Writing Prompts

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novius
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by novius »

entity2636 wrote:By the way, I just wanted to point out a plot hook that I feel should not be forgotten and should be explored further - the telepathic predator that the umiaks apparently use to generate their lotai field. With the upcoming battle drawing nearer, someone, maybe Tempo, should propose disabling and raiding a umiak ship to capture whatever they are using. That could be quite the meat grinder of an operation with plenty of room for action, drama and revelation.
I am keeping that in mind. And even just planning the operation may put people at odds. On one side, those who opt to keep Alex far away from a pitched, high-risk boarding action, even if it's just for a reason that they don't want to lose a (still) unique asset, on the other side those who think Alex's presence is needed, just because he might have a better idea what they'd be looking for, for starters.

If there aren't any takers, I could write the next part, likely featuring a (rather heated) discussion around that topic as well....

entity2636
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by entity2636 »

Plus, if I was in Alex's place, I'd insist to be part of the boarding operation to both prove my personal loyalty and allegiance in a way the loroi understand and don't question, and to prove/disprove for myself that humans are not (or are? if so, then how, why and to what extent) the cause for all this mess. Most loroi would definitely oppose Alex putting himself in danger which would also be a source for drama and tension.

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Razor One
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by Razor One »

Re: Beacons
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Okay, so we've got the following potential plotlines coming up in the future:

Making up with Tempo
The Siege of Nezel
The Bedein Encounter
The Gunship Arc
I'm Not Your Buddy, Friend (Jardin/Male Encounter)

Making up with Tempo has to happen at this point. Leaving her hanging for too long doesn't feel right with how he's been characterised and it wouldn't feel right for Alex to maintain a grudge given the full contextualisation of just how badly she could have screwed him over. It'd probably have to be the last of the 'quiet' arcs to occur before the following.

The Siege of Nezel and the Bedein Encounter should probably occur in tandem, with the fight for the system and boarding action being executed in sequence. Ideally the climax of both plotlines should dovetail for an exciting double crescendo of action and revelation.

The Gunship Arc should be the next 'quiet' plotline to be executed after the battle of Nezel, assuming it's successful. I'd argue that Alex should probably take a more supportive role in this one, whilst Talon and Spiral take the fore on this. Alex's opinion can be easily dismissed as male, alien, and outsider by the Tenoin clan elders. They can't just as easily dismiss a pair of ace pilots who are set on making the gunship a workable platform. There'd probably be at least a handful of gunships in mothballs from the prototyping and final design stages, so there could potentially be a wargame or live fire test to feel out its viability. Politics and intrigue potentially abound, both internal and external.

Jardin meeting with his opposite number is something that's been on a number of people's minds. Could happen at any time, but I expect their conversation to be interesting and potentially enlightening. Cultural exchange is always as fun to write as it is to read.

Beyond that, I'd suggest the following:

Each character gets an arc where they stand in the spotlight. Alex is arguably the viewpoint character, and I'm not arguing that we change that, but there should be sections of the narrative where the other characters are driving things forward. A few ideas I've had in mind in no particular order:

Barsam Bedtime stories: A discussion of Barsam theology, Alex's feelings thereof, and perhaps some insight as to how humanity in general might react to a few of the troubadour-clerics paying them a visit sometime.

Encounters with various Union members, Arekka, Pol, Neridi, perhaps even the Mannadi, don't really have a plot in mind but one might shake out.

Beryl gets called in by her caste elders to relay and distribute her information about humanity. Comes under some scrutiny and potential fire for perhaps getting too close to her research subject.

Fireblade has to face the last of her internal demons. Perhaps a fellow survivor of the Seren occupation? Another Teidar who challenges her to a duel? Kind of vague on this.

Tempo regaining her honour. Best I could think of was that some shadowy group tries to abduct Alex and Tempo saves his butt by being the glorious lying spook that she's purported to be. Also Jedi. There must be Jedi references. :P

The Long Road: This one's been bouncing in my head, but since New Frontiers is already heavily referenced, perhaps a few or even just one of the lost diral survived to this day? They would be pushing into their old age but it's more than plausible that if any had survived all this time then they'd push for meeting Alex. Probably best to let it sit until New Frontiers is further along though.

