Writing Prompts

[dragoongfa]

I disagree on the reasons for the Umiak being so aggressive, my take on them is that the Umiak as a people are very proud and domineering; wanting to bash everything that stands into submission. This is the general outline of the Umiak I had in my mind about them so Alex could give some input after studying some salvaged records about them that the Loroi would provide ('give me something to get a little more insight on the enemy' kind of thing.)

My take on the Umiak and their inflexible aggression is that it is in their nature to overcome adversity with group effort. As a people they come from the Hal-Tik who were backwards barbarians when compared to the technologically advanced Tizik-tik which they massacred; not through guile and trickery but from seer effort, adaptation and violence. It takes a lot of fortitude to rise up as non industrial barbarians to face a post industrial civilization and actually overcome them through millennia of unceasing warfare. This backstory of the Umiak isn't as much a failure of the Tizik-tik to combat the Hal-Tik but a testament to the monomaniacal perseverance of the Hal-Tik, they rose from swords and spears nomads and took down a post industrial society; no matter how soft the Tizik-tik were the imbalance of power was monstrous and the Hal-Tik fucking won.

This cannot be done without a sociobiological obsession for aggressive dominance, they attacked, attacked, attacked and attacked until their enemies broke; much like how even the mightiest mountains will break from the unflinching assault of the tide. This is further collaborated with the way they run their Empire, as task masters whose orders are obeyed; they don't even kid about the welfare of their subjugated races, mutual prosperity and all that, they may maneuver diplomatically to gain what they want without shedding blood but what they want is for them to be the uncontested dominators of all they know about.

They attack not because of politics and greed like we humans did, they don't subjugate for a purpose; subjugation is their purpose. As they as individuals subject themselves fully to the Hierarchy from the moment they are born, they too expect the Hierarchy to subjugate all others who by all means are 'inferior' to the Umiak. In short their mindset isn't 'bend the knee so I can get richer'; no, their mindset is: 'Bend the knee and keep it bent for all eternity because that's what you have to do.'

That's their geopolitical imperative; their tactical imperative is bound to be aggressive as well, if only because they are armored quadrupeds. They are natural armored fighters who bashed themselves against each other all the way from sentience to sapience. If they were solitary creatures they would have become proud and honor bound as individuals but they seem to have been pack animals; packs of them bashing against each other for dominance and territory and the vast majority of any pack submit to an Alpha. Wolves, Lions, Apes and others, all pack animals have an Alpha and the others are humble and obedient towards them.

Through this biological imperative the Hierarchy was born and through this imperative their constant aggressiveness is brought forth. As pack animals they constantly tested each other for territory and dominance; they didn't attack to gain something from it but the act of attacking and testing the enemy's mettle was the purpose itself. Constantly testing them until a weakness was found, then they would exploit that weakness, dominate their enemy and then move to their next target.

They are a neighbor from Hell for any pacifist but fortunately they run into the Loroi who don't seem to be able to bend the knee.

[novius]

They are a neighbor from Hell for any pacifist but fortunately they run into the Loroi who don't seem to be able to bend the knee.

Well put, and it brings us to the age-old question of the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object, so to say. Much less of what happens to whatever is caught inbetween....

[Razor One]

Latest New Frontiers is up. Apologies for the delay on my end, I've had a bit of a shit time since my last.

Regarding the latest developments:

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It's a bit info-dumpy, but it offers a wider look at the situation the Loroi Union is in, how it got there, and where Bastal sees it as heading in. The wider look at the Union as a whole from Bastal's viewpoint could also potentially open up additional storylines down the road. I also left things open so that Werra could write Coral and Natan meeting. Also left things open so that if he does need to go to space to get some additional treatment, he'll have some familiar faces in tow.

As to the situation the Loroi are in, mostly point for point what I was discussing earlier some pages back regarding politics, the splinter wars and some of Bastal's background. 350 years is plenty of time for her to do all that and probably quite a lot more, and her motivation feels organic to her upbringing, the history she lived through, and the upcoming events on the timeline. I might have portrayed her as a bit bloody minded given her musings on making use of others, but I figure that's kind of an artifact of being a centuries old mizol.

Happy to discuss anything that wasn't clear, controversial, or make corrections if I got something clearly wrong.

[Zarya]

warning: this really is a spoiler, you should read NF first.

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"Bastal held out her hand expectantly."

flipping brilliant - hats off to you...

[Werra]

@dragoongfa
That does sound very plausible. Then the Umiak would throw themselfes at the Loroi following their cultural identity. It still doesn't make tactical sense though.

