Well of Souls Forums

entity2636 wrote:I may be wrong, but isn't it so that, when symbols are used to describe discrete sounds or syllables, as in European and Arabic alphabets, the script generally becomes cursive and flowing as to facilitate fast and smooth writing (basically you have to write down sound as you hear or speak it), but when symbols stand for concepts as in East Asian, ancient Egyptian and other scripts, the script consists of discrete and often complicated hieroglyphs?

No. Korean hangul and Japanese hiragana and katakana are syllabic rather than symbolic, and they don't run together as in Western cursive scripts. The shapes of the characters just don't facilitate this. This doesn't seem to be a problem for them.

icekatze wrote:It is my understanding, from the way Han logograms are typed on a keyboard, that they are more like compound letters than they are unique symbols. Each symbol is made up of a few recognizable strokes.

This is true, but (as I understand it) they are purely phonetic rather than symbolic, unlike Chinese characters.

I think there are enough languages where the characters don't blend together (even where each character merely represents a syllable instead of a full word) that it shouldn't be out of the question for Loroi/Trade to be so. Tamil is another example of such a language, and the characters in it definitely do represent just syllables - in fact you literally can't blend them together because the "wisps" that connect characters together in cursive writing are used instead to denote other information so one would literally be writing a different character all together if a character flowed/connected too well into the next.

Anyway, I'm curious about just how intricate the characters are. One common "theme" in written human language seems to be that each character only takes one or two strokes to write, most of which are very simple; this is certainly the case for all the letters in the Latin alphabet. I think the more complicated shapes show up mainly in languages where each character has to convey the meaning of a full word instead of just a syllable. I mean, look at that symbol on the last row+last column, bet that's a real pain in the ass to write... and given only 16 characters, probably shows up often enough too.

Is it just a "rule of cool" type thing, or is there a reason for it being so intricate?

Don't get me wrong, normally I wouldn't even think of asking something like this, but what I find really cool about the outsider universe is just how much effort you put into world building.

Vyrnie wrote:Anyway, I'm curious about just how intricate the characters are. One common "theme" in written human language seems to be that each character only takes one or two strokes to write, most of which are very simple; this is certainly the case for all the letters in the Latin alphabet. I think the more complicated shapes show up mainly in languages where each character has to convey the meaning of a full word instead of just a syllable. I mean, look at that symbol on the last row+last column, bet that's a real pain in the ass to write... and given only 16 characters, probably shows up often enough too.

Is it just a "rule of cool" type thing, or is there a reason for it being so intricate?

The primary consideration in the creation of the characters was that they should be instantly recognizable as alien to the reader, and so distinctly different from the Roman alphabet and any other common symbols that the reader would be familiar with. This means that many of the most simple shapes are not available; by necessity, the script needs to be a little bit more complex. However, it's really not all that complex; almost all of the characters can be written with 3 or 4 strokes, the exception being "S" which requires 6.

In-universe, the script is a high-tech standardized version of an alphabet that is based on an ancient ultra-tech version, that is being used by a society that is not exceptionally literate but is highly concerned with aesthetics and tradition. There are a lot of available explanations for why this may not be the most efficient possible script for handwriting.

Why is the interior of the Loroi ship here: http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider048.html so sheer?
Maybe it's a trick of the angle, but that looks like a very steep climb, considering they're walking on what seems like a slippery floor with flat-soled shoes, so it looks like stairs would be more useful and safe. (And possibly easier on the ankles)

I suppose its easier to move something on wheels up and down the corridor in this case, but then why not have both stairs and a trolley section?

On a ship with artificial gravity, this may be less relevant than you think.
The gravity can be tweaked if heavy stuff is moved to make the moving of that stuff easier.

For the crew it's a good way for their training exercises. Going up and down slopes is a tad more difficult than just running flat corridors.


Otherwise it is rule of cool. It just makes the ship look very spacious, more so than any Human engineer in the current state of technology would allow a corridor to have, thus emphasizing that this is an alien ship.

boldilocks wrote:Why is the interior of the Loroi ship here: http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider048.html so sheer?
Maybe it's a trick of the angle, but that looks like a very steep climb, considering they're walking on what seems like a slippery floor with flat-soled shoes, so it looks like stairs would be more useful and safe. (And possibly easier on the ankles)

Since this is the corridor that goes to the main bridge, I'd see it as a defensive structure in case of boarding, a killbox sort of thing where security officers can take positions on top but the boarders would have to fight a considerable distance "up the hill" with no cover to get to the bridge and be easy targets. This slope is followed by a closed room (with the fresco) that has a balcony - another very well defendable area.

It seems to me that flat ramps are much less of a hazard to ankles than stairs. Hospitals tend to use ramps for precisely this reason. Presumably the corridors are so wide because they need to move large stuff through there, so I don't think you'd want to choke half of it off with unnecessary stairs. Stairs are quite specialized, whereas ramps are cargo and robot and alien friendly.

I thought Hospitals used ramps because it let them roll beds up them.
Also, I can see someone with a busted ankle finding it easier to walk up a ramp, but if the ramp is so steep that you're gonna be swiveling your ankle back and forth as you take a step up it, it seems like it'd be more of a hinder than not, but I don't really know.

hi hi

As far as building code goes, hospitals have a 4.8 degree maximum incline on permanent ramps, and a 9.6 degree maximum on portable ramps. However, as far as the military is concerned, I've seen as much as 20 degree inclines on cargo plane loading ramps.

Luge wrote:

Arioch wrote:The equipment lists in the characters sheets are items that the characters might be equipped with, rather than a list of all their personal effects (though I suppose that would be an interesting exercise). Fireblade for example doesn't own any weapons. She has a small pouch that is on her right leg when she's in her duty uniform, and which is on her left hip in the combat armor.