Imperial Imperative: Alex and company meeting with the Emperor. Has to happen sooner or later.

Stillstorms Glorious Revenge: Exactly what it says on the tin. Another backburner project, but one that I believe should have Stillstorm planning and then leading and offensive into Shell territory Sunfall style, except better and with a lot more dead shells. Could potentially be a culmination of all the prior arcs, with the gunship program in full swing paying dividends, the Bedein study paying off and so on.

The Journey Home: With the war well in hand, the situation stabilised, Jardin heads home with a delegation of Loroi to formalise diplomatic contact between humanity and the Loroi union. Not necessarily the end of the story if people want to keep writing for it at this point, but potentially the beginning of a whole new set of shenanigans.
RE: New Frontiers
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My shifts have changed, so I technically have more time. Technically. I'll try to see about moving the story forward when I can, unless someone has something ready to contribute in the next day or two.
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This is my Mod voice. If you see this in a thread, it means that the time for gentle reminders has passed.

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Werra
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by Werra »

@Beacons
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Thanks for correcting my perspective, guys. The Loroi still seem a bit lifeless and flat always falling into the same tropes beneficial to humanity, but that can be fixed. I am looking forward to more than the usual three getting involved, as the others contributions have always been very worthwhile.

Making up with Tempo/her honour:
When I wrote that I had no idea what price she might ask. An immoral offer is the most obvious price, but since the data Alex wants is Mizol property, he might be asked to pay for it with data highly interesting to Mizol. [the limits of human Lotai, or what it takes to breach it, for example] As Tempo has lost her honour in the eyes of her fellow Loroi, she'd need to do something good for the Loroi to regain it.

The Siege of Nezel:
It might be possible to turn the Siege into a disaster for the Umiak now that the Lorois natural strengths in defense are restored without the Umiak knowing. But we're all in agreement that Nezel is a no-step-back kind of battle, right?

The Bedein Encounter:
Alex asking to join a boarding party seems very counterproductive, honestly. Seems to me like he'd be more of a hindrance than anything else. He's got no Sanzai, he isn't schooled in infantry or boarding tactics and is at best a talented beginner handling their equipment. He might be a genius, but they can't condense down years of training into a couple of hours. Plus boarding seems like a guaranteed suicide mission, especially with such a high value target on board.

The Gunships:
Right now they don't sound like a good idea. But that might be because everybody just agreed that they're a good idea instead of arguing against it at first. My main concerns are:
1. Getting close to the Umiak sounds horrible. Why not just cycle the fleets weapons one more time for the killshots?
2. They sound very pricy for what they offer. Especially as they need designated tugs instead of general hangar space like fighters.
3. Why would the Loroi be overly concerned with Tenoin losses? They have literally billions of Tenoin and at least millions of them should reach combat readiness each year. Tinza sector fleet before the latest Umiak assault was something like 13 divisions with ~70 ships each. Let's say each ship has 500 crew on average. That means a very rough estimate of active combat personel in the sector would be at 500.000. SG51 might have atrocious attrition rates, but raider duty is the most dangerous duty in the fleet. Loroi birth rates combined with the Listel caste make this a very minor issue from a non human perspective.

I'm not saying Gunships are inefficient or a bad idea. These are just some of the arguments the Loroi could make against their use. Maybe we should brainstorm similar arguments and this plotlines arc is then to address those concerns?