And I don't think the Umiak follow Alphas. Humility and self sacrifice seems to be their biggest virtue.

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Atheistic monarchists versus christian space communists.

@NF

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It's 1320 in NF right now. If Bastal is 500 tozon old, then she was born 820 right at the start of the first Mannadi war and 40 years after the end of the splinter wars. I understand the narrative being set up and it still makes sense. Just something to consider.

[novius]

@NF
Good addition, definitely lays down some foundations for future additions. Or dedicated sequels.

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Having lived as long as she did, Bastal definitely has her own share of regrets and nightmares, especially having lived through the aftermath of a civil war which may have had no clear victor, but resulted in a phase of upheaval, serious enough that whole provinces would be considered as 'failed' in the sense of failed state.

And she already sees the writing on the wall again. The Loroi are about to head into another war, and it does sound very much like that Bastal as a Mizol has an objection to the idea that Argent's whole generation was already born and raised with the sole purpose to fight, and most probably die in the oncoming war. Sure she is no pacifist herself, but as to her caste's tenets, she'd prefer the metaphorical dagger over a club, and Natan, while the implications of his presence are as dangerous as a ticking time bomb, definitely provides a lot of opportunities she wishes to seize.

Bastal proposing that they should touch and thus link their thoughts is quite amusing on more than one level. Mizol are adept on manipulating their throughts enough to lie via sanzai, and Argent having reduced them to the need of speaking sort of levelled the playing field - the diral and Nathanial were able to tell untruths as well. Of course that wouldn't sit well with Bastal - sucks when the shoe is on the other foot, right?

[Razor One]

And I don't think the Umiak follow Alphas. Humility and self sacrifice seems to be their biggest virtue.

The Umiak would have Omegas, not Alphas. Each one seeks to apologise, debase, and otherwise seek to be more humble and self sacrificing than the next guy.

Huh. That actually explains their incessant waffling. They're highly aggressive, apologetic, and polite ravaging despoilers.

"We apologise deeply for dismembering your person, who now bleeds in the soil which will grow new life and feed new generations, this necessary dismemberment, being necessary for the furtherance of the hierarchy, is regrettably necessary, for which we apologise for the necessity. Your lands, being rich and fertile, will be regrettably redistributed amongst our tribe and alas away from yours whom will, unfortunately, now be dispossessed of all their worldly belongings before also being, regrettably, dismembered, their blood soaking the ground, their lives forfeit to the greater cause. Fret not, for your death serves a greater purpose, that purpose being the purpose for which the hierarchy derives its future."

@NF

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It's 1320 in NF right now. If Bastal is 500 tozon old, then she was born 820 right at the start of the first Mannadi war and 40 years after the end of the splinter wars. I understand the narrative being set up and it still makes sense. Just something to consider.

@NF

SpoilerShow

I think we're getting into the Tozon issue again. I reckoned Bastal's birth as being circa the 1420's AD, just after the splinter wars. She missed the war, but was born in the era of its aftermath.

I'm mostly using the Deinar Tozon rather than the Perrein Tozon for three reasons. For one, it makes timescales much easier to grasp at a glance for the reader. For two, they're on Deinar, so using Deinarii standards feels the most correct, and finally, it's early days for the Union. They may have switched to the Perreini Tozon after the Neridi succession war, possibly because Perreins (or a certain scheming mizol's ) contributions to the war.

From a quick calc though, 350 Years = 497.65 Perreini Tozons, so that seems about right.

@NF

SpoilerShow

Having lived as long as she did, Bastal definitely has her own share of regrets and nightmares, especially having lived through the aftermath of a civil war which may have had no clear victor, but resulted in a phase of upheaval, serious enough that whole provinces would be considered as 'failed' in the sense of failed state.

And she already sees the writing on the wall again. The Loroi are about to head into another war, and it does sound very much like that Bastal as a Mizol has an objection to the idea that Argent's whole generation was already born and raised with the sole purpose to fight, and most probably die in the oncoming war. Sure she is no pacifist herself, but as to her caste's tenets, she'd prefer the metaphorical dagger over a club, and Natan, while the implications of his presence are as dangerous as a ticking time bomb, definitely provides a lot of opportunities she wishes to seize.

Bastal proposing that they should touch and thus link their thoughts is quite amusing on more than one level. Mizol are adept on manipulating their throughts enough to lie via sanzai, and Argent having reduced them to the need of speaking sort of levelled the playing field - the diral and Nathanial were able to tell untruths as well. Of course that wouldn't sit well with Bastal - sucks when the shoe is on the other foot, right?

