Re: [Fan Fiction] The pale horse (Updated: 03/02/2016)
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:14 pm
So, you think that the Humans are some short of good-willing heroes?
Yes, keep believing that...
Yes, keep believing that...
https://well-of-souls.com/forums/
Well it would certainly be more interesting if the Humans were the villains, since now you have a nifty underdog story with the Loroi/Umiak as the protagonists, but the tech balance is so lopsided even that wouldn't really help. Since they can create fleets of AI warships, dyson spheres, and black hole generators, it wouldn't matter if every Outsider race in existence banded together to stop Humanity: they'd still all lose.dragoongfa wrote:So, you think that the Humans are some short of good-willing heroes?
Yes, keep believing that...
I did notice the link, but that brings me back to my other point: why make the Humans be Cthulhu? The canon Soia are perfectly capable of being Cthulhu all on their own.dragoongfa wrote:Its going to be a short story but I am not going to hint the plot any further than this:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... AreCthulhu
I'm not sure if I'm not following you or you aren't following me. Maybe both?dragoongfa wrote:Because what you are presuming is not the point of the story
A construct like what the Historians use would not be to fulfill the duties that Senator Alexander Jardin chose to himself fulfill; for a variety of personal reasons.
True, but that's the trick: Alex doesn't seem scary. He seems arrogant. True, his confidence is quite justified, but by humanizing him you've taken away the fear. Were he an alien (or if we didn't know he was human) it wouldn't be so bad, but because your readers are also human (probably) they will automatically put themselves in Alex's shoes. Cosmic horror is only scary if you are the ant, or if you can sympathize with the ant. When the ant's a jerk who is obviously about to get what's coming to them from the all-powerful superior being, it's boring. When that superior being is a stand-in for the reader? That's a power fantasy.dragoongfa wrote:I understand the point and you partially got what I am going for. Yes the story is about the Loroi and yes one aspect of what I am going for is to humble the Loroi by introducing a monster. I don't believe however that the monster has to be hidden behind a veil for tension, tension can be added by pointing out the complete helplessness of the Loroi hosts when they come face to face with someone far greater than them that constantly shows how far ahead he is with a smile on his face.
In part Alex Jardin plays the horror of the universe at large finally coming to pay a visit, he is open and plain to see for everyone while he subtly hides some small details for his own reasons.
Senator Alex Jardin ain't the protagonist, nor does he serve the purpose of the antagonist; he represents an unstoppable force of the universe at large that is amused by the petty fighting when he knows that something far bigger is at stake and he suspects that universe shaking events are already in motion. I intend to portray humanity as an 'evil' we the readers believe we know about, through events we believe we know how they pan out, only to have the truth of everything come out in the end. The reader believes that they know what is coming (all readers know what Cthulhu is), the Loroi and the Hierarchy don't, to their detriment, but the reader keeps reading even if he knows because they want to see the upstart apes get smacked around by forces that are beyond compare.
That's what I am trying to go here for.
If I have one failing is that I posted the human background now, when it should be posted after the end of the story; that or I should have spoiled it at the very least. I haven't spoiled the key elements of Human intentions but I did betray Humanity's size and what they have already done.
Hmm. If they have telepathic user-interfaces, then that can easily (and almost instantly) lead to post-human intelligence, just by being close enough to the right computer.joestej wrote:Well it would certainly be more interesting if the Humans were the villains, since now you have a nifty underdog story with the Loroi/Umiak as the protagonists, but the tech balance is so lopsided even that wouldn't really help. Since they can create fleets of AI warships,dragoongfa wrote:So, you think that the Humans are some short of good-willing heroes?
Yes, keep believing that...
Works a lot better if the ant doesn't get approached by the giant. Humans are Vorlons or Shadows by this analogy, though both worked better as secretive "also Humans" than as Cthulhu.joestej wrote:"I have just picked [an ant] up on the tip of my glove. If I put it down again, and it asks another ant, "what was that?", how would it explain? There are things in the universe billions of years older than either of our races. They're vast, timeless, and if they're aware of us at all, it is as little more than ants, and we have as much chance of communicating with them as an ant has with us. We know, we've tried, and we've learned that we can either stay out from underfoot or be stepped on."
Well, to be honest, the stereotypical "visiting aliens" thing feels like a power fantasy too, just for the aliens instead of humanity.joestej wrote:I'm not sure if I'm not following you or you aren't following me. Maybe both?dragoongfa wrote:Because what you are presuming is not the point of the story
A construct like what the Historians use would not be to fulfill the duties that Senator Alexander Jardin chose to himself fulfill; for a variety of personal reasons.
Let's try again:
If we didn't know Alex was Human then his character would be a fun puzzle with a dramatic twist. If you made this Humanity so advanced that the Loroi can't even comprehend them, you've got a episode of Star Trek, Babylon 5, or Stargate (all three shows had the 'ultra-advanced guest' problem pop up more than once). But Humanity as you have written it feels more like a power fantasy than an interesting species.