Male encounter:
Do I smell further fanservice? :P As Nezel is a secondary fleet base far behind the normal front, it's very likely that males were on Nezel. Either as entertainers, musicians, gourmet cooks or therapeuts and medical professionals. Some of them, especially the doctors and surgeons might have elected to stay. They aren't slaves and at one in eight not that rare.
@New Frontiers
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Please do, Razor. I'd like to broaden the scope of New Frontiers myself, but...writing Bastal kissing ass is not my strong suit.
@SH
That's a one man show now, if you don't mind. My plan has evolved far enough that writing prompts would do more harm than good. In retrospect, setting up a story with a focus on intrigue and politics with several authors was doomed from the start anyway.

novius
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by novius »

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Werra wrote:Making up with Tempo/her honour:
When I wrote that I had no idea what price she might ask. An immoral offer is the most obvious price, but since the data Alex wants is Mizol property, he might be asked to pay for it with data highly interesting to Mizol. [the limits of human Lotai, or what it takes to breach it, for example] As Tempo has lost her honour in the eyes of her fellow Loroi, she'd need to do something good for the Loroi to regain it.
It's a bit more complicated than that, sure. Tempo felt she lost her honor because of having failed to serve in her role as liaison both to Alex and Stillstorm, allowing the situation to escalate up to the point of the 'Lotai crisis', and indirectly harming Alex by harming those that are important to him, namely Beryl, in addition to having missed very important details - like the order from 'high up' to ship anything or anyone human to Seren - in the Deinar files. That she became pretty much addicted to Alex and experienced the full range of symptoms of cold withdrawal made it only worse. For Alex, it was Duskcrown who put his head right by pointing out the many ways Tempo could have fucked him over and be completely above board with it, and she didn't - when whistleblowing on the Deinar files in front of Stillstorm, he already had a feeling of guilt, throwing someone he considered a friend under the bus, and I'm sure that feeling would return tenfold.

There are pretty large wounds to heal on both sides.
Werra wrote:The Siege of Nezel:
It might be possible to turn the Siege into a disaster for the Umiak now that the Lorois natural strengths in defense are restored without the Umiak knowing. But we're all in agreement that Nezel is a no-step-back kind of battle, right?
Amen to that. Kikitik-27 may be right that the current operation may be the start of the end of the war. Beyond Nezel there is largely undefended space - if the Umiak break through in force, the Union at large would be doomed, and the war turns from defending the territory to saving the own species from extinction. Still, even Duskcrown is realist enough to be aware that they cannot hold Nezel indefinitely. The hope to hold it as long as it's needed to rally the defenses and to do enough damage to the oncoming forces that their further progress would be even more costly.
Werra wrote:The Bedein Encounter:
Alex asking to join a boarding party seems very counterproductive, honestly. Seems to me like he'd be more of a hindrance than anything else. He's got no Sanzai, he isn't schooled in infantry or boarding tactics and is at best a talented beginner handling their equipment. He might be a genius, but they can't condense down years of training into a couple of hours. Plus boarding seems like a guaranteed suicide mission, especially with such a high value target on board.
For Alex it might be a more personal thing, too - facing the own fears and all that. But there will be heated discussions around that. Of course most, yet not all, Loroi would be appalled at the thought of actively bringing a male into a pitched boarding action. Sure, he was provided with basic training, but I guess it was a silent consensus that it was to be an emergency measure and they agreed on keeping him far away from combat action if they could. Of course a mindset like this wouldn't sit quite well with Alex himself. :)
Werra wrote:Why would the Loroi be overly concerned with Tenoin losses? They have literally billions of Tenoin and at least millions of them should reach combat readiness each year. Tinza sector fleet before the latest Umiak assault was something like 13 divisions with ~70 ships each. Let's say each ship has 500 crew on average. That means a very rough estimate of active combat personel in the sector would be at 500.000. SG51 might have atrocious attrition rates, but raider duty is the most dangerous duty in the fleet. Loroi birth rates combined with the Listel caste make this a very minor issue from a non human perspective.
It isn't just numbers. While the warrior academies might churn out new recruits in sufficient numbers, the Loroi face the same problem the Japanese had in WWII - their cadre of experienced and seasoned officers gets gradually whittled down with every command ship they lose, and is replaced by green youngsters. It is the loss of battle experience which is the most serious issue, especially since the Loroi already start out with a considerable generation gap between the prewar generation and the warborn. And if it devolves into a numbers game, the Loroi would lose, especially with the Umiak being insects by nature.
Werra wrote:Male encounter:
Do I smell further fanservice? :P
Errr.... no :) At least not from me. Perhaps the wording was a bit off since 'Male encounter' already has a specific connotation in Outsiderverse. For clarity, let's relabel it as 'meeting his counterparts'? :)
Werra wrote:@SH
That's a one man show now, if you don't mind. My plan has evolved far enough that writing prompts would do more harm than good. In retrospect, setting up a story with a focus on intrigue and politics with several authors was doomed from the start anyway.
I started to think along the same lines. We could still provide some byplays, though, but for that we'd need a clearer picture at first of what is slated to be important/having lasting effects and thus better keeping our hands off of it.

