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Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread 
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Got a question about Loroi military procedure. It didn't occur to me earlier when our Fearsome Foursome departed the Tempest so I'm asking it here.

Is it normal for Loroi to send important people or strategically important assets across dubious star systems during wartime in lone defenseless shuttle craft, like our team traveling across Leido in the Captain's yacht without a starfighter escort?

In my opinion, a Mizol Colonel and reasonably high ranking Listel science officer, especially if they are traveling together, would be considered quite important people just by themselves due to everything they might know, not even taking into account that they are accompanying an alien representative and the shuttle possibly also carries alien artifacts and intel.

Would the Empress, a regional governor or an Admiral get an escort when traveling in a shuttle from her planetside residence to her ship, or, say, when going planetside for a ribbon cutting ceremony or something or, say, to another allied ship for a meeting or inspection?

Granted, one could wave it off to the Loroi farseer not seeing any hostiles in Leido, the system being considered safe Loroi territory, or two starfighters being useless against an invading Umiak battle group, etc., but it still looks either like procedural idiocy, Loroi arrogance or carelessness because sh!t can happen to important people even in completely "safe" places and there are bound to be all sorts of crazies, terrorists, pirates or enemy agents out there.


Sat May 12, 2018 1:59 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
They're behind friendly lines. Leido is an uninhabited but fairly well-controlled system with significant military infrastructure; for what should be obvious reasons, each of the jump points is monitored, and any unidentified craft in the system would be challenged. There are no terrorists, pirates or enemy agents at hand. No one in the system outside of the Tempest has any knowledge of what's being transported on board the shuttle. There was no intelligence that suggested the possibility that there might be enemy forces in the system. SG51 was preparing to return to action; any interceptors sent with the shuttle would not have been able to return to SG51 before they jumped. And, well... let's just say that Tempo and Stillstorm are not the very best of friends, and that concern for Alex's safety is not likely to keep Stillstorm awake at night.

If there are no known threats, how do you measure what kind of protection is needed? Even if Highland-7 had been given a fighter escort, I'm not really sure what a few interceptors would be able to do against two Umiak divisions.

If a well-known public figure is traveling in an inhabited system to a well-publicized event, then naturally there is going to need to be some kind of security.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
hi hi

To be fair, Alex does have a pretty significant escort in the form of Fireblade and company. Should some random Loroi be overcome with paranoid rage at the sight of Alex, Fireblade is probably going to be able to handle them.


Sat May 12, 2018 4:07 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
I mostly agree with your reasoning, but just as a precaution I in Stillstorm's place would have given the Highland at least two to four starfighters as escort, just to be sure they reach their destination in one piece or at least force anyone with bright ideas to think twice. It would also signal the Clearbrook that the shuttle is important, but may also attract unwanted attention, it all depends.

I did get the impression that Stillstorm was expecting her Captain's yacht back from the Clearbrook with replacement pilots to take Talon and Spiral's place, so it wouldn't damage her schedule to wait also for the fighters to return. If that is not the case and I was in a hurry, I'd ask for escort fighters from one of the starbases or boarder guard posts. I understand very well that Stillstorm doesn't like Tempo much and it's kind of logical, I mean who in their sane mind likes spies and intel people, but still an Intelligence Colonel is a very important war asset even if she silently wishes Tempo to have a freak accident.

I would argue, that onboard the Tempest almost everyone knows who and what are on board the shuttle with the exception of maybe the rank and file greenshirts, same would apply to the other ships in the battle group and possibly also the crews of the supply convoy. The way Loroi telepathy works and *khem* women being women, regardless of what race or species, I find it hard to believe they haven't spread the news around to pretty much everyone. Plus there are also third parties within the Union that know about the Bellarmine incident and that Alex is being transported to Seren onboard the Tempest.

As to what a couple of starfighters could do to protect the shuttle - not much when faced with two Umiak divisions, but enough against a reasonable enemy/opportunist/psycho force, say, another starfighter, a boarder guard vessel or even a frigate. Forces that one should be expecting even in "friendly" systems. Or the Loroi have a lot to learn from the primitive Terrans :D

Icekatze - I really do not believe Fireblade and her marines are there to protect Alex from other paranoid Loroi. Alex is their prisoner, guilty until proven otherwise, and they are his convoy.


