men receive on how they should act and what makes them attractive to women:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/th ... ted-dating

2) It all comes down to who gets sex afterwards:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/08/opini ... .html?_r=1

In short: Men who do manly housework get more sex, women who do womanly housework get more sex.

3) Love marches through the stomach.

4) I had a girlfriend who just laid there like a piece of meat, it was terrible.

EDIT: Forgot something: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/th ... -heres-why

70% of all divorces in the US are initiated by the woman.