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Zarya
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by Zarya »

Werra wrote:
@New Frontiers
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Please do, Razor. I'd like to broaden the scope of New Frontiers myself, but...writing Bastal kissing ass is not my strong suit.
I'd look forward to..
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..Bastal kicking ass, rather than kissing them, but also feel she'd be a two-dimensional character if she'd only play the meanest Mizol on Deinar without forming somekind of natural relationship with the characters that could be of tremendous value to her. Of course she could play a Frank Underwood, but not without awakening powerful pushback from the diral on which she hasn't got a tight grip yet. To me it's also hard to believe that she insists on keeping her blundering sidekick Nelonial in the game. Potentially this is a soure of conflict too.

Question is, do we need internal conflict between Bastal and the diral, or do we create it elsewhere with other antagonists...

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dragoongfa
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by dragoongfa »

@Werra:
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The Gunships:
Right now they don't sound like a good idea. But that might be because everybody just agreed that they're a good idea instead of arguing against it at first. My main concerns are:
1. Getting close to the Umiak sounds horrible. Why not just cycle the fleets weapons one more time for the killshots?
2. They sound very pricy for what they offer. Especially as they need designated tugs instead of general hangar space like fighters.
3. Why would the Loroi be overly concerned with Tenoin losses? They have literally billions of Tenoin and at least millions of them should reach combat readiness each year. Tinza sector fleet before the latest Umiak assault was something like 13 divisions with ~70 ships each. Let's say each ship has 500 crew on average. That means a very rough estimate of active combat personel in the sector would be at 500.000. SG51 might have atrocious attrition rates, but raider duty is the most dangerous duty in the fleet. Loroi birth rates combined with the Listel caste make this a very minor issue from a non human perspective.
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1: Define close; the gunships are fast, maneuverable and inexpensive weapon platforms. Their main weapons are strong enough to cripple and even destroy larger warships and depending on their torpedo load out they can even threaten major combatants. They don't need to get danger close to the enemy to do their full damage potential while their speed and maneuverability would ensure that they would always have the initiative in engagements.

2: They are definitely more expensive than fighters but they are not half as pricey as full jump capable warships with the same capabilities (due to not having to be jump capable, having less crew and by being far more austere in amenities). As for tugs, the ability to tow something in space isn't expensive; any ship can do it with negligible modifications; drawing the extra mass around would be the biggest concern but since the gunboats are loose when in battle then the only downside is the small amount of extra time it would take to accelerate to cruising speed when in transit between systems.

3: The Japanese and the Germans in WW2, as well as the Soviets in their early war would like to point out that having an overabundance of pilot bodies isn't the same as having capable and reliable pilots. High attrition loses in a military branch ensure a decline in effective capabilities in said branch, the USAAF thrived by rotating their pilots off the front in order to safeguard their hard earned experience so they could train more pilots and afterwards lead them as officers. Due to this policy the US aces have no top scorers in the list about WW2 aces but they dominate the mass of 5 to 20 kill rankings. Keeping the pilots alive and ensuring the survival of their expertise is what gives a widespread quality edge over the opposition.