More NF Spoilers

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I imagined that after the lengthy civil war there'd be an extended period of reconstruction, recovery, and yes, large areas that amounted to failed states. Dissident groups could easily sustain themselves for generations if public order broke down to the point that males became vulnerable to raiding, and to say that such a lengthy conflict could come to a swift and clean end after so much blood being spilled is unlikely in the extreme.

I tried to contextualise Argent's group as being amongst the first wave of an expanded military growth program. In time, they'd form a solid core of experienced Soroin who would herd the upcoming fresh meat (IE, their own daughters) in the coming conflict. The reason for this is that if you recruit too many people too quickly your average skill level drops like a stone and your performance suffers. Staggering recruitment so the fresh meat can get tenderised allows you to grow your military without sacrificing performance, but takes time. Given that the story initially started in 1777, and it's currently 1779, the next generation will roll off in 1791, pretty much bang on time to join the Neridi Succesion War.

Bastal is definitely making a calculated risk with offering her hand, but it's one that Argent can't actually refuse without appearing to be dishonest. Bastal knows all her secrets already, unless she's got a bigger secret than harbouring an alien male, the advantage would arguably appear to be in Argent's court. The thing is, I think Bastal already has Argent pegged as a good person, and that fatal flaw is exactly how she'll turn her to her cause. A good person tries to prevent a civil war. A good person doesn't want to raise their daughter for the sole purpose of murdering their kin. A good person won't let Natan be turned into a science experiment, and a good person will see that while Bastal's loyalties are perhaps a tangled mess*, she's trying to do an arguably good thing.

*Is she loyal to the Union? Her caste? The Emperor? Her subordinates? Yes. In that order. Though the last two can switch if it suits the first two more. As can the former two.

[Werra]

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I think we're getting into the Tozon issue again.

It's fine, as all the numbers are taken from the same timeline. All those numbers are given in Perrein years. It's actually very straightforward. A Perrein year is 0.7* earth years. Meaning just add 3 for every ten. A hundred years become 130 tozon and a Lorois expected natural lifespan of 400 years becomes 520 tozon.
By pure coincidence Bastal would have been born right at the start of the first Mannadi war if she were 500 tozon. Maybe as part of the wartime boom?
Anyway, she'd be old enough to conceivably drop dead any minute now as 'average' means that many don't make it. Like if she were in her human 70s or so.

Depends on what her role in this story is supposed to be. I'm okay with writing a really old Loroi that's cramming a lot of stuff into her last years or giving her a couple decades more. We'd just need to stick with one age.

*0.7033 years to be precise. Dropping the 0.033 means a discrepancy of 0.33 years per 100 tozon, less than two years over a Lorois full lifespan.

And personally I'd stick to the Perrein year as the timeline we all check is using it and since Perrein year 0 is literally when Deinar and Perrein make contact.

What numbers were you using to get 497 tozon from 350 years?

@Aftermath of civil war
Entirely conceivable that some long lived grudges remained long after the end of hostilities as Loroi live just as long. But with their quick generations, those wounds may also heal surprisingly quickly.


Lastly I'd also like to point out that what is good might be entirely different to a Loroi. Even within our own species our framework massively shifted between centuries and cultures. The Loroi define themselfes as a created warrior species. The root of that believe is that their reproduction is a basic adaptation for such a species. The prospect of birthing the future Verloren Hoop might even be the moral good for them.
A strong motivation to work against civil war might be nationalism and yes,the believe in Loroi superiority over other species of the actors involved.

Damn, that was wordy.

I should have a new part for NF up tomorrow.

SpoilerShow

The Diral realises that they aren't in control of the Lotai at all. Also Coral has some minor work to do on Nathans wound but uses the opportunity to get some samples from him. And shows him what a Loroi dick looks like.

[Zarya]

Verloren hoop indeed fits in a special forces tradition “As Far As the Sister Worlds Extend” (Qua Patet Orbi Sororium).

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I sure hope Coral isn’t a hermaphrodite... and that Bastal won’t use the diral as mere cannon fodder.

[Razor One]

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Anyway, she'd be old enough to conceivably drop dead any minute now as 'average' means that many don't make it. Like if she were in her human 70s or so.

Depends on what her role in this story is supposed to be. I'm okay with writing a really old Loroi that's cramming a lot of stuff into her last years or giving her a couple decades more. We'd just need to stick with one age.