That makes sense. 21st century military personnel on duty don't generally "own" their weaponry either. Rather, they draw suitable weapons for their role and training from an armoury.

L.

Not usually yes but I guess they do sometimes. Disregarding weapons, I saw a post made by a real soldier at some board where he gave examples of stuff in his active outfit that he had got himself, own equipment and that was a lot. I guess this is allowed to an extent as long as it does not impede the ability to carry the stuff you are supposed to carry. And as a sidenote, when I did my then mandatory tour of duty training for nine months I carried a personal belt knife rather then the one I was given and there was no problem (not that I would consider that one a weapon). Historically, sometimes armies have been so badly equipped that recruits where flat out asked to bring their own gun since it was bound to be better then whatever the army could offer.

Yeah, I bought some stuff on my own because the army didn't provide for them when I was drafted. Everyone got mainly underwear and shocks but I did get a compass, a weapon cleaning kit and some face paint. Some officers had bought some peripherals for their rifles as well.

What's the tolerable temperature range for Loroi -- bare to the elements and no windchill, since clothing expands on that sort of thing dramatically.

Sweforce wrote:

Luge wrote:

Arioch wrote:The equipment lists in the characters sheets are items that the characters might be equipped with, rather than a list of all their personal effects (though I suppose that would be an interesting exercise). Fireblade for example doesn't own any weapons. She has a small pouch that is on her right leg when she's in her duty uniform, and which is on her left hip in the combat armor.

That makes sense. 21st century military personnel on duty don't generally "own" their weaponry either. Rather, they draw suitable weapons for their role and training from an armoury.

L.

Not usually yes but I guess they do sometimes. Disregarding weapons, I saw a post made by a real soldier at some board where he gave examples of stuff in his active outfit that he had got himself, own equipment and that was a lot. I guess this is allowed to an extent as long as it does not impede the ability to carry the stuff you are supposed to carry. And as a sidenote, when I did my then mandatory tour of duty training for nine months I carried a personal belt knife rather then the one I was given and there was no problem (not that I would consider that one a weapon). Historically, sometimes armies have been so badly equipped that recruits where flat out asked to bring their own gun since it was bound to be better then whatever the army could offer.

I know that when I was in, my unit would allow us to purchase a firearm of our own, we just had to keep it in the armory when not in use, but as far as training and qualifications we still had to certify using the basic equipment everyone else was issued. No purchasing advantages at the firing range.

CF2 wrote:What's the tolerable temperature range for Loroi -- bare to the elements and no windchill, since clothing expands on that sort of thing dramatically.

It's very similar to the human range. The Loroi have a lower baseline temperature, but the limits at the extremes are mostly the same.

Arioch wrote:

CF2 wrote:What's the tolerable temperature range for Loroi -- bare to the elements and no windchill, since clothing expands on that sort of thing dramatically.

It's very similar to the human range. The Loroi have a lower baseline temperature, but the limits at the extremes are mostly the same.

Why is the bridge of Tempest so cold? Alex remarks on it that it even pricked his nostrils and he seems to be shivering. Is the Loroi armor/uniform compensating, and there's a good reason for the bridge to be so cold? The rest of the ship doesn't seem to be that cold - Alex is effectively in his underwear in his holding cell.

CJSF

cacambo43 wrote:

Arioch wrote:

CF2 wrote:What's the tolerable temperature range for Loroi -- bare to the elements and no windchill, since clothing expands on that sort of thing dramatically.

It's very similar to the human range. The Loroi have a lower baseline temperature, but the limits at the extremes are mostly the same.

Why is the bridge of Tempest so cold? Alex remarks on it that it even pricked his nostrils and he seems to be shivering. Is the Loroi armor/uniform compensating, and there's a good reason for the bridge to be so cold? The rest of the ship doesn't seem to be that cold - Alex is effectively in his underwear in his holding cell.

CJSF

Comfortable human temperature is around 26 to 27 degrees Celsius, that's where we work best without sweating too much and that's where Loroi body temperature is.

If the Loroi have a similar preference of working best in lower temperatures then their ideal would be 16 to 17 degrees Celsius. Cold enough for humans to notice but not too cold. Following the same logic temperatures at the 26 to 27 range could be non ideal to the Loroi, not in the same way that 36 to 37 degrees are to humans since we are getting close to heat stroke territory at those ranges, especially for people who are not used to them.

If the 26 to 27 range is only slightly uncomfortable for Loroi then it would make sense that the Brig and holding cells would be at that range. As a form of punishment and not hot enough to put the prisoners in danger of getting a heat stroke like we would be if the ambient temperature was that high.

This implies that Soia Liron biochemistry is both very efficient but also very resilient if it is able to work efficiently at ranges that are a good 10 to 15 degrees above and below their natural body temperature.

Most Loroi are accustomed to a colder climate (and dress accordingly); normal shipboard room temperature is around 50-60°F or 10-15°C. It's not quite cold enough that you can see your breath, but it's noticeably cold to most humans.

Would loroi have marching band music or would that be unneccesary for them? (Ie, if they have parades or to keep morale up like the british or other militiaries did when marching and firing in lines?)

boldilocks wrote:Would loroi have marching band music or would that be unneccesary for them? (Ie, if they have parades or to keep morale up like the british or other militiaries did when marching and firing in lines?)

They probably have several styles of music that evolved from battlefield signaling (originally drums and horns, mostly).

Are there psychic arts in Loroi culture? Poetry, music, painting, or interpretive dance? Or if it is sensed in a kinetic fashion, artistic massage?