Sun May 13, 2018 11:57 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
hi hi

entity2636 wrote:
...at least force anyone with bright ideas to think twice.
Who would be getting bright ideas? If the Loroi are to the point where their own warships are firing on each other, then they've got bigger problems than worrying about the lone alien ambassador.

entity2636 wrote:
The way Loroi telepathy works and *khem* women being women...
Telepathy doesn't work over long distances. If Stillstorm ordered radio silence on the subject, then it is entirely possible that the information is limited to Strike Group 51, and possibly wild, unfounded rumors being circulated by a Barsam agent. (Also, human women talk less than human men in professional settings, so I don't know how that supports the conclusion.)

entity2636 wrote:
even if she silently wishes Tempo to have a freak accident
I'm not sure she can keep that thought silent, even if it is on her mind, given the way telepathy and Tempo operate.

entity2636 wrote:
I really do not believe Fireblade and her marines are there to protect Alex from other paranoid Loroi.
They're certainly not only there for his protection, but unless Beryl is an excellent liar, they are there for his protection. Fireblade and Reed certainly aren't geared up in heavy combat gear because they're concerned about the unarmed human overpowering them. Especially not Fireblade, who is confident enough to guard him without a sidearm.


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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
icekatze wrote:
(Also, human women talk less than human men in professional settings, so I don't know how that supports the conclusion.)

I don't know what professional settings you've been in, but that certainly hasn't been my experience, lol. :lol: Quite the opposite, in fact.

icekatze wrote:
I'm not sure she can keep that thought silent, even if it is on her mind, given the way telepathy and Tempo operate.

Assuming Stillstorm wants to keep that thought silent. If she hates Tempo to that degree, I don't see her particularly caring if Tempo knows it.


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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
icekatze wrote:
Who would be getting bright ideas? If the Loroi are to the point where their own warships are firing on each other, then they've got bigger problems than worrying about the lone alien ambassador.


Their morale is kind of crap as seen on Page 131. They as a species are also arrogant, elitist and extremely conservative. Combine that with their aggressiveness and you suddenly have a bunch of people prone to getting "bright ideas". Then there's also the Neridi in this system and possible other Union members.

icekatze wrote:
Telepathy doesn't work over long distances. If Stillstorm ordered radio silence on the subject, then it is entirely possible that the information is limited to Strike Group 51, and possibly wild, unfounded rumors being circulated by a Barsam agent.


There's plenty of people in SG51 plus how many more are on the supply convoy. And from there the sky's the limit. It's going to spread like wildfire and get distorted along the way. I don't see how you can keep a lid on something like this. A Russian proverb says "Скорость стука опережает скорость звука" - the speed of rumors spreading/selling someone out exceeds the speed of sound, especially true with sanzai.


icekatze wrote:
entity2636 wrote:
even if she silently wishes Tempo to have a freak accident

I'm not sure she can keep that thought silent, even if it is on her mind, given the way telepathy and Tempo operate.


orion1836 wrote:
Assuming Stillstorm wants to keep that thought silent. If she hates Tempo to that degree, I don't see her particularly caring if Tempo knows it.


I meant that as an exaggeration for why the Intelligence Colonel would still be a valuable strategic asset, regardless of what Stillstorm's personal opinion of her are. In truth, since Tempo holds Admiralty level clearance, if she caught wind of Stillstorm honestly wishing her harm either directly or through negligence, she could have her at least relieved from duty or executed for treason NKVD style.


Mon May 14, 2018 2:28 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
hi hi

entity2636 wrote:
you suddenly have a bunch of people prone to getting "bright ideas".
There's a big difference between a hot-blooded brawl involving the rank and file, and a calculated attack by the captain of an entire vessel and the crew going along with it. The first is probably a relatively common occurrence, and possibly part of the reason why the brig exists. The second is the opening move in a civil war.

entity2636 wrote:
I don't see how you can keep a lid on something like this.
If Stillstorm wanted to, she could almost certainly use a protocol to limit the face to face interaction between her own crew and resupply personnel. Ordinance and supplies are being transferred through the vacuum of space, they don't need to physically hand it to each other. And they're not Russian. Furthermore, many of the Loroi on the Tempest think that Alex is still an Umiak spy, so there's every possibility that the rumor being spread is not about a human, but about the unexpected tricks that the Umiak employed.