*0.7033 years to be precise. Dropping the 0.033 means a discrepancy of 0.33 years per 100 tozon, less than two years over a Lorois full lifespan.

And personally I'd stick to the Perrein year as the timeline we all check is using it and since Perrein year 0 is literally when Deinar and Perrein make contact.

What numbers were you using to get 497 tozon from 350 years?

SpoilerShow

Bastal could probably take on a mentor role for the group and Argent in particular, passing her personal mission on to them. She's definitely their in for becoming mizol as stipulated over in Beacons, to say nothing of likely being the one to disappear them and place them with the Hos'te Blec.

I got 497 by dividing 350 by 0.7033. Basically 350 / 0.7033 = 497.653917247262903455140054031

Bastal would make for an excellent Badass Grandma, still kicking after five centuries and some change.

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@Aftermath of civil war
Entirely conceivable that some long lived grudges remained long after the end of hostilities as Loroi live just as long. But with their quick generations, those wounds may also heal surprisingly quickly.

Lastly I'd also like to point out that what is good might be entirely different to a Loroi. Even within our own species our framework massively shifted between centuries and cultures. The Loroi define themselfes as a created warrior species. The root of that believe is that their reproduction is a basic adaptation for such a species. The prospect of birthing the future Verloren Hoop might even be the moral good for them.
A strong motivation to work against civil war might be nationalism and yes,the believe in Loroi superiority over other species of the actors involved.

Damn, that was wordy.

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The flipside of quick generations is that blood feuds can last many generations. For example, let's take that pirate queen I offhandedly mentioned as part of Bastal's history. Let's suppose that she and her crew captured a few males from their caretakers. Any children born would be family, and so would their children, and so on. The longer it goes on, the tighter the bonds of family and the lower betrayal from within becomes. Anyone who tries to eliminate their piracy basically is trying to eliminate their family, which only entrenches their will to resist as much as possible.

Regarding the loroi as a warrior species, I think a lot of their cultural identity is going to be locked up in why they see themselves that way. For what reason do they fight? There has to be a personal stake in it beyond 'because I'm supposed to'. With us, it can be for Patriotism, for the belief that we're defending others, or any other multifarious reasons. Even people who join the military just to kill things and blow shit up would probably balk at the idea of a civil war, even if only for the fact that they view them as part of an in-group and not an out-group. This isn't to say that they won't fight one if called for it, else civil wars would be impossible from the get go, but there must be something greater for which one fights beyond the mere sake of fighting.

[novius]

New part for Beacons. Took much longer than anticipated, and still it's just setting the stage.

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It's plausible that these two Loroi would try to blow off some steam before the big battle - after all, it could be their last chance to do so. That they had the idea of their unique way to teach him mental discipline was an added bonus.

[novius]

And, a short bit for NF. Of course Nathanial wouldn't let it rest without airing his own grievances.

[Werra]

You're right about the 490 Tozon, Razor. I had completely missed that a Tozon may be 70% of a year but that a year isn't 130% of a Tozon as the base 100% is smaller. Thanks for correcting me. How embarrassing!

@Loroi warrior species
Beryl claims on page 38 that maximum reproductive capacity is something basic for a warrior species. They seem to be culturally well aware that that means producing personel for the war effort.

@Beacons
Alex Lotai should be irrelevant on approach to a boarding action. The Umiak don't have telepathy and ship sensors pick up any object on approach anyway.

@NF
Coral just told Nathan that she was ordered to not shoot him lethally, implying that she would have otherwise.

Also did Nathan really use the fact that he just gave the orders as an excuse after he complained that Coral excused her behaviour with orders she got from somebody else?

[Zarya]

@werra Starting to understand that Coral is the Loroi dick. A listel totally unlike Beryl. Can do nice things with that.

[Werra]

Exactly, a Loroi that's not nice but somehow ends up on the same side offers a lot of possibilities. Same reason I want to keep Nelonial around.

Looking forward to what you cook up.

[novius]

Alex Lotai should be irrelevant on approach to a boarding action. The Umiak don't have telepathy and ship sensors pick up any object on approach anyway.

The Umiak may not have telepathy, but one of their vassal races might have. And it would be a wise idea for the Umiak to have one or two on board to pin down Loroi boarding parties who manages to defeat the initial defense and manage to hide themselves. Of course, whether that is a given or not, the Loroi might be well-advised to assume the Umiak have something like that - especially sice they did start to dabble with defenses against telepaths as it became evident, and the Loroi have no idea whether the defense against their Farseers would be the only windfall of their dealings.