Humans have sent out plenty of missions to study nematodes. These just happen to be more intelligent than normal.joestej wrote:No Cthulhu story is actually about Cthulhu, it's about the pathetic ants around it. Thus, your story should actually be about the Loroi. We don't need to know anything about these Humans, beyond the fact that they are insanely powerful. Knowing that they are a Confederation and that he is a Senator ruins their mystic. Having them actually send a mission to contact the Loroi is even worse, because it makes zero sense. The Loroi have absolutely nothing Humanity wants, so it would be like the UN sending an official delegation to an anonymous jungle tribe.
Eh, dialogue and portrayal improvements would do the trick. The appearance of having rushed through the awkward parts is what's struck me as needing to be fixed so far.joestej wrote:One way or the other, the Humans are what's holding this back. Fix them, you've fixed your story.
That can probably be done, but it requires more subtlty than you're applying. It's coming off as Marty-Stu-ish instead... or to put it another way, it's coming off as preachy. That sort of thing got done in old sci-fi movies a lot, but not because it's a good writing technique: those were pulp sci-fis, with the appropriate level of writing.dragoongfa wrote:I understand the point and you partially got what I am going for. Yes the story is about the Loroi and yes one aspect of what I am going for is to humble the Loroi by introducing a monster. I don't believe however that the monster has to be hidden behind a veil for tension, tension can be added by pointing out the complete helplessness of the Loroi hosts when they come face to face with someone far greater than them that constantly shows how far ahead he is with a smile on his face.
I agree for the 'telling' and the partial 'rushing' but that's going to flip flop from here on out; the human ambassador will not always be present.Absalom wrote:
My thoughts on the writing:
1) Too much "telling", not enough "showing";
2) Rushing too much in to make it work well (plays in with 1 ).
This is intended.
Also, Jardin has seemed too detached from his canon counterpart: Arioch's Jardin probably would have kept more of those cards hidden, or at least played them a little better.
dragoongfa wrote:Chapter 1, part 1
“My shift was about done and the Lashret thought that I should handle this. What am I needed for?” Beruyl replied.
[...]
She followed the Teidar’s mental signature in order to find them at packed the shuttle bay, she half expected for a crowd to had have formed around their little group but the Teidar must have convinced those curious to go back to their jobs. The redhead warrior was standing over the two Doranzers who were kneeling over the armored and unconscious alien.
[...]
“Its face looks like a Loroi’s but it is pinkish… Yes (Yet?) I see some read red or real? blood and… that must be facial hair!” Beryl sent her thoughts without thinking.
[...]
“Yes.” Beryl agreed as she examined the hologram. “This must be some short of emergency system to help a medic, pretty advanced if they managed to fit everything that it needs in a personal armor.”
[...]
“I wonder what this is…” Beryl thought as she reached out towards a small holographic rectangle that just floated above the skeleton, as she was about to touch it the small rectangle expanded into a small holographic screen that turned and floated at half an arm’s length in front of her. “Very advanced… This must be some short of control panel.”
[...]
“This is Pallan Fireblade. The Doranzers need to get the alien the alien to the medical bay and it seems unarmed.” It was one of the few times Beryl heard the Teidar speak, she had a nicely pitched and steady voice that didn’t betray her character at all. “Affirmative. I will stay with them at all times.”
Do you want me to go over the Confederation backstory as well?dragoongfa wrote:Chapter 1, part 2
[...]
“Is the alien healed?” She asked as she observed the naked alien that laid motionless of the regenerator’s bed. It was obviously a male, with blonde hair that were accompanied by relatively short facial hair of the same color; it or he was well muscled when compared to a Loroi warrior and even hard some sparse body hair. It looked uncomfortably like a Loroi male, if not for the height, the body color and the facial and body hair.
[...]
“I have no choisce then, all of you raise your mental defenses; if he doesn’t wake up after I focus on him, he never will.” She warned the others before dropping her mental barriers and concentrating on the alien. She sensed the two Doranzers and the Listels as they overlapped their subconscious mental barriers with conscious ones and couldn’t help but smile when she sensed their realization that they would have to do more to keep her out. Everyone knew that she was a very strong telepath but few ever realized how strong she really was, the three of them and the others who were close enough would now appreciate the effort she put in making sure to control herself. It was true that she never could shut her mind completely off, annoying those that were sensitive about such matters, but such small leaks could never compare with the strength she now let loose. Thankfully the alien obliged her with a response and begun squirming after a few solons.
[...]
“Yes, I can understand you.” Tthe alien replied as he stretched his neck to look at his naked body.
I see that you often start with a capital letter after someone said something. But the sentence continues, therefore it should not be capitalised, except for names and titles... (too keep this short, I will try to refrain from pointing out more of these instances)
“Ah, very good! Are you undamaged? Can you breath acceptably?” Tthe Tozet asked.
[...]