It certainly might be the case that everyone knows about Alex, but it is not a given.

entity2636 wrote:
...if she caught wind of Stillstorm honestly wishing her harm either directly or through negligence, she could have her at least relieved from duty or executed for treason...
Earlier in this thread we had a discussion about this very thing happening, around page 127. You participated in it. Long story short though, given the nature of Loroi telepathy, silently wishing for something is not really a thing that Stillstorm is in a position to do. Stillstorm in particular being a exemplar of Loroi honesty, is going to let Tempo know exactly how she feels. If Stillstorm wishes that Tempo would get accidentally sucked out an airlock, then Tempo almost certainly knows it, and she also knows that Stillstorm is not actually planning to kill her. If Stillstorm was actually planning on moving against Tempo, she would have already done so.


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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
icekatze wrote:
Earlier in this thread we had a discussion about this very thing happening, around page 127. You participated in it. Long story short though, given the nature of Loroi telepathy, silently wishing for something is not really a thing that Stillstorm is in a position to do. Stillstorm in particular being a exemplar of Loroi honesty, is going to let Tempo know exactly how she feels. If Stillstorm wishes that Tempo would get accidentally sucked out an airlock, then Tempo almost certainly knows it, and she also knows that Stillstorm is not actually planning to kill her. If Stillstorm was actually planning on moving against Tempo, she would have already done so.


Yes. Let's be clear on something. This somehow degraded into the wrong direction. First, I did not say or imply, that Stillstorm is planning to kill Tempo or vice versa. They do not like each other on more than professional levels, but that is normal since one is a soldier, the other - a spy. Second, I believe Admiral Stillstorm to be a capable officer, not perfect but skilled and experienced, one for whom duty and the mission comes first, protocol second and third, everything else after that.

I was talking about whether Tempo's rank and the knowledge she possesses would make her important enough from to be provided a starfighter escort while traveling across the system on a shuttle, you know, just in case, as standard practice. I would say that yes, Tempo should be considered important enough, regardless of what the Admiral's personal opinion of her was, or even if, hypothetically, the Admiral was to silently wish Tempo were to disappear for good.

I meant that as an exaggerated example for Rules are Rules and procedure must be followed, regardless of what you think of the other person, and not meaning to say that Stillstorm actually does think or wish for something bad to happen to Tempo.

*Edit*
And by the way, I did also write somewhere here that so far I kind of like Tempo and would not want something bad to happen to her ;)


Mon May 14, 2018 1:12 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Are translated double-letter words pronounced differently than if they had single letters? We are reading a contemporary English "translation" of Trade in the Loroi dialect, so I am not sure what the purpose of these seemingly extra letters are. Is "Naam" pronounced differently than "Nam" or "Nahm"? Is "Enedd" pronounced differently than "Ened"? Is the "D" said twice (sort of like r - or rr - in Spanish)?

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Wed May 16, 2018 6:31 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
How about a couple of rather technical questions?

What does happen if a unlucky deep-jumping ship is about to re-enter realspace, but it will be inside of a rocky planet? Insider says it will be a high-energy collision from withhin but what does that mean in particular. Will the ship's mass and energy of the collision stay in this dimension (and inside of the planet) or be "reflected" back into the hyperspace portal? Or will the ship fuse into the planet Philadelphia experiment-style?


Another one, if we have the floater drive that can "increase" the mass of the ejected propellant, can this or a similar technology decrease the mass of an object instead? Maybe even nullify it?

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
cacambo43 wrote:
Are translated double-letter words pronounced differently than if they had single letters? We are reading a contemporary English "translation" of Trade in the Loroi dialect, so I am not sure what the purpose of these seemingly extra letters are. Is "Naam" pronounced differently than "Nam" or "Nahm"? Is "Enedd" pronounced differently than "Ened"? Is the "D" said twice (sort of like r - or rr - in Spanish)?


Not sure, but I can try to tell you how I pronounce it.