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Werra
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by Werra »

dragoongfa wrote:
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1: Define close; the gunships are fast, maneuverable and inexpensive weapon platforms. Their main weapons are strong enough to cripple and even destroy larger warships and depending on their torpedo load out they can even threaten major combatants. They don't need to get danger close to the enemy to do their full damage potential while their speed and maneuverability would ensure that they would always have the initiative in engagements.

2: They are definitely more expensive than fighters but they are not half as pricey as full jump capable warships with the same capabilities (due to not having to be jump capable, having less crew and by being far more austere in amenities). As for tugs, the ability to tow something in space isn't expensive; any ship can do it with negligible modifications; drawing the extra mass around would be the biggest concern but since the gunboats are loose when in battle then the only downside is the small amount of extra time it would take to accelerate to cruising speed when in transit between systems.

3: The Japanese and the Germans in WW2, as well as the Soviets in their early war would like to point out that having an overabundance of pilot bodies isn't the same as having capable and reliable pilots. High attrition loses in a military branch ensure a decline in effective capabilities in said branch, the USAAF thrived by rotating their pilots off the front in order to safeguard their hard earned experience so they could train more pilots and afterwards lead them as officers. Due to this policy the US aces have no top scorers in the list about WW2 aces but they dominate the mass of 5 to 20 kill rankings. Keeping the pilots alive and ensuring the survival of their expertise is what gives a widespread quality edge over the opposition.
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Nr.1
I might have misunderstood then. But if gunships are not getting close, then what difference does it make if say the torpedoes are shot from a normal destroyer? The Loroi as a whole do already have the initiative as their ships are faster. And don't even the fastest ships need to stick in formation with the slowest?

Nr.2
If it were just a tug hardpoint you would be right. But those gunships need to be refueled, rearmed and need ways to get the crew on and off board. That means the crew of a gunship needs amenities on board their carrier ship as well as facilities and supplies for the gunship itself. Isn't a specialised ship or extensive refits a necessity to deploy gunships then? They must be a lot more efficient than fighters which can be stowed into any hangar with little fuss. And a lot more efficient than destroyers, which can do a lot of that as well as jump on their own.

Take this as me being an advocatus diaboli please. These are issues I believe the Loroi would raise as well

Nr.3
See, this is exactly what I mean. The Loroi are faced with a situation similar to what humans faced in our wars. But the Loroi have a different culture, biology and society. So instead of just copying the human solution, the next step for us needs to be to work out how Loroi would deal with it. To give the Loroi their own culture and demonstrate the differences between the species.
For example what do telepathy and the Listel caste change in the equation?
@NF
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I would love to be the one to write the meeting between Coral and Nathan.

silentstormpt
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by silentstormpt »

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Just an example of the type of gunship you looking for imo: http://homeworld.wikia.com/wiki/Pulsar_Gunship
Been following pretty much every fan works you guys posted, thanks for making them guys!

entity2636
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by entity2636 »

Werra wrote:
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Nr.2
If it were just a tug hardpoint you would be right. But those gunships need to be refueled, rearmed and need ways to get the crew on and off board. That means the crew of a gunship needs amenities on board their carrier ship as well as facilities and supplies for the gunship itself. Isn't a specialised ship or extensive refits a necessity to deploy gunships then? They must be a lot more efficient than fighters which can be stowed into any hangar with little fuss. And a lot more efficient than destroyers, which can do a lot of that as well as jump on their own.
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That's where carriers would come in, which in the current state of the war and loroi doctrine are just sitting somewhere in dry docks and being useless. A Catapult-class carrier has room for 40 starfighters and 4 shuttles (which feels like very little, given the carrier's 500-metre length and 1100-man crew). It should have enough room to store about 8 to 10 of these gunboats and provide jump capability, service facilities and free the cruisers and battleships from having to tow gunboats through hyperspace. Not saying it's an optimal solution, but it could be a temporary short term one, good enough for shakedowns, exercises and an engagement or two for the brass and tacticians to evaluate the concept

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dragoongfa
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by dragoongfa »

Werra wrote:
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Nr.1
I might have misunderstood then. But if gunships are not getting close, then what difference does it make if say the torpedoes are shot from a normal destroyer? The Loroi as a whole do already have the initiative as their ships are faster. And don't even the fastest ships need to stick in formation with the slowest?

