Well of Souls Forums

Love the understatement in this and the last couple of pages.

Moon Moth wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:04 pm

Is there any particular advantage that the Loroi would gain from capturing this Umiak ship intact?

I'm assuming no, because the conflict is big enough and has been going on for long enough that each side should have working examples of all major enemy technology, just from scavenging after battles where they won. And the bottleneck is in reverse-engineering and mass-producing the technology. Although, granted that the Loroi have the Historians providing technology that's too advanced for the Loroi to reproduce, perhaps Umiak technology might be more comprehensible, being designed by a civilization closer in tech level (and perhaps not deliberately made incomprehensible)?

I think that being able to capture an enemy vessel intact will always be a treasure trove of intelligence information. Logs, codes, maps, orders, information on weapons loadouts and configurations, records of crew behavior and morale, information about what's going on behind enemy lines, etc.

(Though of course this particular Loroi boarding party is just hoping to use the ship to escape.)

Moon Moth wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:04 pm

And given how different the Loroi and Umiak are, and the difficulties translating between their languages, I'm guessing that Loroi using a captured Umiak ship for infiltration would be basically impossible, unless it happened to come with a few mind-controlled Umiak crew as well?

Arioch wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:30 am

I think that being able to capture an enemy vessel intact will always be a treasure trove of intelligence information. Logs, codes, maps, orders, information on weapons loadouts and configurations, records of crew behavior and morale, information about what's going on behind enemy lines, etc.

*slaps forehead* Duh, I should have thought of that. It might even have a working example of the Umiak's telepathic shield, or at least information about the general parameters, since it's part of an invasion fleet that uses it.

Arioch wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:30 am

Moon Moth wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:04 pm

And given how different the Loroi and Umiak are, and the difficulties translating between their languages, I'm guessing that Loroi using a captured Umiak ship for infiltration would be basically impossible, unless it happened to come with a few mind-controlled Umiak crew as well?

o_O

Moon Moth wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:04 pm

Is there any particular advantage that the Loroi would gain from capturing this Umiak ship intact?

I think they are hoping to be able to sneak throuh the Umiak lines with it and back to safety.

My honest reaction to this information:

Glad I'm not the only person thinking about Hunt for Red October with this page.

Presumably, the Loroi would gain a free sample of the Umiak lotai technology (unless the Umiak managed to destroy it first).

Reminds me of when that Soviet pilot flew his Mig-25 to Japan. US Intelligence had a field day. That was when they discovered it was made out of steel, and not aircraft aluminum.

Demarquis wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:52 am

Reminds me of when that Soviet pilot flew his Mig-25 to Japan. US Intelligence had a field day. That was when they discovered it was made out of steel, and not aircraft aluminum.

That was a case where the Western engineers were disappointed... the MiG-25 had been hyped up as a super-fighter, and they learned that it was actually much less capable than they had thought.

It turned out to be a flying vacuum cleaner! Yet still exceptionally useful to know.

Arioch wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 03, 2023 7:00 pm

projekcja wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 03, 2023 6:44 pm

That brings up an important point - why is Beryl so sure the area is clear just because she can't sense minds, might there not be automated or robotic defences without minds?

Would you put automated weaponry... in the place where you store your torpedoes?

Absolutely. I restrict the fireing arcs thou to prevent them from hitting the stored munitions. For extra safety I make the limiters mechanical to make sure that they still cannot hit the munition even someone hacks in the control system. I have seen pictures of aircraft where, lets say if a gunner can shoot parts of their own plane, some will. Typically that would be the tail rudder when trying to shoot at an enemy behind them.

Sweforce wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:23 pm

Absolutely. I restrict the fireing arcs thou to prevent them from hitting the stored munitions.

Ricochet/bouncers?

Demarquis wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:52 am

Reminds me of when that Soviet pilot flew his Mig-25 to Japan. US Intelligence had a field day. That was when they discovered it was made out of steel, and not aircraft aluminum.

Duraluminium was not an option for Foxbat due to atmospheric thermal effects at it's maximum velocities. It was either steel or titanium, and titanium was not really an option for the main PVO jet that USSR could expect to make in hundreds, plus it would make it unexportable to USSR's satellites, which severely lack the necessary expertise for titanium air frame maintenance even today, much less 50 years ago.

Arioch wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:58 am

That was a case where the Western engineers were disappointed... the MiG-25 had been hyped up as a super-fighter, and they learned that it was actually much less capable than they had thought.

NPIC reports of the photographed airframes were presenting it as a possible drastic shift in the Soviet air force doctrine towards a more maneuverable, general purpose fighter, which threatened the F-15 project, conceived with an entirely different opposition in mind, but those were taken with a huge pile of salt by Pentagon, as it already had intel on the deployment strategy of MiG-25s, which strongly mirrored that of old Flagons, not exactly indicating a drastic shift in doctrine. Still, it was a relief that Foxbat turned out to be exactly what it seemed - a replacement bomber-chaser interceptor for the sorry stopgap crutch that was Su-15.

And, as I recall, it could only reach its advertised top speed of Mach 3+ by burning out its engines.

Arioch wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 25, 2023 11:52 pm

And, as I recall, it could only reach its advertised top speed of Mach 3+ by burning out its engines.

That´s for the initial Tumanski R-15B like on the one Belenko flew, which still had an impressive Mach 2,83 sustained top speed. (Alas, "sustained" means ~20 minutes until out of fuel...)
The versions equipped with R-15BD from 1977 on do not have that problem.

I always wondered if it would have made any sense for them to have turned it into an air to ground strike aircraft. It might have given them some flexibility they didn't have.

You cannot "turn" a high altitude interceptor into a ground attack aircraft. That would be a totally different machine then.

Mk_C wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 25, 2023 11:33 pm

Still, it was a relief that Foxbat turned out to be exactly what it seemed - a replacement bomber-chaser interceptor for the sorry stopgap crutch that was Su-15.

Su-15's had an excellent record shooting down civilian Korean airliners, 2 for 2!

Afaik MIG-25 was moreso one of those things that was really cool on a technical level but otherwise not that great of a jet. AFAIK it still gets used for atmospheric research quite a bit due to its flight ceiling.

Regarding multirole, they do launch certain air to ground missiles from Mig-31s.

D-503 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 26, 2023 2:35 am

You cannot "turn" a high altitude interceptor into a ground attack aircraft. That would be a totally different machine then.

Why not? It just requires mounting a different kind of missile.