I would pronounce the double-A's in 'Naam' as a long but hard A, not like in 'Nahm', which would sound "softer" I guess. Since in my native language each letter represents a distinct, discrete sound similar to how it's in Latin (no "spell like this, pronounce like that" thing as in English or French, for example), that's how I would instinctively pronounce a foreign language word I haven't heard before.

In 'Enedd' the double-D would mean an emphasis on the D.


Wed May 16, 2018 8:38 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
hi hi

Cthulhu wrote:
Insider says it will be a high-energy collision from withhin but what does that mean in particular.
I can't give a definitive answer, but keep in mind that jumping ships have momentum coming out of a jump that is proportional to their velocity going into it. I would expect that, on top of the explosive energy released from a portion of the atoms fusing together, a sudden impact at maybe 1% of the speed of light would create a reasonably big boom.


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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
wasp609 wrote:
First do loroi wear make up.

There have been times and places in which it has been considered fashionable for certain segments of the population to wear makeup. In archaic times, some tribal cultures donned warpaint or body paint; some throwback cultures continue this to the present day, and some individuals still bear markings reminiscent of such practices (like Talon & Spiral's face markings). In the classical period, some sub-cultures wore heavy makeup (this would be analogous to the practice in feudal Japan for members of the court, both male and female, to wear white makeup and blacken their teeth). In more modern times, some individuals wore cosmetics to satisfy their own vanity. In the present day, wearing makeup is not in style, at least not among the warrior class.


Hi, I am new to the forum. I was wondering if the face markings have any meaning? I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere, just point in the right direction please.


Wed May 16, 2018 10:17 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
cacambo43 wrote:
Are translated double-letter words pronounced differently than if they had single letters? We are reading a contemporary English "translation" of Trade in the Loroi dialect, so I am not sure what the purpose of these seemingly extra letters are. Is "Naam" pronounced differently than "Nam" or "Nahm"? Is "Enedd" pronounced differently than "Ened"? Is the "D" said twice (sort of like r - or rr - in Spanish)?

They indicate emphasis. Double vowels indicate a long vowel (it's pronounced with the same tone, but it is vocalized longer and there is an emphasis on the syllable). Double consonants are "hard"; again it's a change in emphasis, though it's more subtle. Like the difference in pronunciation between "Bret" and "Brett," or in Japanese between "doko" and "mokkori."

Also, "Ened" would have the emphasis on the first syllable (EN-ed), whereas "Enedd" has the emphasis on the second syllable (e-NED).

Cthulhu wrote:
What does happen if a unlucky deep-jumping ship is about to re-enter realspace, but it will be inside of a rocky planet? Insider says it will be a high-energy collision from withhin but what does that mean in particular. Will the ship's mass and energy of the collision stay in this dimension (and inside of the planet) or be "reflected" back into the hyperspace portal? Or will the ship fuse into the planet Philadelphia experiment-style?

It's a collision of matter in normal space; once back in normal space, the matter/energy doesn't leave normal space again. Because momentum is retained, this is a very energetic high-velocity collision; an impact at ~3,000 km/s will heat matter to fusion temperatures, and so the jumping object is violently destroyed, though the core of the planet or star that is hit is unlikely to be significantly affected.

Cthulhu wrote:
Another one, if we have the floater drive that can "increase" the mass of the ejected propellant, can this or a similar technology decrease the mass of an object instead? Maybe even nullify it?

Yes, that's more or less what inertial dampers do, though they decrease inertia rather than mass. The Umiak plastron field is their counterpart to the floater drive, and it works on the reverse principle, decreasing the inertia of the entire vessel rather than increasing the inertia of the propellant; this also has the added advantage of reducing the effect of kinetic hits to the hull.

gwventura wrote:
I was wondering if the face markings have any meaning? I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere, just point in the right direction please.

It's a ritual symbol of the childhood training band that Talon and Spiral were in together. It's analogous to the unit-specific tattoos that some military people get.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
Double vowels indicate a long vowel (there is an emphasis on the syllable). Double consonants are "hard"; again it's a change in emphasis, though it's more subtle. Like the difference in pronunciation between "Bret" and "Brett," or in Japanese between "doko" and "mokkori."