Nr.2
If it were just a tug hardpoint you would be right. But those gunships need to be refueled, rearmed and need ways to get the crew on and off board. That means the crew of a gunship needs amenities on board their carrier ship as well as facilities and supplies for the gunship itself. Isn't a specialised ship or extensive refits a necessity to deploy gunships then? They must be a lot more efficient than fighters which can be stowed into any hangar with little fuss. And a lot more efficient than destroyers, which can do a lot of that as well as jump on their own.

Take this as me being an advocatus diaboli please. These are issues I believe the Loroi would raise as well

Nr.3
See, this is exactly what I mean. The Loroi are faced with a situation similar to what humans faced in our wars. But the Loroi have a different culture, biology and society. So instead of just copying the human solution, the next step for us needs to be to work out how Loroi would deal with it. To give the Loroi their own culture and demonstrate the differences between the species.
For example what do telepathy and the Listel caste change in the equation?
SpoilerShow
1) The difference lies primarily with the angles of attack, the attack tactics and the ability to be a tangible threat in being outside of reach. The gunboat is far faster and far more maneuverable than a destroyer with comparable firepower. This allows it to dart in and out of action quicker, fulfill the skirmisher role without comparable opposition and allow a squadron of them to harass the enemy with enough firepower to give them pause. To give a comparison, if the fleet acts like a sword then the gunboat can act both like a buckler and a dagger; blunting the Umiak torpedo and gunboat assault and have enough mobility and firepower to pursue and destroy damaged ships. It all comes down to the tactics used, the Umiak use the gunboat in a disposable skirmisher role, sent alongside their torpedo barrage to disorganize the defensive line; the Loroi on the other hand were experimenting with the gunboat taking solely a point defense role, leashing them to the battle line and not allowing them to fill the fast, cheap and dangerous weapons platform role that they could be fulfilling.

2) Refueling and rearming them would push the logistics side but the return in projected firepower and abilities should be worth it. Otherwise obsolete ships could be used as gunboat tenders to prove the concept before the introduction of a fast fleet auxiliary tanker/transport ship to tag along with a battle group. Crew amenities is me saying that the gunboat is austere in crew comfort; the comparison is between the Loroi warships and a modern submarine in terms of space and general amenities. It should be possible for the crew to live aboard the gunboat for an extended amount of time without issue. This could be easily used for wolfpack harassment tactics after an enemy breakthrough, park a squadron of gunboats with a freighter tender behind a rock and wait for an enemy resupply convoy to make an appearance. The only solution is to dedicate considerable fleet power to escort the convoys and to hunt down the gunboat hiding holes; both of which are valid investments in a breakthrough scenario where you need to slow the enemy down to build your defensive lines and prepare a counter attack.

3) The Listel and telepathy don't pass along personal experience, from my understanding both work much like textbooks; one can learn plenty from having the knowledge be imparted on them but they only way to truly attain their abilities is to have hands on experience. If telepathy was so overpowered to pass on the skill sets of veterans then every Loroi captain would be a Stillstorm copy, every mechanic would be a shipwright and every pilot would be an Ace of Aces from the moment they went through their training. Hard biology still applies and maintaining the hard earned skillsets of veterans should be a priority.

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Zarya
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by Zarya »

Werra wrote: @NF
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I would love to be the one to write the meeting between Coral and Nathan.
Go for it :mrgreen:

novius
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by novius »

Despite what the Loroi may think of themselves, I have to agree with that one poster whose name I cannot remember that they are more suited to be a police force, maybe the galactic scale of a SWAT team when it comes up to that. They're raised quickly, and well suited for recon and deescalation with their telepathy, and well versed in small unit tactics, but they have shown - and slowly become aware of this themselves - their inflexibility when it concerns the changing demands of protracted warfare. The Enemy learns from its mistakes and develops countermeasures for tools and strategies the Loroi employed, like the Farseers, and if the Loroi continue to pass on old knowledge verbatim - like copying it from veteran to new recruit - they would fail to adapt and start losing.