Also did Nathan really use the fact that he just gave the orders as an excuse after he complained that Coral excused her behaviour with orders she got from somebody else?

Um... something slipped by me, where did he issue any orders after he butted heads with Coral?

[Werra]

The Umiak may not have telepathy, but one of their vassal races might have. And it would be a wise idea for the Umiak to have one or two on board to pin down Loroi boarding parties who manages to defeat the initial defense and manage to hide themselves.

On board the situation is different, as we know that the Umiak have at least one telepathically active species on board, the Bedein. Whether a Lotai helps against that is anyones guess. The safe assumption is that the Umiak have cameras and sensors in place to give their defenders positional awareness as well. Hiding should never be an option, really.
A boarding action could work perfectly well in the story, but the requirements for that are a ship too crippled to even founder itself or desperation great enough for a literal suicide mision. So realistically, the Loroi would have all the time in the world to secure the ship and then bring in Alex later or a lot of characters will die.

[W]here did he issue any orders after he butted heads with Coral?

Nathan chewed Coral out on how orders don't free one from responsibility for ones actions. Yet claims that shooting him, who gave the orders to the Arianesin, was unjustified. "Equal force would be to shoot the gun in my hand and not me who wields it."

[dragoongfa]

Remember that Nathan is a teenager, who probably wants to impress his girl(s). Not exactly a sensible person as all men can attest to.

[Razor One]

@Loroi warrior species
Beryl claims on page 38 that maximum reproductive capacity is something basic for a warrior species. They seem to be culturally well aware that that means producing personel for the war effort.

A birthing to fill the ranks is why they might exist, but it wouldn't be the reason that they are warriors. They have to have a personal stake in being warriors, be that honour, the defence of the weak, a belief in their superiority or destiny, or simply a desire for martial prowess. Without a personal stake in the affair, there's no reason to really 'try' to be warrior and the diral would likely wash out for lack of effort.

If the diral is destined to fight out a civil war, and that destiny is in conflict with their desires as warriors, then they must either change their desires to fit their destiny, or change their destiny to fit their desires.

Regarding Beacons:

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Something I kept forgetting to mention, but this would be a boarding action by the Loroi, a telepathic species, on a ship harbouring a telepathic predator. Something tells me that any boarding crew that isn't mentally prepared for such is going to have a very bad day, and that even those that are prepared aren't likely to live for very long.

Given that humanity is purported to have developed a nigh impenetrable lotai to counter the depredations of the Bedein, the sheer evolutionary pressure must have been extreme, which suggests that the Bedein was a highly prolific and deadly predator to anyone with an open mind. Even non-telepaths are likely highly susceptible to its mental attacks.

Regarding the boarding action itself, whatever ship the Bedein is on will likely be highly protected. I'd wager this would be one of the Umiak's ultra-heavies, which being rare, heavily armored and powerful make them ideal for housing high-value personnel. On the other hand, if disabled, the Umiak would be loathe to scuttle such a vessel unless there was no chance of recovery. Thus, any boarding action would have to be a lightning raid, charge in, retrieve the Bedein, charge back out, and do so whilst not having so much of an advantage that the Umiak decide to flip the table.

Another idea popped into my brain as well. Neridi auxiliaries as part of the boarding action. Meeting a few of them in person could be good for the story, and while their insider describes them as merchants, even the most mercantile of societies would have mercenaries to protect the merchandise.

Speaking practically, Neridi would make decent troops. Their shorter stature makes them harder to target, gives them more opportunities for cover, allows them to fit through tighter spaces, and probably gives them reduced life support requirements comparatively, which means longer operation in the field if it comes to that. Couple them up with Loroi and Teidar support and they'd be nightmarish in a boarding action.

[novius]

1000th post in this thread!

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At the moment, the Loroi can reasonably assume that they're up against a telepathic predator with unknown capabilities, save the fact that they can hide whole divisions of ships and possibly have a place in human, and maybe Loroi history.

So sure they are aware that they could very much jump in at the deep end, with added dangers to an already risky undertaking, so taking on some mercs of an especially telepathic insensitive species - maybe they even have some 'housebroken' Mannadi for such a purpose on hand - would be a wise idea. And Alex, while not being in the front line and definitely NOT taking point, could point them towards the right direction... or unwittingly serve as a canary. As in, if he starts to freak out, everyone else may have a few precious seconds before the fecal matter is dispersed by the oscillating air current generator.