Also, "Ened" would have the emphasis on the first syllable (EN-ed), whereas "Enedd" has the emphasis on the second syllable (e-NED).

So Naam is pronounced like "name" in English? Wow, that's not at all how I heard it in my head. I don't think I ever say or hear a difference between Bret and Brett (really?) and the Japanese example is totally lost on me. But thanks for trying to explain it to me.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
cacambo43 wrote:
So Naam is pronounced like "name" in English? Wow, that's not at all how I heard it in my head. I don't think I ever say or hear a difference between Bret and Brett (really?) and the Japanese example is totally lost on me. But thanks for trying to explain it to me.

CJSF


I understood it's exactly opposite - "name" in IPA is spelled like [neim], correct? "Naam" should thus be [na:m], where the double-A sounds like the a in "car", no?


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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
It's a collision of matter in normal space; once back in normal space, the matter/energy doesn't leave normal space again. Because momentum is retained, this is a very energetic high-velocity collision; an impact at ~3,000 km/s will heat matter to fusion temperatures, and so the jumping object is violently destroyed, though the core of the planet or star that is hit is unlikely to be significantly affected.

I'm asking this because I've read somewhere (I can't remember where) about a very interesting terraforming approach. Basically in this book they hyper-jumped a planetoid inside Mars I think. This would serve 3 purposes:
- increase it's mass and surface gravity
- warm it up and melt the icecaps
- liquify the core and jumpstart the planet' magnetic field

I guess in your setting this would be impossible due to retained momentum. Or could an advanced civilization negate the inertia upon re-emergence and thus fuse the planetoid into the planet's core? This would certainly be more interesting then the MOO2 approach of a gravity generator and a radiation shield. A metal poor planet with no magnetic field or/and a planet thats too light to retain an atmosphere could be made habitable indefinitely.

Arioch wrote:
Yes, that's more or less what inertial dampers do, though they decrease inertia rather than mass. The Umiak plastron field is their counterpart to the floater drive, and it works on the reverse principle, decreasing the inertia of the entire vessel rather than increasing the inertia of the propellant; this also has the added advantage of reducing the effect of kinetic hits to the hull.

This question sprung up after I've read this book over the weekend. Despite being somewhat cliche-ridden, they had one interesting idea about weapons. Missiles would be equipped with a special generator that was able to partially "blend out" its mass. The missle could then reach speeds of about 0.7 c. Shortly before impact, however, the generator would reverse this field in order to increase the mass of the impactor. But I guess this wouldn't work in your universe.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
entity2636 wrote:
cacambo43 wrote:
So Naam is pronounced like "name" in English? Wow, that's not at all how I heard it in my head. I don't think I ever say or hear a difference between Bret and Brett (really?) and the Japanese example is totally lost on me. But thanks for trying to explain it to me.

I understood it's exactly opposite - "name" in IPA is spelled like [neim], correct? "Naam" should thus be [na:m], where the double-A sounds like the a in "car", no?

Vowels in Loroi Trade don't change tone according to the accompanying consonants as they sometimes do in English; Loroi 'a' is always pronounced like 'a' in 'father', never like 'ā' as in 'name' or 'plane'. The 'aa' is just given more emphasis and vocalized longer, as in 'Bataan.'

Cthulhu wrote:
I'm asking this because I've read somewhere (I can't remember where) about a very interesting terraforming approach. Basically in this book they hyper-jumped a planetoid inside Mars I think. This would serve 3 purposes:
- increase it's mass and surface gravity
- warm it up and melt the icecaps
- liquify the core and jumpstart the planet' magnetic field

The amount of energy required to redirect and accelerate a planetoid to proper jump vector and then to propel it into hyperspace is simply orders of magnitude beyond what is practical at even the highest tech levels available in Outsider. And while hitting the largest mass in a well (the star) is pretty easy, hitting a planet (accurately, at least) is not quite so straightforward. It would be much cheaper and more reliable just to slam the planetoid into the planet normally; the effect would be pretty much the same. Any planetoid massive enough to significantly increase the target planet's mass and surface gravity would almost certainly splinter the target planet if it impacted at 3,000 km/s.