And remember, by design they might not even be supposed to learn and grow from themselves, but be dependent on what they've been handed down from their Soia masters. They were created with a specific purpose in mind, after all.

Problem is, groupthink may not just be a human fallacy. There may be bright individuals, but board meetings and politics regularly show that people in a group get stupider in proportion to the group size. The Loroi need to find new solutions, and fast. When time is the biggest issue, the most promising strategy would be to copy and adapt what has been proven to work and think about own solutions later.

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Werra
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by Werra »

But the Loroi did quickly adapt to their enemy. That's where the raider doctrine is coming from. They also developed and rapidly fielded new technologies. The pulse cannon needed three years to arrive in force. That's very fast.

Apart from telepathy, their quick maturation is their biggest advantage. Couple it with telepathy and the Loroi get their young from cradle to grave space fighter in 12 years. Tenoin have about four years after their Diral to learn everything they need to know.

Humanity, on the same level in production, population and technology as the Loroi pre-war would have lost already.

The Loroi might be slow to develop new technologies on their own without outside stimuli, but that's because their caste system isolates specialists from each other.

My opinion is that the Loroi are wasting much of their unique talents. What's Fireblade doing on Tempest that can't be done by a Soroin? Chiefs of Security on warships don't need to fend off tanks very often. She and many Teidar would be better off as Gallen, honestly. The Loroi need only dedicated infantry and boarding specialists in this war.
Another waste is how Listel function. They're perfect tools to overcome the drawbacks of the caste system. Include Listel into every caste and have them rotate regularly, dispensing their knowledge at every step. Such village bicycles would also lessen the problems of system separation in Outsider on free e change of knowledge.

Who told you that Loroi make good deescalators? Their telepathy makes them xenophobes and hard to communicate with.

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dragoongfa
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by dragoongfa »

A police/internal security force isn't a de-escalation tool, it's an enforcement tool. They police, they enforce the laws and bring in law breakers to face judgement; a cuddly and overly polite police officer is either a failure or someone who polices an area where the only law breaking are young children pulling pranks.

EDIT: I think that novius meant de-escalation in the sense of surgical strikes to decapitate insurgent and criminal leaderships. Cut off the head and the body dies and all that.

novius
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by novius »

Pretty much. They're more suited for quick and pinpoint actions, and they may have instinctively chosen this modus operandi with focusing on raider/hit-and-run strikes, in addition to being forced into that by having lost much of their heavier vessels during the Umiak incursions at the start of the war.

But, as said, now they are forced into a defensive position by the Umiak, and this is something the Loroi are ill-equipped for.

In fact, they actually failed to realize that the Umiak must have been on war footing for quite some time even before the actual shooting started. The Mizol for example might be well-equipped to root out insurgents or non-conformists, but they must have failed to discern the larger political, economical and societal movements inside the Hierarchy and its vassal states.

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Werra
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Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:27 pm

Re: Writing Prompts

Post by Werra »

@dragoongfa
Remind me to never jaywalk in Greece.

@novius
Except that's wrong. The Loroi are supremely efficient at a defensive war. The whole Farseer business and all..
It's been pointed out multiple times in the Insider and by Arioch and will be referenced in the comic how tenacious Loroi are in defense.

I agree that the Loroi were blindsided by the Umiak surprise assault, but their shortcoming was having grown complacent and lacking paranoia.
Both sides tightly controlled border systems and trade. So with the nature of apace travel in Outsider, getting Intel on the interior of the enemy is very difficult.

All that's needed to hide a fleet of any size is to station it a system further away.

I can give you loads of examples of the Loroi adapting in this very war.

Have you guys never wondered why the Umiak, with the superior industrial capacity are running constant assaults against the Loroi? Time should be on their side as the longer they sit back, the more pronounced their material advantage becomes.
Why did they force the Historians into the war to flank Seren?

Warringrose
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:32 pm

Re: Writing Prompts

Post by Warringrose »

Why did they force the Historians into the war to flank Seren?
I thought it was because the Historians are secretly the most powerful and dangerous race in the galaxy and were pretending to be weak to fool everyone else into ignoring them so they could continue manipulating everyone behind the scenes. I think the Historians were so good at playing the weakling that they fooled the Umiak into actually thinking them weak enough to safely ignore and attack at their whim. A true hoist with his own petard moment.

I also think they gave the Umiak their plasma weapons.

And started the war between the Loroi and Umiak.

...and I'll just leave this link here for examples of what advanced star faring nations can do to low tech, planet bound stone to industrial age nations, which I think is what the Historians have been doing all along: https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Pre-FTL_species. For maximum effect, listen to this while you read it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRWbIoIR04c

entity2636
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:53 am

Re: Writing Prompts

Post by entity2636 »

Werra - obviously to keep pressure on the Union and not give them room to breathe. To keep them occupied with fending off constant raids, to keep their numbers and fleet strength down and to keep their attention focused on the Steppes front, while the Umiaks build up on materiel, develop plans of attack and possibly run operations in other areas we and the Union are not aware of.

The Loroi are too arrogant for their own good. They were unprepared for a war with the Umiaks, they were unprepared to fight a defensive war and when the tide changed, they got too confident of their invincibility that they ran head first into a kettle.

The war, in broad strokes, started with the Umiak provoking the Loroi in that border conflict (I'll roll with Tempo's version until we have a better one) and starting a Blitzkrieg that the Union was unable to stop on their own. The Umiaks also attacked the Historians and pushed them back considerably, until the Historians entered a treaty with the Union - weapons tech for military assistance. That is how the Union managed to stop the Umiak advance, push them out of Historian space and retake Seren, but then the Loroi got over confident again and ran into an ambush. The Hierarchy now has the advantage with keeping constant pressure on the Union, forcing the Union into a never ending game of whack-a-raid and not giving them the chance to build their forces back up while their own industrial might allows them both throw-away resources for the raids, as well as resources to build up for another Blitzkrieg, the one which we are looking at now.

@Warringrose - yes, that's a popular conspiracy theory, too bad it may take some 20+ RL years to confirm or disprove :roll:

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Werra
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Re: Writing Prompts

Post by Werra »

The need to keep the pressure on the enemy implies that enemy is dangerous if left alone. To keep the initiative the Uniak had to sacrifice a lot of their ships in a tactical position that played to all the strengths of the Loroi. You don't send out your forces through heavy harassment onto defensive lines that can perfectly predict where you hit, therefore negating the localised superiority any attacker aims for. Not unless you have a very compelling reason.

To me it seems the Umiak urgently want to end the war quickly. Why, we can't say. Might be anything from their mode of warfare being unsustainable, to Loroi building up forces effectively quicker than them, to a third party pressuring the Hierarchy.

If the Umiak truly aim to take on the Historians next for their war profiteering, drawing them into the war early still doesn't make much sense.

It would make sense if the Umiak had expected the Loroi to break after losing their capitol world of Seren. But they didn't. Just as they fought on after getting completely blindsided by a full scale invasion and losing a lot of war assets. Even complacent and arrogant -full agreement here- with a military that hadn't seen a real conflict for centuries, the Loroi held in a horrible situation.

We don't know a lot about the Umiak, as the Insider is mostly written with the Loroi level of information in mind. But I wouldn't be surprised if the war wasn't as desperate for the Loroi as it seems to be.

All I'm saying is, that the Loroi are clearly very capable in defense.
SpoilerShow
The Alterans caused the Soias downfall and now are active again.

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