Even if you could somehow teleport the planetoid into the planet's core without a velocity differential, the titanic amount of energy that such a displacement of mass would create would surely cause seismic upheavals and vulcanism sufficient to destroy most any habitation on the surface.

Cthulhu wrote:
This question sprung up after I've read this book over the weekend. Despite being somewhat cliche-ridden, they had one interesting idea about weapons. Missiles would be equipped with a special generator that was able to partially "blend out" its mass. The missle could then reach speeds of about 0.7 c. Shortly before impact, however, the generator would reverse this field in order to increase the mass of the impactor. But I guess this wouldn't work in your universe.

This is essentially the propulsion technology used in the Lensman series. In that case, the field makes the generating ship completely inertialess, allowing for essentially infinite velocity (since the author also completely ignored the effects of general relativity).

In Outsider, both the Floater and Plastron fields are limited in how much they can amplify or dampen inertia; otherwise, both side's ships would be able to instantly accelerate to near-lightspeed. Also, neither type of generator has the capability to "reverse" the field from damping to amplification.

The issue that occurs to me in the example that you mention is: if the missiles have this capability, then it seems to me that the ships should have it too, eliminating the comparative advantage.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
The amount of energy required to redirect and accelerate a planetoid to proper jump vector and then to propel it into hyperspace is simply orders of magnitude beyond what is practical at the highest tech levels. And while hitting the largest mass in a well (the star) is pretty easy, hitting a planet (accurately, at least) is not quite so straightforward. It would be much cheaper and more reliable just to slam the planetoid into the planet normally; the effect would be pretty much the same. Any planetoid massive enough to increase the target planet's mass and surface gravity would almost certainly destroy the target planet if it impacted at 3,000 km/s.

The point was to speed up terraforming of an already settled Mars. While causing tectonic activity, it wasn't fatal. Simply bombarding it with asteroids and other stellar bodies up to the point where the entire planet will melt would obviously kill anything. The planet would then need millenia to cool down. Oh well, radiation shield and gravity generator it is, then. By the way, do the civilizations in Outsider have the technology nessesary for those? Or would that be highly impractical?

Arioch wrote:
This is essentially the propulsion technology used in the Lensman series. In that case, the field makes the generating ship completely inertialess, allowing for essentially infinite velocity (since the author also completely ignored the effects of general relativity).

In Outsider, both the Floater and Plastron fields are limited in how much they can amplify or dampen inertia; otherwise, both side's ships would be able to instantly accelerate to near-lightspeed. Also, neither type of generator has the capability to "reverse" the field from damping to amplification.

The issue that occurs to me in the example that you mention is: if the missiles have this capability, then it seems to me that the ships should have it too, eliminating the comparative advantage.

Not quite. In this Odyssey universe the efficiency of those nullifying generators is tied to the mass it's affecting. A small missile can have its mass almost completely negated, while a ship can only reduce it by a half or even just a third for big ones. After that even the primitive hydrogen/oxygen chemical drives they use can propel the ship at significant speeds, the drives are not reactionless. The "aliens" are quite baffled by the mix of high and low-tech on human ships, by the way.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Cthulhu wrote:
Oh well, radiation shield and gravity generator it is, then. By the way, do the civilizations in Outsider have the technology nessesary for those? Or would that be highly impractical?

A radiation shield is doable, because it doesn't have to cover the entire planet; it just needs to be positioned between the planet and the star. Some kind of generating station at the Lagrange-1 orbit could do the trick. This actually a real plan to deal with the inevitable future brightening of our own Sun.

A gravity generator seems more gamey and far-fetched, at least in terms of one that affects a whole planet. I can see some settings which have artificial gravity in which ground installations could be fitted with the same mechanisms that ships use, but it would only affect those structures. I'm not sure whether this makes sense in Outsider, as I think that artificial gravity in Outsider is really more of a trick of the inertial dampers and the ship's acceleration.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
entity2636 wrote:
cacambo43 wrote:
So Naam is pronounced like "name" in English? Wow, that's not at all how I heard it in my head. I don't think I ever say or hear a difference between Bret and Brett (really?) and the Japanese example is totally lost on me. But thanks for trying to explain it to me.

CJSF


I understood it's exactly opposite - "name" in IPA is spelled like [neim], correct? "Naam" should thus be [na:m], where the double-A sounds like the a in "car", no?


I misunderstood the use of "long vowel" in this context. In grade school we called the vowels like a in name or i in bite as "long vowels" vs. "short" vowels, like ham or bit. I sort of understand now. Although perhaps it's my melded (non)dialect that started from New England and worked through central Appalachia and points south that doesn't hear (or say) a difference between "Bataan" and "Batan". But I get it, thanks.

CJSF


Wed May 16, 2018 2:34 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
hi hi

Quote:
The point was to speed up terraforming of an already settled Mars. While causing tectonic activity, it wasn't fatal.
That is pretty incredible.

If you were to jump Ceres into the center of Mars, you would increase the surface gravity from 3.711 m/s^2 to 3.718 m/s^2, assuming the planet stayed the same diameter. A gain of .007 m/s^2, or .0007136 g.

However, if you assume that the interior material of Mars politely moves out of the way for Ceres, the average planetary radius would increase from 3389.95 kilometers to 3392.86 kilometers. That's a sudden increase in altitude of 2.91 kilometers!

Tectonic activity is an understatement! :P

(I'm not even sure how to start calculating the energy that would be released if the interior material didn't politely move out of the way and instead fused to create heavier elements. Back of the napkin estimates, based on the per kilogram energy released by hydrogen+boron fusion, suggests that if .005% of the mass of Ceres were to fuse, it would produce more than enough energy to reduce Mars to a cloud of gravel.)


Wed May 16, 2018 2:58 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
icekatze wrote:
hi hi

Quote:
The point was to speed up terraforming of an already settled Mars. While causing tectonic activity, it wasn't fatal.
That is pretty incredible.

If you were to jump Ceres into the center of Mars, you would increase the surface gravity from 3.711 m/s^2 to 3.718 m/s^2, assuming the planet stayed the same diameter. A gain of .007 m/s^2, or .0007136 g.

However, if you assume that the interior material of Mars politely moves out of the way for Ceres, the average planetary radius would increase from 3389.95 kilometers to 3392.86 kilometers. That's a sudden increase in altitude of 2.91 kilometers!

Tectonic activity is an understatement! :P

(I'm not even sure how to start calculating the energy that would be released if the interior material didn't politely move out of the way and instead fused to create heavier elements. Back of the napkin estimates, based on the per kilogram energy released by hydrogen+boron fusion, suggests that if .005% of the mass of Ceres were to fuse, it would produce more than enough energy to reduce Mars to a cloud of gravel.)


This one kind of touches on the topic:

Expanding Earth


Wed May 16, 2018 4:19 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Okay, I remembered where I had this idea from. It sprung up during a discussion on some Stargate forums way back when the show aired. We discussed the most recent episode, where they hyper-jumped an asteroid through Earth in order to avoid a collision.
Somebody came up with the idea to do the same with Mars, but exit hyperspace inside of it for the aforementioned reasons. Then we calculated that a single large asteroid would pop the planet like a water magma baloon. Therefore a constant stream of smaller ones would be needed. This approach would still take a century or so to accomplish and consume an incredible number of hyperspace cores. Which would be a huge waste of time and resources. Even terraforming Venus would be easier, since it already had appropriate gravity. It seems like there's no practical way (even in sci-fi terms) for a Mars terraforming project which would also adapt it's insufficient gravity.

Anyway, in order to get back on topic, a couple of questions:

1. As a rule of thumb, are all of the high-tech civilizations that advanced because of the head start provided by ancient artifacts (be it Soia, Dreiman or even their own, dating back before a catastrophic orbital bombardment set them back) or contacts with other races? Are there any civs on pair with the major empires which have developed all or most of their tech on their own?
2. Considering that humanity had no artifacts to learn from and didn't meet other civilizations to trade techs, how fast does it advance compared to other civilizations?
3. Just how pacifist are the Barsam? Considering that the Union is hard-pressed right now, would they sent ships and maybe ground troops to assist in defense? Do they have any ground troops and warships worth commiting? Would the Loroi ask for or accept such assistance?

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Thu May 17, 2018 11:22 am
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